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paulmohr

Simple (I hope) ram question

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Posted · Original PosterOP

I decided to upgrade my cpu now that the new ryzen cpu's are out. I plan on getting a 3600 with the gigabyte X570 elite motherboard. I also want to upgrade/replace my ram while I am at it.

 

I am curious which is the better option from a value to performance standpoint. Is it better get more ram with a slower speed, or less ram with a faster speed? LIke say 32 gigs of some slower cheaper ram, or 16 gigs of more expensive better (hopefully), faster ram?

 

Also, is it better to have 4 sticks of smaller ram, or two sticks of larger ones? I have never had a board that had 4 ram slots before. I did hear somewhere once that 2 sticks running in dual channel is actually faster than 4 sticks. I have no idea if that is true or not though, or if it is board dependant, or how long ago I heard it and maybe that doesn't apply anymore.

 

I currently have a ryzen 1500x on a cheap ab350m board with G.SKILL Aegis 16GB (2 x 8GB) 288-Pin DDR4 SDRAM DDR4 3000 (PC4 24000) for the ram. It says it is for an intel chipset I guess, but it works. I didn't notice that when I bought it, and since it worked I didn't worry too much about it. CPUZ shows it running at 1463 MHz. So I guess another option would be to just get another set of that to get me up to 32 gigs of ram. I think that set is like under 60 bucks. I would be willing to spend twice that if it was truly better ram and I would notice the difference though.

 

Any help or opinions would be welcome, thanks.

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I would opt for a 16GB 3200/3600mhz kit 


 

MSI B450 Pro Gaming Pro Carbon AC | AMD Ryzen 2700x 1.35V @ 4.1GhZ  | NZXT  Kraken X52  MSI GeForce RTX2070 Armour | Corsair Vengeance LPX (2*8) 16GB 3200MhZ | Samsung 970 evo M.2Nvme 500GB Boot  / Samsung 860 evo 500GB SSD | Corsair RM550X (2018) | Fractal Design Meshify C white | Logitech G pro WirelessGigabyte Aurus AD27QD 

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35 minutes ago, paulmohr said:

I decided to upgrade my cpu now that the new ryzen cpu's are out. I plan on getting a 3600 with the gigabyte X570 elite motherboard. I also want to upgrade/replace my ram while I am at it.

 

I am curious which is the better option from a value to performance standpoint. Is it better get more ram with a slower speed, or less ram with a faster speed? LIke say 32 gigs of some slower cheaper ram, or 16 gigs of more expensive better (hopefully), faster ram?

 

Also, is it better to have 4 sticks of smaller ram, or two sticks of larger ones? I have never had a board that had 4 ram slots before. I did hear somewhere once that 2 sticks running in dual channel is actually faster than 4 sticks. I have no idea if that is true or not though, or if it is board dependant, or how long ago I heard it and maybe that doesn't apply anymore.

 

I currently have a ryzen 1500x on a cheap ab350m board with G.SKILL Aegis 16GB (2 x 8GB) 288-Pin DDR4 SDRAM DDR4 3000 (PC4 24000) for the ram. It says it is for an intel chipset I guess, but it works. I didn't notice that when I bought it, and since it worked I didn't worry too much about it. CPUZ shows it running at 1463 MHz. So I guess another option would be to just get another set of that to get me up to 32 gigs of ram. I think that set is like under 60 bucks. I would be willing to spend twice that if it was truly better ram and I would notice the difference though.

 

Any help or opinions would be welcome, thanks.

In my experience, synthetic benchmarks is the only place where you'd see a difference when it comes to various speeds. To the naked eye, I doubt you'd notice a 1600MHz stick versus a 3200MHz. And if you're running dual channel, make sure to have at least two sticks to take advantage. Populating the four slots doesn't matter, at least in the real world. Unless you're doing some heavy editing or something that'll need 32GB, I'd just stick with the 16GB set.


