Large(ish) Wireless Network Problems

[dbmeed]

My father and I work as IT support for a small local college, on top of various other jobs, purely because we are the only ones somewhat computer literate. I have a basic understanding of most simple networking stuff; I took a 1 year course in network support at community college. That being said, Im still not the sharpest tool in the shed, so go easy on me if theres a simple fix that Im completely overlooking.

 

Normally, there are only about 70-80 users that are on the network-Students and staff. Administration office is on a completely separate network and has no bearing on this. 

The network in question is currently comprised of several Linksys MFDs that are acting as wireless access points. For the ~70 students, this is adequate, and performs as well as needed. However, about 5-6 times a year, this college hosts weekend retreats, with upwards of 300-400 guests, plus students and staff/their families. On such occasions, the network completely slows down, unable to handle the load of that many users. 

My question is, what is the main limitation when trying have a network like this, and where is the problem coming from? Is it the APs, not being able to handle the load? Or are older switches/routers the fault here? 

 

In my admittedly limited experience, Im assuming part of the problem is that we are using consumer level equipment, and it is not designed to handle such loads. The other problem Im guessing we have is that users are connecting to an AP at one end of the building, then walking to the other, but their device is still trying to maintain a connection at the other end other the building, slowing the response time, and thus slowing everyone else down as. (Not sure if anyone understands that, or even if it makes sense for that matter; Im bad at explanations)

 

 

TL;DR -  Im looking for some kind of solution where I can have 400+ users on a wireless network without the whole thing going down. Budget is pretty limited; at most we can get about $1000 for this project. If this is not feasible in such a budget, please let me know what I should be looking at for a budget for a project such as this. 

 

Apologies for wall of text and making you read something that probably makes no sense. 

 

Any help, suggestions, or comments appreciated!

Thanks!

[tt2468]

4 minutes ago, dbmeed said:

My father and I work as IT support for a small local college, on top of various other jobs, purely because we are the only ones somewhat computer literate. I have a basic understanding of most simple networking stuff; I took a 1 year course in network support at community college. That being said, Im still not the sharpest tool in the shed, so go easy on me if theres a simple fix that Im completely overlooking.

 

Normally, there are only about 70-80 users that are on the network-Students and staff. Administration office is on a completely separate network and has no bearing on this. 

The network in question is currently comprised of several Linksys MFDs that are acting as wireless access points. For the ~70 students, this is adequate, and performs as well as needed. However, about 5-6 times a year, this college hosts weekend retreats, with upwards of 300-400 guests, plus students and staff/their families. On such occasions, the network completely slows down, unable to handle the load of that many users. 

My question is, what is the main limitation when trying have a network like this, and where is the problem coming from? Is it the APs, not being able to handle the load? Or are older switches/routers the fault here? 

 

In my admittedly limited experience, Im assuming part of the problem is that we are using consumer level equipment, and it is not designed to handle such loads. The other problem Im guessing we have is that users are connecting to an AP at one end of the building, then walking to the other, but their device is still trying to maintain a connection at the other end other the building, slowing the response time, and thus slowing everyone else down as. (Not sure if anyone understands that, or even if it makes sense for that matter; Im bad at explanations)

 

 

TL;DR -  Im looking for some kind of solution where I can have 400+ users on a wireless network without the whole thing going down. Budget is pretty limited; at most we can get about $1000 for this project. If this is not feasible in such a budget, please let me know what I should be looking at for a budget for a project such as this. 

 

Apologies for wall of text and making you read something that probably makes no sense. 

 

Any help, suggestions, or comments appreciated!

Thanks!

First of all, can your connection even handle it? It would not be worth upgrading your wifi if your internet speed is less than 300Mbps. 

[themctipers]

routers that can't support all those clients at once

not enough routers to serve clients (4 routers serving 25 clients is worse than 5 serving 20)

the connection speed is bad because the ISP speed is bad, or throttling (100mb/25 people is 4mb/person, but 100mb over 5 people is 20mb/person)

[dbmeed]

2 minutes ago, tt2468 said:

First of all, can your connection even handle it? It would not be worth upgrading your wifi if your internet speed is less than 300Mbps. 

Our speed is about 90/10; the best package they offer in our area, so an upgrade isn't an option for now. That being said, while the speed would be slow, would it not be possible to provide at least some connection for many users-just enough for facebook/email/twitter-on 90Mbps?

1 minute ago, themctipers said:

routers that can't support all those clients at once

not enough routers to serve clients (4 routers serving 25 clients is worse than 5 serving 20)

the connection speed is bad because the ISP speed is bad, or throttling (100mb/25 people is 4mb/person, but 100mb over 5 people is 20mb/person)

The routers that we are using are old cisco enterprise ones that we got from a school that was upgrading, not sure the models but they should be able to handle that many clients. We only have 2 though. Comment above addresses ISP issue.

[themctipers]

2 minutes ago, dbmeed said:

Our speed is about 90/10; the best package they offer in our area, so an upgrade isn't an option for now. That being said, while the speed would be slow, would it not be possible to provide at least some connection for many users-just enough for facebook/email/twitter-on 90Mbps?

The routers that we are using are old cisco enterprise ones that we got from a school that was upgrading, not sure the models but they should be able to handle that many clients. We only have 2 though. Comment above addresses ISP issue.

it wont be enough for facebook/email/twitter

90mbps divided over 300/400 people, yeah not gonna end out well.

even at that, there will be people on youtube, netflix, etc

[dbmeed]

Just now, themctipers said:

it wont be enough for facebook/email/twitter

90mbps divided over 300/400 people, yeah not gonna end out well.

even at that, there will be people on youtube, netflix, etc

Ok, so if we can manage to get past the ISP issue, do you think that would solve the problem? What would the next step be?

[tt2468]

1 minute ago, dbmeed said:

Our speed is about 90/10; the best package they offer in our area, so an upgrade isn't an option for now. That being said, while the speed would be slow, would it not be possible to provide at least some connection for many users-just enough for facebook/email/twitter-on 90Mbps?

The routers that we are using are old cisco enterprise ones that we got from a school that was upgrading, not sure the models but they should be able to handle that many clients. We only have 2 though. Comment above addresses ISP issue.

So if you really want to upgrade, you will need some REALLY good QOS. Here is what I'm thinking:

• Edgerouter Pro: https://www.amazon.com/Ubiquiti-Networks-Edgerouter-Router-ERPro-8/dp/B00IA5J8M8
• Ruckus r300s or r500s. Probably unleashed editions

The Edgerouter Pro has fq_codel, which is one of the best QOS models out there. That is your only hope for getting any amount of usable speed with that many people connected. Since I can almost guarantee you that someone will suggest Unifi, I will tell you that the only AP they offer that would be able to serve that many people is https://unifi-hd.ubnt.com/

 

 

[themctipers]

Just now, dbmeed said:

Ok, so if we can manage to get past the ISP issue, do you think that would solve the problem? What would the next step be?

nothing. assuming you're using a gigabit switch, and are connecting gigabit routers to there, the bandwidth would be a gigabit or about 125MB/s (theoretical), and that should be enough to satisfy the crowd.

again, maybe the routers cannot handle the users but you can only figure that out when you have the internet speed to saturate the router