WiFi 6 mesh with WiFi 5 router

[IAmAFrenchFry]

Pretty simple: If I have WiFi 6 mesh network hub things but a WiFi 5 router, can I still use the WiFi 6 capabilities of the mesh network? Thanks.

[RMerlin]

In general, it will depend on which AP your client connect to.  They will use the standard supported by the node they connect to.

 

Your backhaul however (if wireless) will be limited to Wifi 5.

[IAmAFrenchFry]

1 hour ago, RMerlin said:

In general, it will depend on which AP your client connect to.  They will use the standard supported by the node they connect to.

My mesh network doesn’t have multiple SSIDs for different APs, so will they all use the same standard? And would the “node they connect to,” be the router, each other, does it depend, etc.?

[IAmAFrenchFry]

Additionally,

2 hours ago, RMerlin said:

Your backhaul however (if wireless) will be limited to Wifi 5.

I don’t understand what you mean by this.

[Alex Atkin UK]

22 hours ago, IAmAFrenchFry said:

Pretty simple: If I have WiFi 6 mesh network hub things but a WiFi 5 router, can I still use the WiFi 6 capabilities of the mesh network? Thanks.

If you have a separate WiFi 6 mesh network with multiple hubs then generally you'd turn off WiFi on your router so the mesh can handle everything.

[IAmAFrenchFry]

1 hour ago, Alex Atkin UK said:

If you have a separate WiFi 6 mesh network with multiple hubs then generally you'd turn off WiFi on your router so the mesh can handle everything.

Would that mean I would have to let the mesh do the routing? And If so, could I still use the ports on my router to connect to my modem and switch? Or how would that work? Could you give me a network map of some sort?

[RMerlin]

20 hours ago, IAmAFrenchFry said:

Additionally,

I don’t understand what you mean by this.

 

How is your Mesh system connected to your main router?  If the main router (Wifi 5) is connected with the Mesh system (Wifi 6) over Wifi, then the speed of that main link will be limited to Wifi 5 performance - the slowest of the two ends of the link.

[AngryBeaver]

This is such a complicated question to be honest. There are a lot of factors that come in to play. So for example a lot of the things on wifi 6 are supported on high end wifi 5 routers... Mimo, beamforming, etc. Now WPA3.. might not be on them, but depending on what features you are concerned about it really just depends on what features the wifi 5 router had.

 

If you want to full take advantage of the wifi 6 features, you might as well just get a new router that supports those items. 

[RMerlin]

It depends how his system is set up.  It might make more sense to just disable the Wifi on the main router and use the mesh system to cover the area near to that router for example, to ensure centralized client management.  You generally wouldn't want to mix up mesh and non-mesh APs, as it might prevent roaming from working properly.

 

We`ll need more info as to how everything is setup first.

[AngryBeaver]

2 minutes ago, RMerlin said:

It depends how his system is set up.  It might make more sense to just disable the Wifi on the main router and use the mesh system to cover the area near to that router for example, to ensure centralized client management.  You generally wouldn't want to mix up mesh and non-mesh APs, as it might prevent roaming from working properly.

 

We`ll need more info as to how everything is setup first.

Another good suggestion. If the hubs have one main that can function as a router/firewall... then taking the wifi 5 router out of the equation would be best. If you need the ports on it and the wifi 6 hubs have one with a ethernet port then you could use the router for firewall/wired connections and disable the wifi to let the wifi 6 mesh system handle that.

 

Now depending on the features on those devices you might need to disable the firewall/dhcp on them to avoid issues and/or create a double NAT scenario.

[IAmAFrenchFry]

On 8/14/2020 at 9:36 AM, RMerlin said:

How is your Mesh system connected to your main router?  If the main router (Wifi 5) is connected with the Mesh system (Wifi 6) over Wifi, then the speed of that main link will be limited to Wifi 5 performance - the slowest of the two ends of the link.

The APs are/would be connected to the network via Ethernet.

 

On 8/14/2020 at 9:48 AM, AngryBeaver said:

If you need the ports on it and the wifi 6 hubs have one with a ethernet port then you could use the router for firewall/wired connections and disable the wifi to let the wifi 6 mesh system handle that.

I respond with something I said earlier:

 

On 8/13/2020 at 5:52 PM, IAmAFrenchFry said:

Would that mean I would have to let the mesh do the routing? And If so, could I still use the ports on my router to connect to my modem and switch? Or how would that work?

 

 

Sorry for the late response!

[AngryBeaver]

3 hours ago, IAmAFrenchFry said:

The APs are/would be connected to the network via Ethernet.

 

I respond with something I said earlier:

 

 

 

Sorry for the late response!

So look at it like this. You have a plain router without wifi(you will disable it). Now a lot of these hubs have a main unit which can be used as thr router/firewall/dhcp... if it didn't then these wouldn't be able to operate when plugged in to your modem.

 

Since you want your main router to handle everything like routing (nat), firewall, and passing out ip addresses (dhcp) you will want to disable those features on the mesh network or you create a network with 2 of everything.

