High end gaming / heavy CG rig planning

[Wolrajh]

Hey there people,

 

So here is the deal : I'm a CG artist using Houdini as my go-to cg package as well as a gamer, and I would like to try, for once, a high-end computer capable of dealing with very heavy simulation data ( smoke, flip, etc ) as well as playing the most recent games using the "ultra" preset in 1440p / 144hz. Here is for the short version.

 

Let me go into more details ( and shamelessly copy / paste the must-read post ) :

 

1. Budget & Location

 

I'll take a loan anyway, so I guess it will be somewhere in the 5 to 6k euros range. Living in Europe, France. So basically prices can be expected to be higher here !

 

2. Aim

 

So as I said : goal is web browsing. Need to get that Edge browser up and running, amirite ?

Naaah, I just want to be able to deal with heavy simulations, which implies a few twists with your usual run-of-the-mill gaming rig. I also have a Vive, thankfully the bonus will be passive.

 

To this end, I have some very specific goals in mind :

- Threadripper 2990xw. Because cores.

- 64gb of ram is an absolute minimum, and the only reason I won't get to 128 is because of the price ( unless I can find some nice deal(s) for the other parts ).

- Disk space and disk speed will also be an important part - it's easy to melt those BG fast.

- 2080ti. Because I also want a solid gamig rig, and also because I use Redshift, which is a GPU renderer. ( though with such a powerful CPU, cpu rendering may become a thing again )

- No glass panel on the case. No way. This rig may have to keep running at night, I'd rather not turn my room into a disco floor, you know ? Always had a weakness for Fractal Design but it looks like I may have to expand my horizon this time.

 

Basically I want a powerful and discreet computer, with (almost) no interest in the visuals.

 

3. Monitors

 

I already have two monitors - an old 144hz HD benQ serving as companion to a Asus ROG PG279Q ( 1440p, gsync ). No plan to get a third.

 

4. Peripherals

 

Nothing needed except for a windows - I'm not sure I really need pro, so I guess family can help save a bit of green dust ?

 

5. Why are you upgrading?

 

 

I'm the owner of two other computers - I basically upgrade or change every four years or so. New computer - 1 or 2 years laters new GPU / new RAM - 1 or 2 years later new computer - etc.

I like to change everything so I can keep the old ones as a makeshift, amateur render and sim farm when needed, or just for when friends come over to play some LAN. And components are usually not very salvageable.

Also, I do not have the patience, knowledge, and self-confidence I could build a new computer from parts anyway.

The computer I'm using right now got a I7 4970k, 32gb DDR3 ram, a 1080ti that I feel may be a bit bottlenecked. It's ... okay, I guess, but it's not very comfortable. Obviously, such a setup can't be upgraded - I don't remember exactly what the mobo is but the I7 was already the limit, and DDR3... Well, it's the era of DDR4, right ?

 

Also, time window. I usually get a bonus money package in May ( so basically I just got it ), and there are some nice, but fast going, loan interests at my bank right now.

 

6. Example !

 

SO here it is, my project.

I haven't come fully empty handed though, and here is a link to something I made using info from poking around the internet ( this forum included obviously ) :

 

PCPartPicker Part List

Type	Item	Price
CPU	AMD - Threadripper 2990WX 3 GHz 32-Core Processor	$1613.04 @ Amazon
CPU Cooler	Noctua - NH-U14S TR4-SP3 82.52 CFM CPU Cooler	$79.90 @ Amazon
Motherboard	Gigabyte - X399 AORUS XTREME EATX TR4 Motherboard	$429.99 @ Amazon
Memory	G.Skill - Ripjaws V Series 64 GB (4 x 16 GB) DDR4-3200 Memory	$804.83 @ Amazon
Storage	Samsung - 970 Evo Plus 500 GB M.2-2280 Solid State Drive	$125.40 @ OutletPC
Storage	Crucial - MX500 1 TB 2.5" Solid State Drive	$119.89 @ OutletPC
Storage	Western Digital - Black 4 TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive	$179.89 @ OutletPC
Video Card	Gigabyte - GeForce RTX 2080 Ti 11 GB AORUS XTREME Video Card	$1249.99 @ Newegg
Case	Phanteks - PH-ES614PC_BK ATX Full Tower Case	$129.99 @ Amazon
Power Supply	EVGA - SuperNOVA 1000 P2 1000 W 80+ Platinum Certified Fully Modular ATX Power Supply	$219.76 @ OutletPC
	Prices include shipping, taxes, rebates, and discounts
	Total (before mail-in rebates)	$5002.68
	Mail-in rebates	-$50.00
	Total	$4952.68
	Generated by PCPartPicker 2019-05-17 23:49 EDT-0400

