ryzen 4000

[ralphandmike]

I have heard the news about zen 3 and how it is different from zen 2. my concern with this is will it be another fx chip? the reason why I am saying this is due to certain similarities in the architecture not the whole thing but certain areas where its shared or two into one things like that. my concern is will this hurt the performance of the chip and will we have another bulldozer/piledriver chip lineup on our hands? I am not too certain about what I am hearing about the new chip design so far but ill leave that up to the tech reviewer community. I just want to kind of point out my concerns about the new design coming in 2020 and how this might affect performance or something. also I think if amd can get this new lineup to be a successor to zen then ill be happy to buy the chips. my two cents if you will.

[Jurrunio]

7 minutes ago, ralphandmike said:

its shared or two into one things like that

no it's not, Zen doesnt have Bulldozer's reverse-SMT design.

[ralphandmike]

Just now, Jurrunio said:

no it's not, Zen doesnt have Bulldozer's reverse-SMT design.

maybe not but the design is similar in certain areas which if amd doesn't take care when developing it could wind up with issues in performance. I have seen some of the slides of how the cores are unified and the cache possibly as well. I just have some concerns that amd maybe be developing something like fx. I know the fx series didn't have smt so that may make a difference in performance but I am just concerned that it could wind up a mess for them if they aren't careful when developing the new design of the chips.

[Jurrunio]

3 minutes ago, ralphandmike said:

certain areas

specify them, if you can't, it's not a problem

[ralphandmike]

15 minutes ago, Jurrunio said:

specify them, if you can't, it's not a problem

ok well the new design has the cores instead of in a ccx or something like for example the 3900 has two ccx and chiplets for the cores. so the new one has a unified core design which means that the cores aren't separated. in a sense they are all on one unit or die or something. then there is the cache which is similar to the cores or something like that though I am sure that's a standard thing with cache these days as far as sharing however my concerns are more about how the pipeline would be small due to what is and what isn't shared  then there could be the changes in the infinity fabric. it was that slide that they were showing for milan for the epic chips however amd does usually do the same thing with their mainstream desktop chips which is ryzen. so if you find the slides in a video for one of the videos forryzen 4000 or zen 3 youll understand my concerns to a degree. you see I also am using fx series chips as well as ryzen and I also have seen the slides for how the fx series works so my concerns are will amd be able to change the design without affecting the whole performance gains they have already achieved in zen and maybe even increase them. I think redtech gaming and a couple of other youtube channels have given their comments on these upcoming products as zen3 is ready for next year.

[Jurrunio]

1 hour ago, ralphandmike said:

ok well the new design has the cores instead of in a ccx or something like for example the 3900 has two ccx and chiplets for the cores. so the new one has a unified core design which means that the cores aren't separated. in a sense they are all on one unit or die or something. then there is the cache which is similar to the cores or something like that though I am sure that's a standard thing with cache these days as far as sharing however my concerns are more about how the pipeline would be small due to what is and what isn't shared  then there could be the changes in the infinity fabric. it was that slide that they were showing for milan for the epic chips however amd does usually do the same thing with their mainstream desktop chips which is ryzen. so if you find the slides in a video for one of the reviewers which reviewed ryzen 4000 or zen 3 youll understand my concerns to a degree. you see I also am using fx series chips as well as ryzen and I also have seen the slides for how the fx series works so my concerns are will amd be able to change the design without affecting the whole performance gains they have already achieved in zen and maybe even increase them. I think redtech gaming and a couple of other youtube channels have reviewed these upcoming products as zen3 is ready for next year.

TLDR you dont trust the multi-die setup, am I right? If Zen 2 isnt a good example of how to get it working then I've got nothing more to say

[ralphandmike]

5 minutes ago, Jurrunio said:

TLDR you dont trust the multi-die setup, am I right? If Zen 2 isnt a good example of how to get it working then I've got nothing more to say

that's not what concerns me.my issues is the size of the pipeline being used in the new design and whether or not it will be having limitations due to the differences with the new cores and other such parts redesign.  basically what I am saying is if the redesign has anything that can bottleneck it well that is going to be an issue in performance. you see zen 2 isn't a redesign but a refresh if you will or progression in the advancement of the current architecture. the zen 3 is a completely new setup for ryzen chips. its supposed to have better overall performance and such. the new architecture is what concerns me. if you can alleviate any bottlenecks in the cpu then its going to be better overall. the gpu mainly does graphics or compute for certain functions whereas the cpu is a bit more involved in its handling of operations. 

[Jurrunio]

18 minutes ago, ralphandmike said:

you see zen 2 isn't a redesign but a refresh if you will or progression in the advancement of the current architecture.

Zen 2 counts as a new design in my book, Zen+ is the refresh

 

19 minutes ago, ralphandmike said:

the zen 3 is a completely new setup for ryzen chips. its supposed to have better overall performance and such

I dont see how it will differ from Zen 2 more than Zen 2 does from Zen+

 

20 minutes ago, ralphandmike said:

if you can alleviate any bottlenecks in the cpu then its going to be better overall. the gpu mainly does graphics or compute for certain functions whereas the cpu is a bit more involved in its handling of operations. 

That's the logic AMD has gone for with Bulldozer, CPUs focus on arithmetic operations while GPUs focus on floating pointing performance. Guess what, it worked well as custom APUs for consoles, and failed miserably anywhere else. AMD wont be stupid enough to do that again on CPUs

[ralphandmike]

Just now, Jurrunio said:

Zen 2 counts as a new design in my book, Zen+ is the refresh

 

I dont see how it will differ from Zen 2 more than Zen 2 does from Zen+

 

That's the logic AMD has gone for with Bulldozer, CPUs focus on arithmetic operations while GPUs focus on floating pointing performance. Guess what, it worked well as custom APUs for consoles, and failed miserably anywhere else. AMD wont be stupid enough to do that again on CPUs

well that's good. I am just concerned when I saw the slides of the whole redesign in a video and from my knowledge of fx and such well I really would like to believe that amd wont repeat the same mistake twice. its just if you saw a slide which had the whole redesigned architecture before you and you compared it to a older architecture you might have some concerns as well. in the slides its usually give the parts of the setup and how they work to a degree so I really am hoping amd has learned and will continue to improve their chips and overall architecture for cpus and gpus. in fact navi next year is supposed to be a total redesign of that as well. which I don't know how well navi currently does but nvidia might need to watch out for the new graphics cards.

[Jurrunio]

Just because they wont repeat the fail of Bulldozer doesnt mean they wont fail somewhere else... #mishaps_stop_happening_only_when_you_copy_and_paste #Intel

[ralphandmike]

3 minutes ago, Jurrunio said:

Just because they wont repeat the fail of Bulldozer doesnt mean they wont fail somewhere else... #mishaps_stop_happening_only_when_you_copy_and_paste #Intel

Spoiler

 

hmm....yeah I can see that. intel sure has a lot of work to do to address those issues and more for its chips.