Doesn't look good for the AMD Kaveri

[Hans Power]

 

Judging from this review the AMD A10-7850K the new Kaveri does offer better iGPU performance but CPU performance goes downhill and can't even compare to an Intel I3. And that with a pricetag of an Intel i5. As a PC gamer I can't find any value in that - I can imagine it in a media center PC or an entry level gaming PC but that's it. What do you guys think? Are the days of AMD High end gaming ultimately over APU/CPU wise?

[Kevinkt]

That's how it's always been. pretty good graphics but a few gen behind on the CPU side.... It's been like that since the first apu.

[Vitalius]

That's how it's always been. pretty good graphics but a few gen behind on the CPU side.... It's been like that since the first apu.

This.

The point is to put it together with a dedicated GPU. I don't understand why people don't get that. 

[Hazy125]

This.

The point is to put it together with a dedicated GPU. I don't understand why people don't get that.

It's not like it's bad as such, the combination of HSA and Huma make it have very good cpu performance. Of you're going just by raw cpu, then yeah, it doesn't compete. But it uses both cpu and gpu for normal processing. Also, no idea why I quoted you...

[Hans Power]

That's how it's always been. pretty good graphics but a few gen behind on the CPU side.... It's been like that since the first apu.

 

For me AMD CPUs always have been a cheap, yet powerful alternative to the intel ones for gaming but I guess they just go into different directions by using different architectures now. Problem with AMD is in my opinion that it seems to need specific software support to get the most performance out of it, so it's a hit or miss situation and nothing you can rely on. Also if you'd need a dedicated AMD GPU to get full performance, that would limit choices when it comes to building PCs quite a bit.

[Constantine]

I think the thing about AMD's APUs is that nobody's actually written anything that takes advantage of the gpu side as a processing unit. So far, all of the benchmark tests I've seen tested on it either only test the CPU side or the GPU side. I haven't actually seen it tested as an HSA with the GPU being used to cover for the CPU's lack of floating point capability. Hopefully once AMD sorts out OpenCL and their APIs we'll have people writing software that'll take advantage of the architecture and we can see some decent performance.

 

For now, its just a good budget AIO that has a cpu and a gpu in a single package.

[Hans Power]

I think the thing about AMD's APUs is that nobody's actually written anything that takes advantage of the gpu side as a processing unit. So far, all of the benchmark tests I've seen tested on it either only test the CPU side or the GPU side. I haven't actually seen it tested as an HSA with the GPU being used to cover for the CPU's lack of floating point capability. Hopefully once AMD sorts out OpenCL and their APIs we'll have people writing software that'll take advantage of the architecture and we can see some decent performance.

 

For now, its just a good budget AIO that has a cpu and a gpu in a single package.

 

Hmm, seems to be quite the gamble since it relies on developer support while intel just works no matter what. It's like they focus on the mobile side of things and the desktop gets some wishy washy support through software which might or might not catch on.

[Constantine]

Hmm, seems to be quite the gamble since it relies on developer support while intel just works no matter what. It's like they focus on the mobile side of things and the desktop gets some wishy washy support through software which might or might not catch on.

 

It very much is, but a lot of the things in Silicon valley depend on developer trends anyway. AMD's gamble is for Intel to hit the performance ceiling on their architecture (which from the looks of it they almost are) and to be able to prove that APUs are the future of processing and that buying out ATI wasn't a silly move.

 

They're being very ambitious about their plans. I can't wait to see what happens next.

 

Edit: I forgot to mention that the reason Intel just works is because developers have been using Intel's compiler to create their stuff. There was a blog post back in 2009 where it would cripple performance for AMD chips so AMD is again the underdog in this case. Found the blog: http://www.agner.org/optimize/blog/read.php?i=49

[MeesterJackson]

It honestly doesn't. I'm actually working on a video on this topic...kinda ranty lol. They want an i5's money's worth for this? Something that barely competes with an i3? Pffttt yeah, AMD, what the hell happened to VALUE? You guys are known for that man, just drop the price to like 150/160 and make people happier.

 

PS: Oh, and since I KNOW these aren't going to sell very well (at least for now), get to workin' on that 28nm FX Line up. 

[Hans Power]

It honestly doesn't. I'm actually working on a video on this topic...kinda ranty lol. They want an i5's money's worth for this? Something that barely competes with an i3? Pffttt yeah, AMD, what the hell happened to VALUE? You guys are known for that man, just drop the price to like 150/160 and make people happier.

