To M.2 or not to M.2

[HCPS123]

So I'm looking to get the Evoc P775DM3-G and on I'm the customization part.  http://www.hidevolution.com/evoc-clevo-p775dm3-g-custom-built-gaming-desktop-replacement-laptop.html

 

 So I just learned about the M.2 slot and I was wondering if I should get one.  I definitely want 1TB of storage but from what I read the only way to make it worth it is to get the Samsung 960 EVO 1TB M.2 PCIe 3.0 x4 NVMe 3D-VNAND SSD - Up to 3,200 MB/s Read-1,900 MB/s Write +$530.00

 

I plan on using this laptop for gaming, watching movies and I was wondering if it was worth the extra 200 dollars?

[Zyndo]

40 minutes ago, HCPS123 said:

Snip

For your workload, an NVME drive and RAID 1 would be wastes of money. NVME high performance drives like the 960 EVO would decrease boot times slightly and decrease gaming level load times slightly. but we're talking minimal improvements over normal AHCI (Sata speeds) SSD's. If you're the kind of guy where money is no object and having the best of the best is all that is important.... then you want the NVMe M.2 drive.... but if you value money:performance ratio, then anything above a normal AHCI SSD is wasteful to you.

 

RAID 1 simply clones your storage to a second storage drive. Its Important if you want redundancy. Its Important if you want redundancy. Its a 100% waste of money if you don't need it (most consumers do not need it). You would essentially be paying for 2TB of storage, but only capable of using 1TB of it. Almost all normal users would find 2TB of storage more useful than a cloned drive on the highly remote chance one drive fails. Kapeesh? RAID 0 is typically more useful to most consumers but even then some people argue its more hassle than its worth.

 

 

 

SO, you probably do not need to NVMe M.2 (you CAN get AHCI M.2 drives to bring the cost down if all you want is the M.2 form factor)... that being said, not everything in computer building is about what you "NEED" (not for some people anyway). So at the end of the day its up to you.

[RadiatingLight]

1 minute ago, Zyndo said:

Its Important if you want redundancy. Its Important if you want redundancy

Haha, I see what you did there

[Streetguru]

46 minutes ago, HCPS123 said:

 

Why not just get like an MSI laptop for much less money that still has a 1060 and i7? it still turbos pretty high and would be more than enough for gaming

https://ark.intel.com/products/97185/Intel-Core-i7-7700HQ-Processor-6M-Cache-up-to-3_80-GHz
$1100 for 60hz
https://www.amazon.com/MSI-GP62MVR-Leopard-Pro-218-i7-6700HQ/dp/B01M0COXDI/ref=sr_1_9?ie=UTF8&qid=1485757564&sr=8-9&keywords=MSI+1060

$1400 here for 120hz

https://www.amazon.com/MSI-GP72VR-Leopard-Pro-281-Performance/dp/B01N0V9PFR/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1485757867&sr=8-2&keywords=MSI+1060+120hz

[HCPS123]

27 minutes ago, Zyndo said:

For your workload, an NVME drive and RAID 1 would be wastes of money. NVME high performance drives like the 960 EVO would decrease boot times slightly and decrease gaming level load times slightly. but we're talking minimal improvements over normal AHCI (Sata speeds) SSD's. If you're the kind of guy where money is no object and having the best of the best is all that is important.... then you want the NVMe M.2 drive.... but if you value money:performance ratio, then anything above a normal AHCI SSD is wasteful to you.

 

RAID 1 simply clones your storage to a second storage device. Its Important if you want redundancy. Its Important if you want redundancy. Its a 100% waste of money if you don't need it (most consumers do not need it). You would essentially be paying for 2TB of storage, but only capable of using 1TB of it. Almost all normal users would find 2TB of storage more useful than a cloned drive on the highly remote chance one drive fails. Kapeesh? RAID 0 is typically more useful to most consumers but even then some people argue its more hassle than its worth.

 

 

 

SO, you probably do not need to M.2... that being said, not everything in computer building is about what you "NEED" (not for some people anyway). So at the end of the day its up to you.

Thank you so much for answering my question   Just to make sure I fully understand what you're saying, not only do I not need a M.2 drive but I also don't need the Samsung 850 (Evo or Pro) drive.  And I am definitely someone who values money:performance

 

Also sorry about the RAID question, just after I posted it I found the answer in the Common questions thread.

[Zyndo]

1 minute ago, HCPS123 said:

Thank you so much for answering my question   Just to make sure I fully understand what you're saying, not only do I not need a M.2 drive but I also don't need the Samsung 850 (Evo or Pro) drive.  And I am definitely someone who values money:performance

Well, there are definitely definitive advantages of SSD's over normal HDD"s. I myself have an 850 EVO 500GB and I like it. However it is one of the more expensive 2.5" SSD's on the market right now, so you may be more interested in something like an A-Data SP550, Crucial MX300, OCZ TR150, or something to that effect; an SSD which is still plenty good (and significantly better than an HDD) but is a fair bit cheaper per GB. I would absolutely highly recommend an SSD of some sort for any system if you can afford it, but spending A LOT more in order to increase that SSD's performance (even if its 5-8x faster like it would be on a 960 EVO) usually makes very little real-world performance difference in your kind of workload.