 

I'm basically doubting everything on this list, except for the CPU obviously, and could use some help into isolating either bad components, or finding way to reduce the cost in order to add case fans if needed, add the OS, etc.

Just for the sake of comparison, here is the closest example I could make on a french service provider website using their own tool :

 

https://www.topachat.com/pages/configomatic.php?c=MBWI5eLfYoL9dnauYkYVBOeKhXet2bGWsHugGOAyhgE%3D

 

You'll notice I couldn't even get the correct RAM ( if things come to it I'll just buy it elsewhere, it's an easy to replace part ) so I choose a close one to emulate the price but everything else is the same, except in euros.

 

 

So, people, what do you think? Any opinions ? Is it a bad timing ? Am I missing components ? Can I save some money somewhere ? Is it really air we're breathing ?

 

Thanks,

-W

 

[Sorenson]

There have been news items in the past couple days claiming nvidia is about to come out with more powerful RTX cards to combat Navi. I find this doubtful at the 2080ti level of cards, but if you can wait 2 weeks for computex you might as well. 

[jerubedo]

19 minutes ago, Wolrajh said:

Hey there people,

 

So here is the deal : I'm a CG artist using Houdini as my go-to cg package as well as a gamer, and I would like to try, for once, a high-end computer capable of dealing with very heavy simulation data ( smoke, flip, etc ) as well as playing the most recent games using the "ultra" preset in 1440p / 144hz. Here is for the short version.

 

Let me go into more details ( and shamelessly copy / paste the must-read post ) :

 

1. Budget & Location

 

I'll take a loan anyway, so I guess it will be somewhere in the 5 to 6k euros range. Living in Europe, France. So basically prices can be expected to be higher here !

 

2. Aim

 

So as I said : goal is web browsing. Need to get that Edge browser up and running, amirite ?

Naaah, I just want to be able to deal with heavy simulations, which implies a few twists with your usual run-of-the-mill gaming rig. I also have a Vive, thankfully the bonus will be passive.

 

To this end, I have some very specific goals in mind :

- Threadripper 2990xw. Because cores.

- 64gb of ram is an absolute minimum, and the only reason I won't get to 128 is because of the price ( unless I can find some nice deal(s) for the other parts ).

- Disk space and disk speed will also be an important part - it's easy to melt those BG fast.

- 2080ti. Because I also want a solid gamig rig, and also because I use Redshift, which is a GPU renderer. ( though with such a powerful CPU, cpu rendering may become a thing again )

- No glass panel on the case. No way. This rig may have to keep running at night, I'd rather not turn my room into a disco floor, you know ? Always had a weakness for Fractal Design but it looks like I may have to expand my horizon this time.

 

Basically I want a powerful and discreet computer, with (almost) no interest in the visuals.

 

3. Monitors

 

I already have two monitors - an old 144hz HD benQ serving as companion to a Asus ROG PG279Q ( 1440p, gsync ). No plan to get a third.

 

4. Peripherals

 

Nothing needed except for a windows - I'm not sure I really need pro, so I guess family can help save a bit of green dust ?

 

5. Why are you upgrading?

 

 

I'm the owner of two other computers - I basically upgrade or change every four years or so. New computer - 1 or 2 years laters new GPU / new RAM - 1 or 2 years later new computer - etc.

I like to change everything so I can keep the old ones as a makeshift, amateur render and sim farm when needed, or just for when friends come over to play some LAN. And components are usually not very salvageable.

Also, I do not have the patience, knowledge, and self-confidence I could build a new computer from parts anyway.