 

PS: Oh, and since I KNOW these aren't going to sell very well (at least for now), get to workin' on that 28nm FX Line up. 

 

Agreed - there's just not much reason to buy this thing right now. The only circumstance I can think of where this makes sense is when the iGPU is just on the performance level you need and you don't plan to upgrade anything - but I can't think of a single purpose where this applies - the performance is just not good enough CPU or iGPU wise no matter the reason behind it.

 

Btw. isn't the FX line up scrapped completely in favour of their APUs or did I understand that wrong?

[Leonard]

The guy looks like they a person who was kidnapped and put in front of a camera to record a message. About the performance of the new APU........AH DAMN IT!!!!

[MeesterJackson]

Agreed - there's just not much reason to buy this thing right now. The only circumstance I can think of where this makes sense is when the iGPU is just on the performance level you need and you don't plan to upgrade anything - but I can't think of a single purpose where this applies - the performance is just not good enough CPU or iGPU wise no matter the reason behind it.

Btw. isn't the FX line up scrapped completely in favour of their APUs or did I understand that wrong?

FX isn't cancelled, just heavily delayed.

The guy looks like they a person who was kidnapped and put in front of a camera to record a message. About the performance of the new APU........AH DAMN IT!!!!

....what?

[Hans Power]

FX isn't cancelled, just heavily delayed. 

 

Anything more definitive on that? Cause everything at least suggests that the FX 9590 is the last of the series.

 

http://www.maximumpc.com/secret_amd_roadmap_suggests_end_line_fx_processor_lineup2013

[nokturrduk84]

What a horrible results, but hey it's an AMD, I'm not surprised at all, lol

That cpu is just a sh*t

[Hans Power]

If I take that article into account together with the video review, my over 3 year old (!) Phenom II X4 still comes close or even beats the Kaveri (not faster than the trinity CPU wise) sometimes in gaming performance!

http://www.hardwareluxx.de/index.php/artikel/hardware/prozessoren/26482-test-amd-a10-6800k-und-a10-6700.html?start=8

And my CPU was only around 90€ when I bought it. Put a 150 € dedicated GPU in that thing and it'll beat the kaveri in pretty much everything! And I suspect that to happen with a lot of CPU + dedicated GPU configurations in the price range of the Kaveri. So price to performance ratio on that thing is just completely out of the window!

[flibberdipper]

APU's have always had kinda shitty CPU cores.

[applebook]

This still make sense as a budget, light gaming and HTPC build. 

 

For pure rendering and gaming, users would be looking at the upcoming FX series. 

[Patrick3D]

The benchmarks clearly show it outperforming the A10-6800, which for someone buying AMD-only is all that matters.

[LimpCurve]

 

"Judging from this review the AMD A10-7850K the new Kaveri does offer better iGPU performance but CPU performance goes downhill and can't even compare to an Intel I3. And that with a pricetag of an Intel i5. As a PC gamer I can't find any value in that - I can imagine it in a media center PC or an entry level gaming PC but that's it. What do you guys think? Are the days of AMD High end gaming ultimately over APU/CPU wise?"

 

I feel as though you do not understand the importance of graphics rather than CPU performance in gaming. Yes the i3 and i5 may have slightly more powerful threads but at the same time they have much less powerful onboard graphics.  The 7850k is a budget solution where as you have a descently powerful CPU and GPU running on the same chip. This will effectively improve performance in multithreaded tasks as well as games to the point where it really doesn't make sense to buy a dual core i3 which is $30 less or a decently powerful i5 which is over $50 more. And if you would rather give up the benefits of having an APU then it would be much more worth it to go for an AMD FX cpu rather than an Intel CPU. I am not hating on Intel CPU's, they are just incredibly overpriced for mediocre performance where as the FX series of processors are pure price to performance. My final verdict is that I see APU's as the future of gaming rather than a failure on AMD's part. If they could put a decently powerful CPU and a GPU equivalent to an HD 7750 on a shared chip, imagine what they could bring out next year.  And all I'm saying is that all the benchmarks there were most likely set up. The A10-7850k does beat the 6800k in all aspects including CPU performance. If this man has a quarrel with AMD he should not be taking it out on the viewers by lying to them but rather exclaim his problem with AMD himself. And if that doesn't work for him then he's just SOL.. Oh and here's actually some reliable proof.

