Laptop Stuttering (Asus X412FL)

[PiberiusWilde]

;I recently got an Asus X412FL core i5 8265u, MX250, 8GB RAM, 512 GB SSD. Naturally I'm curious with it's performance, so I installed Valley benchmark medium setting at 1080p no AA. For the first few minutes it ran fine i got around ~65 FPS. It ran a hot, after it reached around 85C it lower it's power and temp reduced to around 76C and frames dropped a bit. All ran well unitl after about five minutes it stutterd hard to 8 FPS.

 

 

I have done some research on what is happening it turns out that after around the five minute mark the gpu lowers its clock from around 1450mhz to around 500mhz for a few second, then it turn back to 1450mhz. This behavior repeated every few minuttes

 

I seriously don't know what's happening here. I have tried every trick on the book the one i haven't tried is reinstalling windows because I have limited access to internet.

[5x5]

It's called overheating and thermal throttling. This is why you don't buy cheap ultrabooks for heavy workloads like gaming.

[Nord]

I'd take a look at the CPU and its clocks.

U-CPU's run on "boost" TDP's of up to double of what they are supposed to have to maintain any clock above 2.5ghz~ on stock, if the system is setup by a retard from marketing (so in 95% of all cases), this usually goes 3,4ghz -> 1,6ghz or lower -> 3,4ghz and so froth, witch in turn can reusult in your GPU downclocking cus the cpu slacks off..

[5x5]

33 minutes ago, Nord said:

I'd take a look at the CPU and its clocks.

U-CPU's run on "boost" TDP's of up to double of what they are supposed to have to maintain any clock above 2.5ghz~ on stock, if the system is setup by a retard from marketing (so in 95% of all cases), this usually goes 3,4ghz -> 1,6ghz or lower -> 3,4ghz and so froth, witch in turn can reusult in your GPU downclocking cus the cpu slacks off..

For gaming yea but on the 412 he's hitting the GPU thermal limit so the card is registering overheating and downclocking

[PiberiusWilde]

5 hours ago, 5x5 said:

It's called overheating and thermal throttling. This is why you don't buy cheap ultrabooks for heavy workloads like gaming.

C'mon man laptop pricing in Asia sucks the cheapest 'gaming' laptop here is almost double this laptop price. Besides I use this laptop for collage, so I don't want to carry a brick alll day long.

[PiberiusWilde]

7 hours ago, Nord said:

I'd take a look at the CPU and its clocks.

U-CPU's run on "boost" TDP's of up to double of what they are supposed to have to maintain any clock above 2.5ghz~ on stock, if the system is setup by a retard from marketing (so in 95% of all cases), this usually goes 3,4ghz -> 1,6ghz or lower -> 3,4ghz and so froth, witch in turn can reusult in your GPU downclocking cus the cpu slacks off..

Any idea what should I do?

[5x5]

3 hours ago, peiberius said:

C'mon man laptop pricing in Asia sucks the cheapest 'gaming' laptop here is almost double this laptop price. Besides I use this laptop for collage, so I don't want to carry a brick alll day long.

What does that have to do with anything? You bought a laptop designed for Facebook and are surprised it can't game

[Nord]

4 hours ago, peiberius said:

Any idea what should I do?

Well, first of all you should check if CPU throttling is actually the case. Use either Afterburner, HWInfo64 or HwMonitor to verify.
 

As I could not find any reviews of your device, it's still just a guess. Even though the most likely case as all 8th core U-CPU devices I’ve seen ran into this issue while the GPU (usually) stays relatively balanced and comparatively cool(ish). Never had my hands on an Asus though, only Acer, HP, Dell, Lenovo & MS Surfaces.

 

Anyway, depending on the heatsink design a cooling pad can help quiet a lot, especially if the laptop has a 1-fan/heatsink design for both the GPU & CPU.
Though that will only delay and not fix throttling in demanding cases.

Next step would be undervolting the CPU.
I would suggest starting with intel XTU to find a stable undervolt for core, cache & iGPU and afterwards ditching it for Throttlestop, as you can freely modify the CPU multiplier there.
(Guides for both are all over the internet)

Once you find a stable undervolt you should also fiddle around with the CPU multiplier in Throttlestop until you find one where your CPU does not downclock anymore. Which should be somewhere around 2,5ghz~ (Cinebench R20 is a good test for it, run 5 loops w/o breaks in between, if there is no throttling, than there won't be any in most games either)

If you don't want your battery to drain while gaming, you should also use HwMonitor to check that your CPU does not go above 15Watt power draw while adjusting the CPU multiplier, unless you got a power brick rated above 60watts.