The computer I'm using right now got a I7 4970k, 32gb DDR3 ram, a 1080ti that I feel may be a bit bottlenecked. It's ... okay, I guess, but it's not very comfortable. Obviously, such a setup can't be upgraded - I don't remember exactly what the mobo is but the I7 was already the limit, and DDR3... Well, it's the era of DDR4, right ?

 

Also, time window. I usually get a bonus money package in May ( so basically I just got it ), and there are some nice, but fast going, loan interests at my bank right now.

 

6. Example !

 

SO here it is, my project.

I haven't come fully empty handed though, and here is a link to something I made using info from poking around the internet ( this forum included obviously ) :

 

PCPartPicker Part List

Type	Item	Price
CPU	AMD - Threadripper 2990WX 3 GHz 32-Core Processor	$1613.04 @ Amazon
CPU Cooler	Noctua - NH-U14S TR4-SP3 82.52 CFM CPU Cooler	$79.90 @ Amazon
Motherboard	Gigabyte - X399 AORUS XTREME EATX TR4 Motherboard	$429.99 @ Amazon
Memory	G.Skill - Ripjaws V Series 64 GB (4 x 16 GB) DDR4-3200 Memory	$804.83 @ Amazon
Storage	Samsung - 970 Evo Plus 500 GB M.2-2280 Solid State Drive	$125.40 @ OutletPC
Storage	Crucial - MX500 1 TB 2.5" Solid State Drive	$119.89 @ OutletPC
Storage	Western Digital - Black 4 TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive	$179.89 @ OutletPC
Video Card	Gigabyte - GeForce RTX 2080 Ti 11 GB AORUS XTREME Video Card	$1249.99 @ Newegg
Case	Phanteks - PH-ES614PC_BK ATX Full Tower Case	$129.99 @ Amazon
Power Supply	EVGA - SuperNOVA 1000 P2 1000 W 80+ Platinum Certified Fully Modular ATX Power Supply	$219.76 @ OutletPC
	Prices include shipping, taxes, rebates, and discounts
	Total (before mail-in rebates)	$5002.68
	Mail-in rebates	-$50.00
	Total	$4952.68
	Generated by PCPartPicker 2019-05-17 23:49 EDT-0400

 

I'm basically doubting everything on this list, except for the CPU obviously, and could use some help into isolating either bad components, or finding way to reduce the cost in order to add case fans if needed, add the OS, etc.

Just for the sake of comparison, here is the closest example I could make on a french service provider website using their own tool :

 

https://www.topachat.com/pages/configomatic.php?c=MBWI5eLfYoL9dnauYkYVBOeKhXet2bGWsHugGOAyhgE%3D

 

You'll notice I couldn't even get the correct RAM ( if things come to it I'll just buy it elsewhere, it's an easy to replace part ) so I choose a close one to emulate the price but everything else is the same, except in euros.

 

 

So, people, what do you think? Any opinions ? Is it a bad timing ? Am I missing components ? Can I save some money somewhere ? Is it really air we're breathing ?

 

Thanks,

-W

 

This is definitely a hard question to answer because those two workloads (gaming and Houdini) are very much at odds with each other. Houdini certainly prefers way more cores/threads and as seen here, your Threadripper choice is class leading where it handily beats everything:

 

However, it then falls behind by a significant margin in gaming performance. It trails even behind the 2700x/2700/2600x as seen here:

 

 

Since you are targeting 144 FPS, it's going to be hard to get the best of both worlds right now. You might be able to get 144 FPS on a heavily OCed 2700x, and you can mostly get it on a 9600K/9700K/9900K, but those CPUs will all fall far behind in Houdini.

[Wolrajh]

Ooh, that's a very interesting comparison chart!

 

So it looses a bit in particle-based simulation against lesser cores / higher frequency CPUs. That difference isn't huge but things tend to escalate quickly in Houdini, and gaps can get pretty wide pretty fast.

I suppose there's not question the 299wx0 beats the competition when it comes to CPU rendering, though.Even heard Arnold with a 2990 was faster than Redshift with a 2080ti ( although redshift can't take full advantage of RTX -yet- )

 

And that was a very educationnal video as well. I expected some loss of framerate, but I didn't expect that much Still, it very recently occured to me I wasn't playing that much anymore. I mean, weeks can pass with me not even firing up a game - I'd rather launch Houdini and blow up sh!t, constant learning style. So I guess if I had to choose, I'd rather give priority to the work part over the gaming part and hope the 2080ti will carry enough firepower to deal with whatever I throw at it. If I can't get 120hz constantly, well... First world problem, after all ?

