Idea to get more SATA connections

[ad3m]

Hey guys. i have an asrock epc612d4i, this mb has only 4 sata connections on the motherboard. i'm the silverstone ds380 case. i need more than 4 disks. so now it is planed using an gpu in the case. i have already an LSI 9211-8i card but the mini itx boards does have only one pci x16 slot. i can do pci bifurcation but there is no place in the case, and i really want to use this case. the system im gona use is unraid. so maybe i can use the usb slots to get more sata connections?

it has one internal USB 3.1 Gen1  and two USB 3.1 Gen1 in the back.

 

the last usb 2.0 header is on the mb and i can use that for unraid.

 

what do you think? is that an good idea or maybe you can help me with this:)

 

thx guys

[Dujith]

You can use a port multiplier for the SATA ports (a quick check shows the SATA uses the C612 chipset, so it should support it).

They will then share the bandwith. So on a SATAIII you will get 1,2Gb/s for 5 drives.

 

[mariushm]

Some guy on a forum has a board that supports bifurcation and got it working with ameri-rack ARC1-PELY423-C5V3  riser :: http://www.ameri-rack.com/ARC2-PELY423-C7_m.html

Maybe it would work with your board ... Here's the forum thread: https://hardforum.com/threads/pcie-bifurcation.1870298/page-11#post-1042729050

 

[ad3m]

2 hours ago, Dujith said:

You can use a port multiplier for the SATA ports (a quick check shows the SATA uses the C612 chipset, so it should support it).

They will then share the bandwith. So on a SATAIII you will get 1,2Gb/s for 5 drives.

 

so it means that the 6Gb/s will share for 4 ports right?

 

2 hours ago, mariushm said:

Some guy on a forum has a board that supports bifurcation and got it working with ameri-rack ARC1-PELY423-C5V3  riser :: http://www.ameri-rack.com/ARC2-PELY423-C7_m.html

Maybe it would work with your board ... Here's the forum thread: https://hardforum.com/threads/pcie-bifurcation.1870298/page-11#post-1042729050

 

i really want to avoid bifurcation. i already saw this thread. 

 

the gpu i'm using is an nvidia grid k2

 

the intel chipset product specifications says that there is 10 sata ports possible:

https://ark.intel.com/content/www/us/en/ark/products/81759/intel-c612-chipset.html

Quote

Max # of SATA 6.0 Gb/s Ports = 10

hmm i'm out of ideas.

 

 

[Dujith]

23 minutes ago, ad3m said:

the intel chipset product specifications says that there is 10 sata ports possible:

https://ark.intel.com/content/www/us/en/ark/products/81759/intel-c612-chipset.html

Thats 10 physical ports each 6Gb/s. This limit does not apply to the SATA multiplier, i thinks that limit is 15.

 

23 minutes ago, ad3m said:

so it means that the 6Gb/s will share for 4 ports right?

Yes, each SATA port from the motherboard can handle 6Gb/s, so if you multiply the port you are sharing the 6Gb/s over those ports

If you will just attach HDD's at roughly 100MB/s (smaller files) then you could hang 6 on each port before hitting any performance issue.

 

Most multipliers i see have 5 outputs. So that would mean you have 20 SATA ports.

 

[mariushm]

The chipset can "create" 10 sata connectors, as in the manufacturer of the motherboard can configure the chipset in that configuration and put the physical connectors there.

It can mean that the motherboard maker must trade some functionality for another, for example if you want 2-4 more SATA ports, some USB ports may have to go away, because of limited resources inside the chip.

 

A sata controller can support port multipliers which basically take one SATA port and create multiple SATA port and mix the data from those ports into that single port.

So, a 5 port multiplier will create 5 x  6 gbps SATA ports but in total, you only get 6 gbps (~560 MB/s) to the chipset.

So if you're reading data from all five drives at the same time, each drive will get around 1 / 5 of the maximum speed, or around 100-110 MB/s. If only two drives are being used, they may get 200-250 MB/s each.

 

Here's an example of port multiplier card : https://www.amazon.com/Port-multiplier-controller-card-Expansion/dp/B00R49FT0Q/

The bracket can be removed ... so you power it with a sata power connector and you connect a sata cable to it, and you get 5 sata ports.