Furthermore you could also undervolt your GPU with MSI afterburner if the CPU undervolting is not enough.

 

As I also got an i5 8250U notebook with an MX150 as a secondary device (Acer Aspire 5, 15”), I can tell you that with an undervolt of -105mv on CPU,GPU & iGPU you can run at a 4-core max clock of  2,7GHZ stable, while also reducing CPU temps by a good 10°C.
Adding a cooling pad reduces overall temps by an additional 5°C in my case as well. Personally I would suggest anything similar to this one:
https://www.amazon.com/Cooler-Master-X-SLIM-II-R9-NBC-XS2K-GP/dp/B00IFQHJDM
As long as it rises the device up, has an open top for easy airflow and a reasonable fan it should provide better temps.

If I ever get around on doing an actual video guide for all this, I’ll pm you the link.

[PiberiusWilde]

3 minutes ago, Nord said:

Well, first of all you should check if CPU throttling is actually the case. Use either Afterburner, HWInfo64 or HwMonitor to verify.
 

As I could not find any reviews of your device, it's still just a guess. Even though the most likely case as all 8th core U-CPU devices I’ve seen ran into this issue while the GPU (usually) stays relatively balanced and comparatively cool(ish). Never had my hands on an Asus though, only Acer, HP, Dell, Lenovo & MS Surfaces.

 

Anyway, depending on the heatsink design a cooling pad can help quiet a lot, especially if the laptop has a 1-fan/heatsink design for both the GPU & CPU.
Though that will only delay and not fix throttling in demanding cases.

Next step would be undervolting the CPU.
I would suggest starting with intel XTU to find a stable undervolt for core, cache & iGPU and afterwards ditching it for Throttlestop, as you can freely modify the CPU multiplier there.
(Guides for both are all over the internet)

Once you find a stable undervolt you should also fiddle around with the CPU multiplier in Throttlestop until you find one where your CPU does not downclock anymore. Which should be somewhere around 2,5ghz~ (Cinebench R20 is a good test for it, run 5 loops w/o breaks in between, if there is no throttling, than there won't be any in most games either)

If you don't want your battery to drain while gaming, you should also use HwMonitor to check that your CPU does not go above 15Watt power draw while adjusting the CPU multiplier, unless you got a power brick rated above 60watts.

Furthermore you could also undervolt your GPU with MSI afterburner if the CPU undervolting is not enough.

 

As I also got an i5 8250U notebook with an MX150 as a secondary device (Acer Aspire 5, 15”), I can tell you that with an undervolt of -105mv on CPU,GPU & iGPU you can run at a 4-core max clock of  2,7GHZ stable, while also reducing CPU temps by a good 10°C.
Adding a cooling pad reduces overall temps by an additional 5°C in my case as well. Personally I would suggest anything similar to this one:
https://www.amazon.com/Cooler-Master-X-SLIM-II-R9-NBC-XS2K-GP/dp/B00IFQHJDM
As long as it rises the device up, has an open top for easy airflow and a reasonable fan it should provide better temps.

If I ever get around on doing an actual video guide for all this, I’ll pm you the link.

First we have review of this laptop here in Indonesia, here it's called Asus A412FL after some digging around non of the reviewer have this particular issue.

 

And thank you I will try your suggestion

[PiberiusWilde]

3 hours ago, 5x5 said:

What does that have to do with anything? You bought a laptop designed for Facebook and are surprised it can't game

What do you mean it can't "game". My old netbook can "game". What I'm asking is what could have possibly be causing this strange behavior? Cause it "game" just fine but every few minutes it stutters.

 

And who the F still uses Facebook

[Nord]

2 minutes ago, peiberius said:

First we have review of this laptop here in Indonesia, here it's called Asus A412FL after some digging around non of the reviewer have this particular issue.

 

And thank you I will try your suggestion

Send me the links to the some of the reviews, would also be curios to see the device now. Though if they aint english, I guess I wont be understanding them...

 

By the way, I know it seems like a lot of effort of going through, but it's not more than you would invest into a desktop PC if you overclocked it. But as the end result here is (usually) playable games & steady performance, it can be kinda seen as overclocking.
Again from my personal experience, out of the box my CPU & GPU would hit 95°C/75°C and fortnite was running like this: 60 fps for 2min, hughe lagg & 30FPS for 10seconds than 60fps again for 2min again and so forth. As the CPU would constantly jump to 3,4ghz and then throttle to 1,6 and go to 3,4 again just to throttle back shortly after.

