Picking a CPU

[Akamii]

2 minutes ago, Ground said:

How much are the 1400 and 1500X? Aren't those comparable in Single Thread with the locked i5 and beat it in multithread, both while keeping the option to upgrade in a couple of years to a new CPU on the same Motherboard?

ryzen 1500x = 225$
1400 not available.

[Akamii]

2 minutes ago, Changis said:

it turns out the 7600 was a k apparently.. and for the price of ryzen where he lives, he might be better of getting an i7 if that's comparably cheaper than ryzen cpus

if OP can wait, the prices may fall as they may just have become available there..

i7 6700 which is the lowest one here, costs 305$ also there 4790 for the same price.

[Ground]

How much would be a used Xeon e3 1230 v3 be? Basically an i7 4770 without the iGPU.

[Not_Sean]

8 minutes ago, tom_w141 said:

No its not but 4 thread cpus will be short lived ESPECIALLY locked ones. Why do you think coffeelake's i5 is a 6 core? 4 thread cpus are dead/dying. They have 95-100% utilisation in new AAA titles so future games they will become the cpu bottleneck.

Everyone is saying this but we really have very little proof that games are going to be using more core (all except Frostbite) and yes I agree we will get there it could only be in like 4 years, Hell we still waiting on DX12 to become the standard 

 

Also IMO the only reason intel is doing more cores on their CPU's now is to compete with Ryzen as consumers this more cores is better, and because intel has been dragging their feet for so damn look at compared to ryzen a 4c/4t looks old fashion but for gaming it really isn't that bad.

 

Hell a G4560 (RIP little processor) could do amazing things at 1080p with a 1060, and a i5 flattens one of them. 

 

 

TL:DR i5 is still going to be relevant for a long time to come, and when it does become unusable we will already be on the next gen (or two) of intel chips. Don't bother future proofing as now with competition in the CPU market things are going to start taking big steps per Gen, rather buy decent now and go big 

[Changis]

1 minute ago, Akamii said:

i7 6700 which is the lowest one here, costs 305$ also there 4790 for the same price.

i see.. how long have the ryzens been available where you live?
also, what is your main usage and plan for your computer, is it a gaming pc you want to update a little now and again when you can afford it or a beast that willl last you for many years without changing anything?

ryzen is probably best for upgradability at this point however..

[Akamii]

4 minutes ago, Changis said:

i see.. how long have the ryzens been available where you live?
also, what is your main usage and plan for your computer, is it a gaming pc you want to update a little now and again when you can afford it or a beast that willl last you for many years without changing anything?

ryzen is probably best for upgradability at this point however..

ryzens are here since they were released.
gonna build a gaming pc, and maybe i will upgrade it in 1 year or 2
so i was just thinkin about an upgradeable rig, so i don't have to buy new mobo and rams.
if i cant afford ryzen 1600, you think i5 7600k is the best for this situation?

[Changis]

3 minutes ago, Akamii said:

ryzens are here since they were released.
gonna build a gaming pc, and maybe i will upgrade it in 1 year or 2
so i was just thinkin about an upgradeable rig, so i don't have to buy new mobo and rams.
if i cant afford ryzen 1600, you think i5 7600k is the best for this situation?

yes, the 7600k is unlocked so you can overclock it, just get a good cooler for it, you can upgrade to an i7 later on when/if it gets cheaper or you save up for it.

do you have a list of parts you are buying? choosing a good psu for instance is important.. no use spending hundreds on awesome hardware and cheap out on a psu that starts to smell funny when you try to benchmark

[tom_w141]

18 minutes ago, Not_Sean said:

we really have very little proof

Many newer AAA titles like BF1 pin an i5 at 100% usage all the time. 4 thread cpus will soon be a bottleneck unless you stick to older titles. It's already happening. Intel wouldn't be bringing out 6 core coffeelake otherwise (this isn't a response to Ryzen it would have been in dev longer than that)