 

Still, the chart is making me contemplate the possibility of a 2950X. Poorer Pyro performance but better grain and flip, huh? How would it fare with Vellum ? Added benefit of slightly better performances in games ? Way cheaper, too, obviously, so I could think about adding something else. Ram, maybe, or a second GPU. And there was that memory bandwith issue with the 2990WX...

 

Ah, this is turning out to be much more complicated than I originally thought . Then again, it always does

[brob]

Noctua suggests a second fan on the NH-U14S TR4-SP3 to improve boost headroom.

 

The 128GB kit listed below is not a huge amount more than the 64GB kit listed in the OP and is on the motherboard memory QVL.

 

Consider a Define R6 USB-C case to take advantage of the USB-C header on the motherboard.

 

You might consider a less expensive but excellent psu.

 

PCPartPicker Part List

CPU: AMD - Threadripper 2990WX 3 GHz 32-Core Processor  (€1720.19 @ Amazon France) 
CPU Cooler: Noctua - NH-U14S TR4-SP3 82.52 CFM CPU Cooler  (€79.90 @ Amazon France) 
Motherboard: Gigabyte - X399 AORUS XTREME EATX TR4 Motherboard  (€444.49 @ Amazon France) 
Memory: Kingston - HyperX Predator 128 GB (8 x 16 GB) DDR4-3000 Memory  (€906.99 @ Amazon France) 
Storage: Samsung - 970 Evo Plus 500 GB M.2-2280 Solid State Drive  (€112.00 @ Amazon France) 
Storage: Crucial - MX500 1 TB 2.5" Solid State Drive  (€129.61 @ Amazon France) 
Storage: Western Digital - Black 4 TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive  (€199.99 @ Amazon France) 
Video Card: Gigabyte - GeForce RTX 2080 Ti 11 GB AORUS XTREME Video Card  (€1306.99 @ Alternate) 
Case: Fractal Design - Define R6 ATX Mid Tower Case  (€139.99 @ Amazon France) 
Power Supply: Corsair - HX Platinum 1000 W 80+ Platinum Certified Fully Modular ATX Power Supply  (€199.90 @ Corsair) 
Case Fan: Noctua - NF-A15 PWM 140 mm Fan  (€21.90 @ Amazon France) 
Total: €5261.95
Generated by PCPartPicker 2019-05-18 09:39 CEST+0200

[Wolrajh]

Now I'm feeling stupid for not realising you could pick french retailers with PCPartPicker... /facepalm

 

Looks good overall ; however I had chosen the RAM based on the popular opinion about samsung B-die ram being perfect. Also heard it was being discontinued though. Is that Kingston b-die or am I just getting ahead of myself here ?

 

A little nod to Topachat which actually distinguish between the Fract Design R6 with and without USB-C on front panel. Also, I can get it in white : while I said I'm not too much into visuals, it would continue the amusing flourish I have here. Oldest PC is a black case, current is grey, next would logically be white. Heh.

 

Now I'm doubly torn, though. Everything seems to be on Topachat, which also does the assembly work, except for the ram ( and getting 128gb there is too close to 2k euros to my liking ). Everything is also a little bit more expensive. The corsair PSU is there, listed at the same price as the EVGA I selected in the first place.

I'm not very confident with my assembly skillz, but there are a few hundred bucks to save here...

And there is still the matter of the 2950 vs 2990. Only me can choose here, but hey, it's not easy when it's an expensive one shot

[brob]

If you check the motherboard's memory QVL you should see that the kit is on the list and validated in all slots. According to that QVL the modules use Hynix chips. It should be noted that the 2nd gen memory controller is more tolerant of memory differences. If you check the pcpartpicker page on the part you'll see a Threadripper 2950X build, although it used a different motherboard, https://fr.pcpartpicker.com/product/bLBTwP/kingston-hyperx-predator-128gb-8-x-16gb-ddr4-3000-memory-hx430c15pb3k8128.