 

So for example you have 68.8.8 8 as your external ip from your isp, then it hits your router which assigns anything on it an ip of 192.x.x.x... now since you are in double nat the hub system is assigned a 192.x.x.x ip , but then assigns a 10.x.x.x ip to anything connected to it.

 

This means wired devices cannot communicate with your wireless ones and vice versa.. it also means that anything on wifi that needs an open port will need to negotiate for it twice depending on setup.

 

Another solution if the above sounds overly complicated is to just buy a 5 or so port gigabit switch.

 

Then if your hub is like most you will plug in your modems connection (wan)then have an extra port (lan) you could plug the switch in to allow both wired and wireless connections with only the hub acting as firewall,dhcp, etc

[IAmAFrenchFry]

On 8/15/2020 at 4:23 PM, AngryBeaver said:

So look at it like this. You have a plain router without wifi(you will disable it). Now a lot of these hubs have a main unit which can be used as thr router/firewall/dhcp... if it didn't then these wouldn't be able to operate when plugged in to your modem.

 

Since you want your main router to handle everything like routing (nat), firewall, and passing out ip addresses (dhcp) you will want to disable those features on the mesh network or you create a network with 2 of everything.

 

So for example you have 68.8.8 8 as your external ip from your isp, then it hits your router which assigns anything on it an ip of 192.x.x.x... now since you are in double nat the hub system is assigned a 192.x.x.x ip , but then assigns a 10.x.x.x ip to anything connected to it.

 

This means wired devices cannot communicate with your wireless ones and vice versa.. it also means that anything on wifi that needs an open port will need to negotiate for it twice depending on setup.

 

Another solution if the above sounds overly complicated is to just buy a 5 or so port gigabit switch.

 

Then if your hub is like most you will plug in your modems connection (wan)then have an extra port (lan) you could plug the switch in to allow both wired and wireless connections with only the hub acting as firewall,dhcp, etc

I guess I should’ve been more clear about my why. I want a multi-gig, wifi 6 mesh network, but I can’t find any with multi-gig lan ports (only wan). So I wanted to get a multi-gig router that didn’t have to be wifi 6 and connect it to a wifi 6 mesh system. This would give me multi-gig lan and WAN, and i was wondering i of this was possible with WifI 6.

[Alex Atkin UK]

2 hours ago, IAmAFrenchFry said:

I guess I should’ve been more clear about my why. I want a multi-gig, wifi 6 mesh network, but I can’t find any with multi-gig lan ports (only wan). So I wanted to get a multi-gig router that didn’t have to be wifi 6 and connect it to a wifi 6 mesh system. This would give me multi-gig lan and WAN, and i was wondering i of this was possible with WifI 6.

What are you using the multi-gig for, because generally you'd just want to get a multi-gig switch.

[AngryBeaver]

15 minutes ago, Alex Atkin UK said:

What are you using the multi-gig for, because generally you'd just want to get a multi-gig switch.

And on top of this most consumer grade routers have only 1 lan side multi gig port. So if you are talking multiple devices you will still need a multi gig switch which aren't cheap either. Then you need to have NICs that support those multi-gig speeds. So unless you have a multi gig internet connection or a scenario where you need multi-gig lan side this is mostly pointless... and any of the new high end routers (which you will need) with multi gig should also have wifi 6.

[IAmAFrenchFry]

On 8/17/2020 at 2:39 PM, Alex Atkin UK said:

What are you using the multi-gig for, because generally you'd just want to get a multi-gig switch.

 

On 8/17/2020 at 2:58 PM, AngryBeaver said:

And on top of this most consumer grade routers have only 1 lan side multi gig port. So if you are talking multiple devices you will still need a multi gig switch which aren't cheap either. Then you need to have NICs that support those multi-gig speeds. So unless you have a multi gig internet connection or a scenario where you need multi-gig lan side this is mostly pointless... and any of the new high end routers (which you will need) with multi gig should also have wifi 6.

I realize I need a multi-gig switch. That switch has to connect to a LAN port. If the LAN port is not multi-gig there is no point (i think) in getting a multi-gig switch. That’s why I was asking if I could use the mesh with a router that doesn’t necessarily have WiFi 6.

[Alex Atkin UK]

On 8/20/2020 at 3:31 AM, IAmAFrenchFry said:

 

I realize I need a multi-gig switch. That switch has to connect to a LAN port. If the LAN port is not multi-gig there is no point (i think) in getting a multi-gig switch. That’s why I was asking if I could use the mesh with a router that doesn’t necessarily have WiFi 6.

Depends on your layout.  My NAS and main PC go into a multi-gig switch so I can transfer files quicker between them.

I don't have WiFi 6 yet but even that is unlikely to reach let alone surpass Gigabit, which is why the router manufacturers only include multi-gig on the WAN port.  Its intended so if you had say 2Gbit FTTP, you could download at Gigabit to two clients at the same time.