CPU: Intel Core i7 4790k | RAM: Crucial 16GB @ 1866MHz |

GPU: EVGA GTX 980Ti Hybrid | Motherboard: ASUS Maximus Formula VII | 

Monitor: ROG Swift P278Q | Case: Phanteks Enthoo EVOLV ATX | PSU: Seasonic 860W

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Posted · Original PosterOP

Thanks, that is kind of what I was thinking but wasn't really sure. And ya, I don't think I will need 32 gigs of ram, I was just thinking of doing it lol. I have 16 now and to my knowledge I have never ran out of memory in anything I was doing. At least nothing popped up said I did. And nothing crashed because of running out of ram. Maybe I will just get 16 gigs of something a little better than I have. Then I will save what have for extra parts or another system. I would actually have enough left over after this upgrade to build a new system. I would just need another case and decent power supply. Might be something to cool to throw together and give to someone that really needs one.

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4 hours ago, Stylized_Violence said:

In my experience, synthetic benchmarks is the only place where you'd see a difference when it comes to various speeds. To the naked eye, I doubt you'd notice a 1600MHz stick versus a 3200MHz. And if you're running dual channel, make sure to have at least two sticks to take advantage. Populating the four slots doesn't matter, at least in the real world. Unless you're doing some heavy editing or something that'll need 32GB, I'd just stick with the 16GB set.

what??? are you serious? There is a HUGE difference between 1600 and 3200!!! 1600 at cas 8 and 3200 at cas 16 may theoretically look similar but on games, the frame rate consistency or frametime is very very noticeable.

 

@paulmohr you should get 3000+ rams at these timing and frequencies

 

3000/ cas 15

3200/ cas 16

3600/ cas 18

 

obviously, lower the better.


CPU: 8600k @4.9  (1.39v) |  Cooler: NH-U14s | Mobo: Asus Strix z390i | Ram: Gskill DDR4 Trident Z 3600 8GB x 2 16-16-16-36

GPU: Gigabyte G1 1080 GTX | Case: Prodigy ITX | Fans: NH-A14, (exhaust) NH-A12, (intake) NH-A20 (intake)

Samsung EVO 1tb | Samsung EVO 512gb x2 | Intel ssd 128gb

PSU: Powerstation 500W

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9 hours ago, Stylized_Violence said:

In my experience, synthetic benchmarks is the only place where you'd see a difference when it comes to various speeds. To the naked eye, I doubt you'd notice a 1600MHz stick versus a 3200MHz. And if you're running dual channel, make sure to have at least two sticks to take advantage. Populating the four slots doesn't matter, at least in the real world. Unless you're doing some heavy editing or something that'll need 32GB, I'd just stick with the 16GB set.

Bro? Stop telling nonsense. No difference between 1600 and 3200 MHz? One is ddr3 the other ddr4. Ryzen hugely benefits from faster ram. ‘And if you’re running dual channel make sure to have at least two sticks to take advantage’ - you NEED two sticks to run dusl

channel. With 4 you’ll run double dual channel or whatever it’s called unless it’s certain Intel / amd cpus which support quad channel.

 

ryzen 3xxx is been told to benefit from 3600mhz ram compared to the 3200 sweetspot for zen+ 


 

MSI B450 Pro Gaming Pro Carbon AC | AMD Ryzen 2700x 1.35V @ 4.1GhZ  | NZXT  Kraken X52  MSI GeForce RTX2070 Armour | Corsair Vengeance LPX (2*8) 16GB 3200MhZ | Samsung 970 evo M.2Nvme 500GB Boot  / Samsung 860 evo 500GB SSD | Corsair RM550X (2018) | Fractal Design Meshify C white | Logitech G pro WirelessGigabyte Aurus AD27QD 

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7 hours ago, paulmohr said:

Thanks, that is kind of what I was thinking but wasn't really sure. And ya, I don't think I will need 32 gigs of ram, I was just thinking of doing it lol. I have 16 now and to my knowledge I have never ran out of memory in anything I was doing. At least nothing popped up said I did. And nothing crashed because of running out of ram. Maybe I will just get 16 gigs of something a little better than I have. Then I will save what have for extra parts or another system. I would actually have enough left over after this upgrade to build a new system. I would just need another case and decent power supply. Might be something to cool to throw together and give to someone that really needs one.