 

There is a white version of the R6 USB-C. However, for some reason Fractal Design uses a black front panel. Not to my taste. You may like the look, https://www.fractal-design.com/home/product/cases/define-series/define-r6-usb-c-white.

 

Assembling a system is not terribly difficult, but I can understand being hesitant to do a first build on such an expensive system. Check around for other vendors that will assemble a system for a fee. If you have local independent computer stores, you may be able to get one of them to do the assembly. There may be an experienced local freelancer that does builds for a fee.

 

Have you used the Prices By Merchant in the pcpartpicker build list. It can be useful. You can also limit the merchants you want to work with. This can be done in account settings, but more easily in any list of items one the left click Merchants.

[Wolrajh]

Interesting the other person would go for 2950x for heavy engineering work and simulation instead of the 2990wx.

I'm in the process of asking questions on a few Houdini-related discord to gather opinions. Looks like it could all boil down to : will I do CPU rendering or not. We are expecting news about Mantra, the built-in Houdini CPU render engine in just two weeks, this could tip the balance in favor of one or the other come Houdini 18. But I digress!

 

I badly formulated my Ram related question ! What I meant was : what's the fuss about those infamous Samsung b-die chips? Are they really a super good piece of hardware ? Since you are pointing to sticks that make use of Hynix chips instead of what everyone swears by, I'm curious and rather willing to understand the basic stakes. RAM has always been a very important aspect of the hardware for the job, especially more so ( if I'm understanding things correctly ) given the architecture of a 2990wx.

 

Also, there is something I forgot to ask about the R6 case : it's mid tower ( albeit a big one apparently ), is that big enough, especially if down the line I may be adding another 2080ti with NVlink ( especially if I go for 2950 , using the saved money ) ? Somehow I was under the impression I'd need a full tower for comfort, airflow, etc...

 

At any rate thanks for all the infos !

[brob]

Since the gpu install in the motherboard, any case that can house the motherboard will be able to house the gpu. The only caveat being gpu length, (some cases may restrict gpu length).Modern cases are completely open from front to back. As a result good airflow is very easy to establish. Bottom and front intake, top and rear exhaust. In quiet cases, one usually exhausts out the rear leaving the top closed.

 

I can't provide any illumination on why Ryzen initially worked so well with memory modules that used Samsung b die chips. It should be noted that initially memory modules employing other chips worked well, but sometimes not at overclocked speeds. 

 

[Wolrajh]

Reviewed the R6 - indeed, I underestimated the available room. I think I was traumatized by my oooold R2. Loved it, but it was released at a time when GPUs kept growing bigger and bigger and eventually super hard to fit.

Not to mention it looks good in its glorious sobriety... Aah Fractal Design, you know my heart.

 

Anyway, I've decided to wait for Computex before committing to anything. At least to see where AMD is going, how Ryzen3 is turning out, when it will come out, and if there are plans for any more Threadrippers. This kind of link raises some interesting questions about the future of the Threadripper tech, notably about the compatibility with current X399 motherboards.

And more importantly, with the event happening in less than 2weeks, and a potential, rumoured release in early July, it sounds kind of silly to spend all my money blindly in a system that may or may not be even better with the same kind of money in about two months from now ( or maybe just less expensive ).

 

In the meantime, just in case I stick to my 2990 plans, there was something I didn't ask yet : overclocking !

What can I realistically hope for with that Noctua and a few - or even max - case fans ? I read that 4ghz was a possibility, but somehow people fail to list their cooling system. and AFAIK a 1000W psu should be enough to take care of all things energy. The Gygabyte mobo apparently is fine for a max goal of 4ghz.

[Guest]

I would go with the MSI MEG X399 Creation if overclocking. It has a better VRM than the Gigabyte board.

[brob]

The 2990X has a 250W TDP, I'd be looking at a 280mm or 360mm aio for decent overclocking.

[Wolrajh]

Then maybe something like this.
 