 

http://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=AMD+A10-6800K+APU

 

http://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=AMD+A10-7850K+APU+with+Radeon+R7+Graphics

[Hans Power]

 

 

"Judging from this review the AMD A10-7850K the new Kaveri does offer better iGPU performance but CPU performance goes downhill and can't even compare to an Intel I3. And that with a pricetag of an Intel i5. As a PC gamer I can't find any value in that - I can imagine it in a media center PC or an entry level gaming PC but that's it. What do you guys think? Are the days of AMD High end gaming ultimately over APU/CPU wise?"

 

I feel as though you do not understand the importance of graphics rather than CPU performance in gaming. Yes the i3 and i5 may have slightly more powerful threads but at the same time they have much less powerful onboard graphics.  The 7850k is a budget solution where as you have a descently powerful CPU and GPU running on the same chip. This will effectively improve performance in multithreaded tasks as well as games to the point where it really doesn't make sense to buy a dual core i3 which is $30 less or a decently powerful i5 which is over $50 more. And if you would rather give up the benefits of having an APU then it would be much more worth it to go for an AMD FX cpu rather than an Intel CPU. I am not hating on Intel CPU's, they are just incredibly overpriced for mediocre performance where as the FX series of processors are pure price to performance. My final verdict is that I see APU's as the future of gaming rather than a failure on AMD's part. If they could put a decently powerful CPU and a GPU equivalent to an HD 7750 on a shared chip, imagine what they could bring out next year.  And all I'm saying is that all the benchmarks there were most likely set up. The A10-7850k does beat the 6800k in all aspects including CPU performance. If this man has a quarrel with AMD he should not be taking it out on the viewers by lying to them but rather exclaim his problem with AMD himself. And if that doesn't work for him then he's just SOL.. Oh and here's actually some reliable proof.

 

http://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=AMD+A10-6800K+APU

 

http://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=AMD+A10-7850K+APU+with+Radeon+R7+Graphics

 

 

But the iGPU just isn't strong enough, even for entry level gaming - you could play a few indies with that and a few AAAs on low settings on 30FPS and that's it! If you take an around 100€ CPU like an FX6300 or even an i3 4330 and put a 100€ dedicated GPU in that it'll beat the A10-7850 at every possible level and that even at a lower price (the A10-7850 comes at 220€ btw)! So no matter the CPU benchmark it is just too weak for "serious" gaming, anyway.

And what's so reliable about your numbers anyway compared to his? Also consider, that he used a GTX 780 while doing the CPU only benchmarks.

 

Edit: I guess you have to decide yourself how to define entry level gaming but for me it is playing every current game at 30Fps at least.

[Jumper118]

drivers and bios's aren't any good yet. give it a couple of months and they will be a bit faster.when sandybridge came out you could barely get 4.6ghz on most boards. a year or so later all of them were doing 4.8-5ghz on fairly low voltage

[Hans Power]

Btw, during the day the price over here dropped from the initial 240€ down to 220 and now to 215€. Interesting - if it goes further down it might even become worth it, although I would not pick it up despite the price - still too slow in all categories for my needs.

[MeesterJackson]

The benchmarks clearly show it outperforming the A10-6800, which for someone buying AMD-only is all that matters.

The iGPU is better, not the CPU. 

[N7_Zer0]

If you're building a "serious gaming" rig, you wouldn't get an APU in the first place. Sure you can get an intel CPU and a discreet card but that means more heat, power consumption, noise and space.

 

7850K is $200 in Canada btw (130€). Whether or not it's worth it depends on your location.

 

But the iGPU just isn't strong enough, even for entry level gaming - you could play a few indies with that and a few AAAs on low settings on 30FPS and that's it! If you take an around 100€ CPU like an FX6300 or even an i3 4330 and put a 100€ dedicated GPU in that it'll beat the A10-7850 at every possible level and that even at a lower price (the A10-7850 comes at 220€ btw)! So no matter the CPU benchmark it is just too weak for "serious" gaming, anyway.

And what's so reliable about your numbers anyway compared to his? Also consider, that he used a GTX 780 while doing the CPU only benchmarks.

[Hans Power]

If you're building a "serious gaming" rig, you wouldn't get an APU in the first place. Sure you can get an intel CPU and a discreet card but that means more heat, power consumption, noise and space.

 

7850K is $200 in Canada btw (130€). Whether or not it's worth it depends on your location.

 

Agreed, for that price I'd see the value for that but the price over here in germany just makes it completely obsolete.