After doing undervolting & CPU clock adjustments, it now runs on pretty much stable 60FPS with just 5FPS tops fluciations (due to the GPU being too weak) with 82°C/72°C on CPU/GPU.
I even had enough headroom to OC my mx150 to +250core & +1.000mem

Comparatively this also gave me 3,700 in firestrike instead of 3.100~ out of the box.
And 605/145 multi/single core in cinebench instead of 550/145 out of the box.

 

Its honestly questionably why manfucaturers refuse to at least somewhat provide performance like this out of the box, as it is easily obtainable. Once you know how the programs work, this all takes maybe 15-30min and turns a gabrage experiance into a rather solid one.

[5x5]

9 minutes ago, peiberius said:

What do you mean it can't "game". My old netbook can "game". What I'm asking is what could have possibly be causing this strange behavior? Cause it "game" just fine but every few minutes it stutters.

 

And who the F still uses Facebook

It stutters cause it's overheating. I already told you. The GPU is overheating and throttling to prevent damage

[PiberiusWilde]

1 minute ago, 5x5 said:

It stutters cause it's overheating. I already told you. The GPU is overheating and throttling to prevent damage

I know what's thermal throttling is, I know from a channel called Linus Tech Tips, but is it usual to go from ~1500 to ~500 from ~60fps to 8~? I mean at that speed it's basiclaly idle clocks.

[5x5]

1 minute ago, peiberius said:

I know what's thermal throttling is, I know from a channel called Linus Tech Tips, but is it usual to go from ~1500 to ~500 from ~60fps to 8~? I mean at that speed it's basiclaly idle clocks.

Yes. That's how the laptop manufacturer, in this case Asus, has configured the throttle point and behaviour.

[PiberiusWilde]

11 minutes ago, Nord said:

Send me the links to the some of the reviews, would also be curios to see the device now. Though if they aint english, I guess I wont be understanding them...

 

By the way, I know it seems like a lot of effort of going through, but it's not more than you would invest into a desktop PC if you overclocked it. But as the end result here is (usually) playable games & steady performance, it can be kinda seen as overclocking.
Again from my personal experience, out of the box my CPU & GPU would hit 95°C/75°C and fortnite was running like this: 60 fps for 2min, hughe lagg & 30FPS for 10seconds than 60fps again for 2min again and so forth. As the CPU would constantly jump to 3,4ghz and then throttle to 1,6 and go to 3,4 again just to throttle back shortly after.

After doing undervolting & CPU clock adjustments, it now runs on pretty much stable 60FPS with just 5FPS tops fluciations (due to the GPU being too weak) with 82°C/72°C on CPU/GPU.
I even had enough headroom to OC my mx150 to +250core & +1.000mem

Comparatively this also gave me 3,700 in firestrike instead of 3.100~ out of the box.
And 605/145 multi/single core in cinebench instead of 550/145 out of the box.

 

Its honestly questionably why manfucaturers refuse to at least somewhat provide performance like this out of the box, as it is easily obtainable. Once you know how the programs work, this all takes maybe 15-30min and turns a gabrage experiance into a rather solid one.

Hmm.. that's wierd I says at XTU unsupported platform

 

 

Btw I found a review that uses english

https://www.notebookcheck.net/Asus-VivoBook-14-i5-8265U-MX230-FHD-Laptop-Review.419779.0.html

[Nord]

It might be blocked by the manufacturer. It might needs to be run as admin (even if you are one)... or maybe just try an older version, if you can find it.

 

If all fails, just use throttlestop instead. However do make sure you understand how the UI works, as keying in & (wrongly) force applying a too low undervolt could potentionally stop your system from even booting up as the undervolt can be applied directy on windows boot. On XTU this cant be the case, hence why I suggested it to find the stable numbers first.

 

 

 

I did in fact find that one link but discarded it due to the differnet model number. Though if you are sure thats the device - or rather a close relative to it than yes, definatly the CPU. Look at the stresstest, CPU is actually thermal throttling to 700mhz. The Baseclock should be or 1.8GHZ, as its an i7. WHile the GPU sits rather pretty at 1.500mhz~, where it is supposed to be.

[PiberiusWilde]

10 minutes ago, Nord said:

It might be blocked by the manufacturer. It might needs to be run as admin (even if you are one)... or maybe just try an older version, if you can find it.

 

If all fails, just use throttlestop instead. However do make sure you understand how the UI works, as keying in & (wrongly) force applying a too low undervolt could potentionally stop your system from even booting up as the undervolt can be applied directy on windows boot. On XTU this cant be the case, hence why I suggested it to find the stable numbers first.