PCPartPicker Part List

Type	Item	Price
CPU	AMD - Threadripper 2990WX 3 GHz 32-Core Processor	€1720.19 @ Amazon France
CPU Cooler	Noctua - NH-U14S TR4-SP3 82.52 CFM CPU Cooler	€79.90 @ Amazon France
Motherboard	MSI - MEG X399 CREATION EATX TR4 Motherboard	€535.90 @ LDLC
Memory	Corsair - Dominator Platinum 64 GB (4 x 16 GB) DDR4-3200 Memory	€499.99 @ Corsair
Storage	Samsung - 970 Evo Plus 250 GB M.2-2280 Solid State Drive	€79.11 @ Amazon France
Storage	Samsung - 970 Evo Plus 1 TB M.2-2280 Solid State Drive	€228.88 @ Amazon France
Storage	Western Digital - Black 4 TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive	€199.99 @ Amazon France
Video Card	MSI - GeForce RTX 2080 Ti 11 GB GAMING X TRIO Video Card	€1219.98 @ Cdiscount
Case	Fractal Design - Define R6 ATX Mid Tower Case	€139.99 @ Amazon France
Power Supply	Corsair - HX Platinum 1000 W 80+ Platinum Certified Fully Modular ATX Power Supply	€199.90 @ Corsair
Case Fan	Noctua - NF-A15 PWM 140 mm Fan	€21.90 @ Amazon France
Case Fan	Noctua - NF-A15 PWM 140 mm Fan	€21.90 @ Amazon France
	Prices include shipping, taxes, rebates, and discounts
	Total	€4947.63
	Generated by PCPartPicker 2019-05-19 21:47 CEST+0200

Saving up on RAM ( this one's 15-15-15-36 and 1.35V ), and adding at least one fan on top for exhaust, one on bottom for intake ( have to research the safety of that, dust wise ) and could even add a second exhaust on top. Only drawback of the MEG is the lack of 10gb onboard ethernet; though I doubt it should be too relevant for a home computer.

Changed the GPU to the cheapest of the "great one" I could find. I'm saddened there is only 1 HDMI though, May have to remove the HDD bay to make it fit, since it's a huge one. Or just keep the Aorus ?

 

Would I need to add radiators to the case?

edit ; ah, was about to post when I heard the notification for Brob post. Still hitting that reply for now. Thought as much AIO would maybe be required...

[brob]

Noctua recommends an NF-A15 PWM be added to the NH-U14S TR4-SP3 to improve boost headroom.

 

I take it you don't feel a need for the front panel USB-C connector.

 

If you put an exhaust fan in the top the system will be a bit noisier as that requires removal of the sound dampening solid panel. But dust should not be that big a concern as there is a dust filter.

 

The hdd trays are modular so only those that interfere with a longer gpu would have to be removed.

[Wolrajh]

Quote

Noctua recommends an NF-A15 PWM be added to the NH-U14S TR4-SP3 to improve boost headroom.

Ooh. OOH. I thought that meant , well, add a NF-A15 somewhere. Like, on the case. Lack of familarity with english vocabulary got me there. Not to mention I am used to Noctua CPU fans already shipping in pairs and though that was the case here too. Sorry.

 

As for the usb-C, actually PCPartPicker doesn't do a distinction between standard and usb-C R6 on the listing, but the pictures hint at a USB-C variant and the amazon link indeed specifies USB-C version

[brob]

I see what you mean about the pcpartpicker listings. Confusing.

[Wolrajh]

Too bad, AMD keynote didn't really help. I had hoped for a 16c/32t CPU reveal much like the leaks and rumours lead us to believe would happen, but apparently we're capped at 12c/24t.  Sure frequencies are higher but all this look insufficient for my purposes. Not to mention I haven't seen max memory count mentionned - 64gb ? 128gb ?
There wasn't any official word on gen3 "Castle Peak" Threadripper either appart from what Dr Su allegedly told a few journalists after her keynote - it's still a thing, but that's about it. And I'm not really convinced 2950x, 2970wx and 2990wx will see any kind of price drop in July since they aren't the same family of Ryzen products as those new 3000.

 

 

Ah well. Basically I guess my ramblings are only leading to one thing : is it worth waiting for a potential mainstream 16c/32t CPU annoucement soon™ ?

Way things are looking up, to get a proper upgrade I may have to wait for next year.