Corsair RMx or be quiet 11 are good psu’s to have a look at


 

MSI B450 Pro Gaming Pro Carbon AC | AMD Ryzen 2700x 1.35V @ 4.1GhZ  | NZXT  Kraken X52  MSI GeForce RTX2070 Armour | Corsair Vengeance LPX (2*8) 16GB 3200MhZ | Samsung 970 evo M.2Nvme 500GB Boot  / Samsung 860 evo 500GB SSD | Corsair RM550X (2018) | Fractal Design Meshify C white | Logitech G pro WirelessGigabyte Aurus AD27QD 

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16 hours ago, Srnewbee said:

what??? are you serious? There is a HUGE difference between 1600 and 3200!!! 1600 at cas 8 and 3200 at cas 16 may theoretically look similar but on games, the frame rate consistency or frametime is very very noticeable.

 

@paulmohr you should get 3000+ rams at these timing and frequencies

 

3000/ cas 15

3200/ cas 16

3600/ cas 18

 

obviously, lower the better.

Then we've had different experiences, I was just pointing out some anecdotal evidence, that's all. And yes I am serious. Regular gameplay didn't seem affected. In fact I think Linus even did a video on this not too long ago and came to the same conclusion. I'm not saying you're wrong and I'm right, I think we're just approaching this from two different perspectives.

 

10 hours ago, Stormseeker9 said:

Bro? Stop telling nonsense. No difference between 1600 and 3200 MHz? One is ddr3 the other ddr4. Ryzen hugely benefits from faster ram. ‘And if you’re running dual channel make sure to have at least two sticks to take advantage’ - you NEED two sticks to run dusl

channel. With 4 you’ll run double dual channel or whatever it’s called unless it’s certain Intel / amd cpus which support quad channel.

 

ryzen 3xxx is been told to benefit from 3600mhz ram compared to the 3200 sweetspot for zen+ 

When saying there wouldn't be a difference, I didn't mean they were identical; I was merely pointing out that for day to day use and for many games you would be hard pressed to notice a tangible difference. Obviously they are two different pieces of RAM. Clearly I've upset @Srnewbee with that comment, but in my experience there wasn't much. A frame here and there but nothing that noticeable to the naked eye. Again, our experiences are clearly different.

 

I mentioned the two sticks because some people will get one stick of 16GB, as opposed to two 8GB ones and taking advantage of the dual channel architecture. Running four sticks on a board that doesn't support quad channel, won't hinder performance in any tangible way, which is what I thought OP was originally asking. That's what I meant by that comment.

 

I'm here to learn just like all of us, and I don't want to spread misinformation. I gave some personal experiences and lead my comment with that statement. My apologies if that came off as 'nonsense'. 


CPU: Intel Core i7 4790k | RAM: Crucial 16GB @ 1866MHz |

GPU: EVGA GTX 980Ti Hybrid | Motherboard: ASUS Maximus Formula VII | 

Monitor: ROG Swift P278Q | Case: Phanteks Enthoo EVOLV ATX | PSU: Seasonic 860W

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Ryzen loves good memory. On an Intel system, you don't really see as huge an improvement in performance from ram, but AMD themselves recommend 3600mhz ddr4 for best performance on the new Ryzen 3000's. From cheap ddr4 3000mhz cl16 to ddr4 3200mhz cl14, you might see 3-5% in performance on a ryzen system

 

I have 2 new ryzen systems that I bought last week (a 3600x and 3700x). i went with more expensive samsung b-die ram gSkill ddr4 3200mhz CL14. Both i have running out of box @ 3600mhz 16-16-16 1.35v. You get what you pay for


Ryzen 3700x w/ Arctic Cooling 34 eSports DUO || MSI B450 Gaming Pro Carbon AC || GSkill DDR4 3200 CL14 @ 3600 16-16-16 || EVGA 2070 XC Gaming || WD Black 1T NVME, WD Black 2T 7200 rpm || EVGA SuperNova 750 G1+

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21 hours ago, paulmohr said:

I decided to upgrade my cpu now that the new ryzen cpu's are out. I plan on getting a 3600 with the gigabyte X570 elite motherboard. I also want to upgrade/replace my ram while I am at it.

 

I am curious which is the better option from a value to performance standpoint. Is it better get more ram with a slower speed, or less ram with a faster speed? LIke say 32 gigs of some slower cheaper ram, or 16 gigs of more expensive better (hopefully), faster ram?