 

5 minutes ago, HCPS123 said:

Also sorry about the RAID question, just after I posted it I found the answer in the Common questions thread.

Don't be sorry about asking questions. Its how one learns =)

[JoJoNL]

I just wanted to say. I made the switch to an 2,5gb read m.2 nvme and couldn't be happier! Everything just feels moor fluid.

[HCPS123]

10 minutes ago, Streetguru said:

Why not just get like an MSI laptop for much less money that still has a 1060 and i7? it still turbos pretty high and would be more than enough for gaming

https://ark.intel.com/products/97185/Intel-Core-i7-7700HQ-Processor-6M-Cache-up-to-3_80-GHz
$1100 for 60hz
https://www.amazon.com/MSI-GP62MVR-Leopard-Pro-218-i7-6700HQ/dp/B01M0COXDI/ref=sr_1_9?ie=UTF8&qid=1485757564&sr=8-9&keywords=MSI+1060

$1400 here for 120hz

https://www.amazon.com/MSI-GP72VR-Leopard-Pro-281-Performance/dp/B01N0V9PFR/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1485757867&sr=8-2&keywords=MSI+1060+120hz

Because Hidevolution was highly recommended to me on this forum, both for their customization options and because they have great customer service and are reliable.  If I'm not over a grand in something I definitely want to make sure they seller are highly reliable, both with producing the product and dealing with the warranty.

[Streetguru]

2 minutes ago, HCPS123 said:

Because Hidevolution was highly recommended to me on this forum, both for their customization options and because they have great customer service and are reliable.  If I'm not over a grand in something I definitely want to make sure they seller are highly reliable, both with producing the product and dealing with the warranty.

I'm fairly certain MSI is going to be fine, and far cheaper, do you already have accessories for your future gaming laptop set up?

To answer the question, the NVME drive is not worth it in the slightest for your workload

[HCPS123]

6 minutes ago, Zyndo said:

Well, there are definitely definitive advantages of SSD's over normal HDD"s. I myself have an 850 EVO 500GB and I like it. However it is one of the more expensive 2.5" SSD's on the market right now, so you may be more interested in something like an A-Data SP550, Crucial MX300, OCZ TR150, or something to that effect; an SSD which is still plenty good (and significantly better than an HDD) but is a fair bit cheaper per GB. I would absolutely highly recommend an SSD of some sort for any system if you can afford it, but spending A LOT more in order to increase that SSD's performance (even if its 5-8x faster like it would be on a 960 EVO) usually makes very little real-world performance difference in your kind of workload.

 

Don't be sorry about asking questions. Its how one learns =)

Thank you   Since I'm getting this from Hidevolution and not building it myself I only have 3 choices to pick from my storage drive (well more than 3 but I got rid of all those that weren't 1TB).

 

1TB Solid State Hybrid Drive w/ 32GB NAND SSD +$114.00

Samsung 850 EVO Series (3D VNAND Tech) SATA3 6Gb/s 1TB SSD +$324.00

Samsung 850 Pro Series (3D VNAND Tech) SATA3 6Gb/s 1TB SSD +$480.00

 

So do you think I should go with the NAND SSD over the EVO?  Or is the EVO worth the extra 200 dollars performance and or reliability wise?

 

[Streetguru]

5 minutes ago, HCPS123 said:

Thank you   Since I'm getting this from Hidevolution and not building it myself I only have 3 choices to pick from my storage drive (well more than 3 but I got rid of all those that weren't 1TB).

 

1TB Solid State Hybrid Drive w/ 32GB NAND SSD +$114.00

Samsung 850 EVO Series (3D VNAND Tech) SATA3 6Gb/s 1TB SSD +$324.00

Samsung 850 Pro Series (3D VNAND Tech) SATA3 6Gb/s 1TB SSD +$480.00

 

So do you think I should go with the NAND SSD over the EVO?  Or is the EVO worth the extra 200 dollars performance and or reliability wise?

 

What's the total cost of the laptop going to be man

The Pro most likely is worth it if you're already dead set on spending that much money

 

you can get 1TB SSDs for $265 if you upgrade another laptop yourself

https://pcpartpicker.com/product/RKhj4D/crucial-mx300-11tb-m2-2280-solid-state-drive-ct1050mx300ssd4

[Zyndo]

2 minutes ago, HCPS123 said:

Samsung 850 EVO Series (3D VNAND Tech) SATA3 6Gb/s 1TB SSD +$324.00

Samsung 850 Pro Series (3D VNAND Tech) SATA3 6Gb/s 1TB SSD +$480.00

 

So do you think I should go with the NAND SSD over the EVO?  Or is the EVO worth the extra 200 dollars performance and or reliability wise?