 

 

 

I did in fact find that one link but discarded it due to the differnet model number. Though if you are sure thats the device - or rather a close relative to it than yes, definatly the CPU. Look at the stresstest, CPU is actually thermal throttling to 700mhz. The Baseclock should be or 1.8GHZ, as its an i7. WHile the GPU sits rather pretty at 1.500mhz~, where it is supposed to be.

I have undervolt the CPU by -100mV but I it seems that MSI Afterburner wont allow me to undervolt the GPU

[Nord]

If its stable apply the same -100mv on the iGPU and CPU-Cache.

 

For the GPU, it depends if you are allowed to change the voltage or not, sometimes you simply cant - or can, but it wont apply.
In any case, make sure that "voltage control" is unlocked in afterburner (see attached screenshot).
If it still dont work, try the setting next to it where it says "extended MSI", I got an MSI card, hence its the choice to have. For a laptop though, its probably better to set to "3rd party" or "reference design."

 

Also as an FYI: if programs just suddenly "close", you get a bluescreen or the system simply freezes up than you undervolted the CPU/IGPU/Cache too much.
If the nvidia driver crashes, you undervolted the GPU too much.

[PiberiusWilde]

7 minutes ago, Nord said:

If its stable apply the same -100mv on the iGPU and CPU-Cache.

 

For the GPU, it depends if you are allowed to change the voltage or not, sometimes you simply cant - or can, but it wont apply.
In any case, make sure that "voltage control" is unlocked in afterburner (see attached screenshot).
If it still dont work, try the setting next to it where it says "extended MSI", I got an MSI card, hence its the choice to have. For a laptop though, its probably better to set to "3rd party" or "reference design."

 

Also as an FYI: if programs just suddenly "close", you get a bluescreen or the system simply freezes up than you undervolted the CPU/IGPU/Cache too much.
If the nvidia driver crashes, you undervolted the GPU too much.

Nope I've tried that and it still wont let me undvervolt it. I have to go sleep now it's pretty late and I have class tomorrow. I will continue this journey to the unknown tomorrow.

 

 

 

And Thank You, Thank you so much for helping me. I hope don't waste your time and I hope this doesn't bother you.

[Nord]

I checked on my mx150, I cant undervolt it either. Probably only an option for GTX cards.
In theory, if you reduce the coreclock, like keying in -100, this should also lower the powerusage of the GPU. Though unless you got a clamp for inbetween the wall & the laptop charger, you cant know for sure. 
Though I dont think it will be necessary to touch the GPU anyway.

 

 

No problem, I know what a scam & headache the laptop market can be.

[PiberiusWilde]

On 9/16/2019 at 8:12 AM, Nord said:

I checked on my mx150, I cant undervolt it either. Probably only an option for GTX cards.
In theory, if you reduce the coreclock, like keying in -100, this should also lower the powerusage of the GPU. Though unless you got a clamp for inbetween the wall & the laptop charger, you cant know for sure. 
Though I dont think it will be necessary to touch the GPU anyway.

 

 

No problem, I know what a scam & headache the laptop market can be.

Does this looked at bit "empty" to you? I thought there'll be a lot more "options"

 

 

 

Sorry for getting back to you just now, busy day yesterday.

[PiberiusWilde]

On 9/16/2019 at 8:12 AM, Nord said:

I checked on my mx150, I cant undervolt it either. Probably only an option for GTX cards.
In theory, if you reduce the coreclock, like keying in -100, this should also lower the powerusage of the GPU. Though unless you got a clamp for inbetween the wall & the laptop charger, you cant know for sure. 
Though I dont think it will be necessary to touch the GPU anyway.

 

 

No problem, I know what a scam & headache the laptop market can be.

Crap now this laptop is doing weird things. It's deleting some of my games because it's detecting it as viruses.

 

 

That's it I'm reinstalling windows maybe it would flush out the bad code it has.

[Nord]

Nvidia panel is fine, the display and IO is using your intel iGPU. So nvidia has no control over audio, resolution, color spectrums & similar settings, only the 3d ones are available to it.

The missing settings can be found under the intel panel, right click on the desktop and it should show up there.

 

For the “virus” detections, it's rather odd that it is happening at the same time you are fiddling with system settings so to say. Though depending on how “good/trustworthy” the AV you are using is, this can utter bogus or an actual cause to worry.

Also be aware that viruses which are recognised as “PUP” are not really a virus, it's just a “potentially unwanted program” a trick that companies use to up the detection rate while similarly fudge over people.

[PiberiusWilde]

Hey I figured it out on my own. YAY!!!!