 

Also, is it better to have 4 sticks of smaller ram, or two sticks of larger ones? I have never had a board that had 4 ram slots before. I did hear somewhere once that 2 sticks running in dual channel is actually faster than 4 sticks. I have no idea if that is true or not though, or if it is board dependant, or how long ago I heard it and maybe that doesn't apply anymore.

 

I currently have a ryzen 1500x on a cheap ab350m board with G.SKILL Aegis 16GB (2 x 8GB) 288-Pin DDR4 SDRAM DDR4 3000 (PC4 24000) for the ram. It says it is for an intel chipset I guess, but it works. I didn't notice that when I bought it, and since it worked I didn't worry too much about it. CPUZ shows it running at 1463 MHz. So I guess another option would be to just get another set of that to get me up to 32 gigs of ram. I think that set is like under 60 bucks. I would be willing to spend twice that if it was truly better ram and I would notice the difference though.

 

Any help or opinions would be welcome, thanks.

Hello, man!

 

First of all I want to correct you on some miss conceptions you have. CPU-Z says your ram runs at "1463MHz" because is dual channel. That means your ram is running at 1463x2=2926MHz≈3000MHz.

 

About whether you should go by 2x16gb or 4x8gb, supposely only 2 slots are always better for getting higher frecuency than 4. It stress less the motherboard. But if you really wanna go with 4, buy four single slot DIMMs instead of two kits of 2x8gb.

At the end, it should be cheapper and better the 2x16gb kit.

 

About the motherboard, you really don't need a X570 for Ryzen 3xxx. Get a good X470 for less (ASRock Taichi, Gigabyte Gaming 7, Asus Crosshair VII WiFi) and you'll be perfect and save a few bucks. If you don't belive me, watch youtube reviews. There is no performance difference between an X470 and X570.

 

I hope I didn't forget anything.

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Posted · Original PosterOP

Yep, I knew my memory was running at 3000MHz, that is why I said I wasn't worried about it. If it was really running at 1463 I would be pissed lol. As for the amount of ram and 2 sticks vs 4 sticks I guess I wasn't clear enough on that. What I meant was should I still with the 2x8 3000 ram I have and add another 2 sticks of it to get 32 gigs of ram. Or upgrade to something better at maybe 3200 or 3600, also with 2x8 sticks running in dual channel. That is where the using 4 sticks of ram questions came in. Moving up to 32 gigs with the same ram I currently have would only be like 60 bucks since I already have 16 gigs of it. Going with 16 gigs of new faster ram would probably cost me twice that amount. So the questions is do you spend twice as much for faster ram, or half as much for double the ram. Or not worry about it, live with the 16 gigs I have and keep my money lol.

 

And yes, I knew about the motherboard thing too. I was actually hoping I could just use my asrock ab350m and update the bios on it. However I can't find a 3000 series bios for my exact board because I don't have the pro version, just the standard ab350. If the bios from the pro boards will work on my 350 that might be an option. And yes, I could get a b450 or x470 for less money and update the bios on one of those. I was just going to get the $200 gigabite x570 because I saw where it had really good vrms on it and it would work right out of the box. And if I am going to fork out the money and go through the trouble to replace my motherboard I might as well get one that is current rather than one that is on its way to be being outdated.

 

As I said in another thread I am seriously considering re thinking the whole thing at this point. When I posted this I hadn't thought about having to re install windows and mess with that. Or risk not re installing windows and hoping it doesn't give me any issues. Re installing windows would be a HUGE pain for me. Betweeen re installing FSX, all the addons and re configuring it to get it to work right, and doing the same thing for my Komplete Kontrol midi keyboard with all the software, vsts and DAWS and setting it back up again it just doesn't seem worth the hassle. Not to mention all the other stuff I have installed. Those are just the two that would be the biggest pains. I am simply not that ambitious I guess lol.

 

Now I am considering going with a 2700x instead. That would still be a pretty good improvement over my 1500x and it will work with my current mobo and a bios update. It would also be a lot cheaper. Unless I can find out for sure the bios update from one of the asrock 350 pro boards will work on my board even though it isn't listed in the download section for my specific motherboard. Then I would just go with the 3600 since the two are bascially the same price. So now I am more confused then when I started and have no clue what I am going to do. Which is basically how I live my life so no big deal lol.