 

There's cheaper port multipliers, this one's just a random example from Amazon that looks decent and it's from a known brand.

[ad3m]

i ordered one of these startech port multiplier. if it works im gona order again. i want to add 4 seagate ironwolf disks, for each sata multiplier im gona connect two disks. so they can get the full speed. and the other two free sata ports on the mb im gona use for the ssd's. one more thing im gona use is an usb port for an 4tb 2.5 hdd, so i can put there some stuff i dont really need an parity or something.

 

thx:)

[seagate_surfer]

Apparently, a port amplifier requires that controllers support "command-based switching" or "FIS-based (frame information structure) switching" to use port multiplication. Each paradigm offers unique capabilities suitable for particular environments.

 

Command-based switching, conceptually similar to a mechanical A/B switch, limits the host to issue commands to only one drive at a time. Commands to other drives will not be issued until the command queue is completed for the prior transaction. Since command-based switching only accesses one drive at a time, it does not take advantage of the potentially higher speed host link. Therefore, command-based switching is ideal for simple drive expansion where capacity is more important than performance.

 

FIS–based switching offers high performance storage connections to multiple drives simultaneously. The host issues and completes commands to drives at any time. The port multiplier will direct data to any drive ready for I/O. An arbitration algorithm ensures a balanced data flow. Unlike Command-based switching, FIS-based switching allows aggregation of reads to fully use the potentially higher bandwidth of the host link and takes full advantage of the performance benefits of Native Command Queuing (NCQ) on the port multiplier, resulting in aggregated throughput of up to the total bandwidth of the host band link.

 

Trying to find something that works for you I found this Hub that supports both command-based and FIS-based swit. Also has the option to use a DC adapter or a SATA to 4-pin cable which may suit you better because DC-5V may not be anough to power more than one drive at a time: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07FTJJB9K/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?smid=AGS7WWWJ2HGYE&psc=1

 

 

[ad3m]

the multiplier didnt work. so now im looking for an usb 3.1 to sata cable. if its possible with dual sata. because sata 3.1 can get 10gbit/s.

[seagate_surfer]

 

The cables vary from one to the other but if you are going to use a model like the following it is good that you know that these cables are powered via USB, that is, they can feed about 5v and that is equivalent to 2.5 SSDs and HDDs: https://www.amazon.com/-/es/cable-adaptador-disco-Cable-3-0-Convertidor/dp/B00HJZJI84

If you are going to use devices larger in size than those of 2.5 then use a docking station like these examples, they can power both 2.5 and 3.5 because they are additionally powered with their own power adapter: 

For 2 devices at the same time: Inateck Docking station.

For 1 device at a time: Sabrent USB 3.0 a SATA.

[ad3m]

the problem is, i wana use everything inside the case. and an cable will be the best choice. i have some sata extensions, so i can power my 3.5"hdds with normal sata power from the psu.

 

can i use an 3.1 hub and take two of these cables so they can share the speed?. usb 3.1 speed is 10gbit/s. so with two usb 3.0 each 5gbit/s

[seagate_surfer]

In theory yes, seeing a USB-C type HUB you should be able to connect one of those with two cables of the type I put up there.

But don't you think that would be a bit on the bulky side? I mean, what you want is to connect an HDD to the normal PSU to power it with enough volts but you want to connect the data side through an USB-C adapter like these, right? that is, you will have to leave the case open, connect the PSU power cable to the HDD, then connect the USB-C hub to the front or back port, then use some data cable that connects the HDD to the HUB (I'm not sure if data only to USB exists) and permanently leave the lid open... Am I thinking too much about this or am I right?

[Salacious B Crum]

13 hours ago, ad3m said:

the problem is, i wana use everything inside the case. and an cable will be the best choice. i have some sata extensions, so i can power my 3.5"hdds with normal sata power from the psu.

 

can i use an 3.1 hub and take two of these cables so they can share the speed?. usb 3.1 speed is 10gbit/s. so with two usb 3.0 each 5gbit/s

 

You may want to pose these questions on unRAID's forum you may have issues with trying to put usb drives into the array on an unRAID box and anything with a Marvell controller is a non starter or should be avoided