[Not_Sean]

21 minutes ago, tom_w141 said:

Many newer AAA titles like BF1 pin an i5 at 100% usage all the time. 4 thread cpus will soon be a bottleneck unless you stick to older titles. It's already happening. Intel wouldn't be bringing out 6 core coffeelake otherwise (this isn't a response to Ryzen it would have been in dev longer than that)

Besides the Frostbite engine (BF1, battlefront) what other engines, now or upcoming are going to use more ? Even the new source engine thats been rolled out doesn't. And even at 100% useage a G4560 with a 1060 is still cracking 80+ fps on ultra, that is hardly any reason to claim its not enough.  

 

I do agree with you, i5 will soon not be enough, but that is still a few years off. I just can't say its dead when only 1 game engine uses more and still runs great on them. its when the game is not getting 60 FPS on High that i'll fully support the notion that the i5 is dead and don't buy one if you on a budget. 

[tom_w141]

2 minutes ago, Not_Sean said:

Besides the Frostbite engine (BF1, battlefront) what other engines, now or upcoming are going to use more ? Even the new source engine thats been rolled out doesn't. And even at 100% useage a G4560 with a 1060 is still cracking 80+ fps on ultra, that is hardly any reason to claim its not enough.  

 

I do agree with you, i5 will soon not be enough, but that is still a few years off. I just can't say its dead when only 1 game engine uses more and still runs great on them. its when the game is not getting 60 FPS on High that i'll fully support the notion that the i5 is dead and don't buy one if you on a budget. 

There are plenty but its past midnight and I don't have time to research the exact names now, but right off the top of my head? Destiny 2

[Not_Sean]

3 minutes ago, tom_w141 said:

There are plenty but its past midnight and I don't have time to research the exact names now, but right off the top of my head? Destiny 2

Nope, not Destiny 2 as its running a modified version of their D1 engine.

[tom_w141]

7 minutes ago, Not_Sean said:

Nope, not Destiny 2 as its running a modified version of their D1 engine.

It's allegedly being worked specifically with multi core in mind. With Intel's assistance, they said at E3.

 

Current information rather than predicting:

 

i5 Pegged 95-100% Modern Titles:

https://youtu.be/MgHnLu6k0D4?t=17m50s

https://youtu.be/MgHnLu6k0D4?t=20m14s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=76Z8JUiQimo

http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/answers/id-3208695/100-cpu-usage-gaming.html

https://us.battle.net/forums/en/overwatch/topic/20757525573

 

If I can find that in 1 minute via google whilst falling asleep then they're not the only examples.

[Not_Sean]

9 minutes ago, tom_w141 said:

It's allegedly being worked specifically with multi core in mind. With Intel's assistance, they said at E3.

 

Current information rather than predicting:

 

i5 Pegged 95-100% Modern Titles:

https://youtu.be/MgHnLu6k0D4?t=17m50s

https://youtu.be/MgHnLu6k0D4?t=20m14s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=76Z8JUiQimo

http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/answers/id-3208695/100-cpu-usage-gaming.html

https://us.battle.net/forums/en/overwatch/topic/20757525573

 

If I can find that in 1 minute via google whilst falling asleep then they're not the only examples.

you not seeming to understand though, a CPU at 100% isn't the end of the world, in gaming something will ALWAYS be running at 100% there will forever be a bottleneck in a computer. my point is the bottleneck in this case isn't a big deal as its still able to deliver over 60 fps very easily, therefore for gaming the experience at the same graphics as a much more expensive CPU on the same GPU is the same, If the G4560 with a 1060 can do over 60 FPS in BF1 (it goes up to 80+) what is the issue, it is not limiting your gaming ? 

 

The question than is do you stare at the task manager or do you play the games, remember the target market for these are budget guys, not hardcore overclockers not L33T gamers, people who want to play the latest games at high settings for as cheap as possible and you cannot tell me that a i5 or even if you can find one a G4560 is a bad buy in any regard. 