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Posted · Original PosterOP

I went with a 3600 on a tomahawk b450 board with 32 gigs (2x16) of 3200 mhz ram. I discovered we have a micro center in Detriot which a little over an hour away from me so I ran over there today and got it all. I even saved 50 bucks because I got a motherboard and cpu at the same time. Down side is it cost me 20 bucks to drive there and back lol. I think I need a new cooler now. The cheap one I had worked ok for my 1500x but I don't think its cutting it on the 3600. Idles at around 40-45 and if I stress it with cpuz it goes up to 75 or so and will only boost to around 4.0-4.1.

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On ‎7‎/‎17‎/‎2019 at 6:19 AM, Stylized_Violence said:

Then we've had different experiences, I was just pointing out some anecdotal evidence, that's all. And yes I am serious. Regular gameplay didn't seem affected. In fact I think Linus even did a video on this not too long ago and came to the same conclusion. I'm not saying you're wrong and I'm right, I think we're just approaching this from two different perspectives.

 

When saying there wouldn't be a difference, I didn't mean they were identical; I was merely pointing out that for day to day use and for many games you would be hard pressed to notice a tangible difference. Obviously they are two different pieces of RAM. Clearly I've upset @Srnewbee with that comment, but in my experience there wasn't much. A frame here and there but nothing that noticeable to the naked eye. Again, our experiences are clearly different.

 

I mentioned the two sticks because some people will get one stick of 16GB, as opposed to two 8GB ones and taking advantage of the dual channel architecture. Running four sticks on a board that doesn't support quad channel, won't hinder performance in any tangible way, which is what I thought OP was originally asking. That's what I meant by that comment.

 

I'm here to learn just like all of us, and I don't want to spread misinformation. I gave some personal experiences and lead my comment with that statement. My apologies if that came off as 'nonsense'. 

thanks for such a polite remark! But ram speeds do matter. Linus' videos can sometimes be a bit misguided. Hopefully, Anthony can do a better video. I think Linus' videos are sometimes geared towards more casual gamers so he shuns away from concepts like frametime. So many people fail to understand the difference between fps and frametime. I used to own a i7 3770k just a couple of months ago. I was initially on 16gb of 1333mhz and I upgraded to 2400mhz ram. The difference was day and night. Games ran much more smoothly and framedips did not occur as often. interestingly, the "fps" was pretty much the same. Don't trust the fps counters because they only tell the partial truth. 


CPU: 8600k @4.9  (1.39v) |  Cooler: NH-U14s | Mobo: Asus Strix z390i | Ram: Gskill DDR4 Trident Z 3600 8GB x 2 16-16-16-36

GPU: Gigabyte G1 1080 GTX | Case: Prodigy ITX | Fans: NH-A14, (exhaust) NH-A12, (intake) NH-A20 (intake)

Samsung EVO 1tb | Samsung EVO 512gb x2 | Intel ssd 128gb

PSU: Powerstation 500W

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13 hours ago, Srnewbee said:

thanks for such a polite remark! But ram speeds do matter. Linus' videos can sometimes be a bit misguided. Hopefully, Anthony can do a better video. I think Linus' videos are sometimes geared towards more casual gamers so he shuns away from concepts like frametime. So many people fail to understand the difference between fps and frametime. I used to own a i7 3770k just a couple of months ago. I was initially on 16gb of 1333mhz and I upgraded to 2400mhz ram. The difference was day and night. Games ran much more smoothly and framedips did not occur as often. interestingly, the "fps" was pretty much the same. Don't trust the fps counters because they only tell the partial truth. 

I'll bear that in mind, and I've never even heard of frametime before so I'll have to look into that. Maybe I wasn't paying attention earlier. Thanks!


CPU: Intel Core i7 4790k | RAM: Crucial 16GB @ 1866MHz |

GPU: EVGA GTX 980Ti Hybrid | Motherboard: ASUS Maximus Formula VII | 

Monitor: ROG Swift P278Q | Case: Phanteks Enthoo EVOLV ATX | PSU: Seasonic 860W

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