 

Of those 3 options, the 850 EVO should be the one you choose. Again, its up to you if you want to spend 200 more for the 960 evo, but you're unlikely to really feel its performance difference with your kind of workload. But I don't know how valuable $200 is to you. I know that I someday plan to get a 1TB 960 EVO and all I do is game. I know how little it will benefit me, but I want it anyway. If you are that kind of person then by all means, get the 960 EVO. If you would rather have 200 in your pocket to take your girlfriend out on a few dates or invest in a headset or whatever else it is you spend your money on.... then you definitely do not need to pull the trigger on that investment.

 

Objectively speaking, the 960 EVO is no more reliable than the 850 EVO. Its about 4-6x faster depending on which stats you are looking at, however, with the 850 EVO your games will already load in like 2-3 seconds. Would being able to load some games in 1 second rather than 3 really be worth 200 bucks to you? is booting your computer in 10 seconds instead of 20 really worth 200 bucks to you? (some programs and features will bottleneck your potential performance, and you may see 0% performance increase in these situations. It will be hit and miss depending on what you're doing)

[HCPS123]

13 minutes ago, Streetguru said:

I'm fairly certain MSI is going to be fine, and far cheaper, do you already have accessories for your future gaming laptop set up?

To answer the question, the NVME drive is not worth it in the slightest for your workload

MSI doesn't sell laptops as far as I can tell, at least not directly and as a result I can't get a custom laptop with the exact specs I want.

[HCPS123]

2 minutes ago, Zyndo said:

Of those 3 options, the 850 EVO should be the one you choose. Again, its up to you if you want to spend 200 more for the 960 evo, but you're unlikely to really feel its performance difference with your kind of workload. But I don't know how valuable $200 is to you. I know that I someday plan to get a 1TB 960 EVO and all I do is game. I know how little it will benefit me, but I want it anyway. If you are that kind of person then by all means, get the 960 EVO. If you would rather have 200 in your pocket to take your girlfriend out on a few dates or invest in a headset or whatever else it is you spend your money on.... then you definitely do not need to pull the trigger on that investment.

 

Objectively speaking, the 960 EVO is no more reliable than the 850 EVO. Its about 4-6x faster depending on which stats you are looking at, however, with the 850 EVO your games will already load in like 2-3 seconds. Would being able to load some games in 1 second rather than 3 really be worth 200 bucks to you? is booting your computer in 10 seconds instead of 20 really worth 200 bucks to you? (some programs and features will bottleneck your potential performance, and you may see 0% performance increase in these situations. It will be hit and miss depending on what you're doing)

I definitely what a good performance:money ratio, I mean I don't mind spending more to get a good reliable gaming laptop, but I don't want to spend and extra 200 or more just for a fraction better.

 

May I ask why you picked the EVO over the Pro?

[Streetguru]

10 minutes ago, HCPS123 said:

MSI doesn't sell laptops as far as I can tell, at least not directly and as a result I can't get a custom laptop with the exact specs I want.

It's generally only a few screws to pop open the M.2 door and slot one in

going by the above statement you should certainly not get one of those laptops, you don't really need the desktop CPU it offers, and can get the same GPU performance in a far cheaper competitor laptop, you' d just need to install your own SSD

[Zyndo]

56 minutes ago, HCPS123 said:

I definitely what a good performance:money ratio, I mean I don't mind spending more to get a good reliable gaming laptop, but I don't want to spend and extra 200 or more just for a fraction better.

 

May I ask why you picked the EVO over the Pro?

Real-world performance is going to be exactly the same, between the two, in your workload. the Pro series is better is designed for prolonged read/writes and heavy usage. It will maintain more steady speeds (especially useful if you want to do any sort of RAID striping, or programs which rely heavily on storage performance levels), is slightly better performance per watt of energy used (which marginally reduces energy bill and heat generation, leading to less thermal throttling under prolonged heavy usage... only important if you have a large number of these drives in the same machine), and so on... the sort of things that you might find useful if you were a PROfessional. For gaming and movies, you don't need any of these features so it just makes sense to not spend the extra dough. save your 160 bucks. the 850 EVO is already at the limit of what SATA can provide, so the 850 PRO cannot be any faster than that.

[HCPS123]

3 minutes ago, Zyndo said:

Real-world performance is going to be exactly the same, between the two, in your workload. the Pro series is better is designed for prolonged read/writes and heavy usage. It will maintain more steady speeds (especially useful if you want to do any sort of RAID striping, or programs which rely heavily on storage performance levels), is slightly better performance per watt of energy used (which marginally reduces energy bill and heat generation, leading to less thermal throttling under prolonged heavy usage... only important if you have a large number of these drives in the same machine), and so on... the sort of things that you might find useful if you were a PROfessional. For gaming and movies, you don't need any of these features so it just makes sense to not spend the extra dough. save your 160 bucks. the 850 EVO is already at the limit of what SATA can provide, so the 850 PRO cannot be any faster than that.

I think that answers all of my questions.  Thank you so much for all of your help.  I mean it you've taught me a lot today.