[Akamii]

2 hours ago, Changis said:

yes, the 7600k is unlocked so you can overclock it, just get a good cooler for it, you can upgrade to an i7 later on when/if it gets cheaper or you save up for it.

do you have a list of parts you are buying? choosing a good psu for instance is important.. no use spending hundreds on awesome hardware and cheap out on a psu that starts to smell funny when you try to benchmark

520w seasonic

[NoMercy]

If i were you, i would buy the cheapest one, since all of them in your list are considered "dead". Buy the cheapest one and call it a day, then save up to buy next generation cpu.

 

I assume you are building new rig and not upgrading from existing.

[Akamii]

1 minute ago, NoMercy said:

If i were you, i would buy the cheapest one, since all of them in your list are considered "dead". Buy the cheapest one and call it a day, then save up to buy next generation cpu.

 

I assume you are building new rig and not upgrading from existing.

ye so better to buy one with LGA 1151 so its easier to upgrade right?

[NoMercy]

Just now, Akamii said:

ye so better to buy one with LGA 1151 so its easier to upgrade right?

How fast do you save up money? LGA 1151 is kind of "dead" too. If you can save up your next bucket of money within 6 months, then I would say go for 1151. If you need 2-3 more years to save up, then 1150 & 1151 are equally dead, get the cheapest, you are going to upgrade everything.

[Akamii]

3 hours ago, NoMercy said:

How fast do you save up money? LGA 1151 is kind of "dead" too. If you can save up your next bucket of money within 6 months, then I would say go for 1151. If you need 2-3 more years to save up, then 1150 & 1151 are equally dead, get the cheapest, you are going to upgrade everything.

i thought the last gen was 7th and its LGA 1151 ?

[NoMercy]

23 minutes ago, Akamii said:

i thought the last gen was 7th and its LGA 1151 ?

Yeah, but intel has minimal improvement on the same platform. Means by the time your cpu cant keep up your work, you have to upgrade your cpu and mobo anyways.

 

Thats why if you can save up quickly, you can buy the cheapest 1151 now, and upgrade to 7700k/7700 while it is still viable.

 

Rumored said upcoming intel cpu will feature 6c/6t and 6c/12t. So even 7700k will be outdated very quickly.

[Akamii]

1 hour ago, NoMercy said:

Yeah, but intel has minimal improvement on the same platform. Means by the time your cpu cant keep up your work, you have to upgrade your cpu and mobo anyways.

 

Thats why if you can save up quickly, you can buy the cheapest 1151 now, and upgrade to 7700k/7700 while it is still viable.

 

Rumored said upcoming intel cpu will feature 6c/6t and 6c/12t. So even 7700k will be outdated very quickly.

aha i think i got your point now, u mean LGA 1151 is already old enough to be replaced soon by a new socket, so buying LGA 1151 or 1150 doesnt really matter in the future, thanks i really didnt think about that.

[Akamii]

.. [deleted]

[tom_w141]

7 hours ago, Not_Sean said:

you not seeming to understand though, a CPU at 100% isn't the end of the world

Sorry it was late I had gone. It is you who doesn't understand how fps works. Whilst a CPU like the G4560 may keep up with a 1060 in some games look at its 0.1 and 1% lows. These mean waaaaay more than avg frame rate, hell an average frame rate of 30 would look great if consistency was good. A cpu at 100% will induce stutter and lower minimum framerates which are far more noticeable than whatever the avg is. A movie is 24 fps but you never say it looks shit do you? This is because the frames are incredibly consistent. Avg fps is just a number, visually 0.1 and 1% lows mean far more and will be felt by the user. You can't have good minimum framerates and be at 100% usage.

 

7 hours ago, Not_Sean said:

in gaming something will ALWAYS be running at 100% there will forever be a bottleneck

Without some sort of frame limiting this is true, but it should always be the gpu. CPU bottleneck introduces the problems mentioned above.