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Hello:

 

First of all thank you for your time and for trying to help me. I have been playing World of Warcraft for 8 years. Started on an HP laptop, then Gateway laptop, then HP PC, and then a macbook pro. Probably should have built a gaming system a long time ago and I could have saved big time. Anyways it's never late. So since I know just the basics about computers, Im seeking some help.

 

Here are the World of Warcraft recommended specifications:

OS: Windows 10

Processor: Intel Core i5-3330, AMD FX-6300, or better

Video: NVIDIA GeForce GTX 750 Ti or AMD Radeon R7 260X or better

Memory: 4 GB RAM

 

I will mostly use this system to play World of Warcraft and internet surfing, nothing else. I already have peripherals, monitor, 500GB SATA HDD, and a 400W PSU. 

I was thinking about a case with several fan ports. Also, Im looking to use the integrated graphics from the processor to ease my wallet. Then planning on buying a better GPU along with a better PSU in the future, and an SSD too.

 

Budget: $500ish (excluding gpu, ssd, and the parts I already have)

 

Again, thank you for your time.

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1 minute ago, Alliord said:

I was thinking about a case with several fan ports. Also, Im looking to use the integrated graphics from the processor to ease my wallet. Then planning on buying a better GPU along with a better PSU in the future, and an SSD too.

Then you will want a NVIDIA card since WoW is a Gameworks enabled game.

 

Minus the operating system, monitor, and any peripherals you could go with something like this in your budget:

 

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: Intel Core i5-6400 2.7GHz Quad-Core Processor  ($179.99 @ SuperBiiz)
Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-H110M-A Micro ATX LGA1151 Motherboard  ($53.88 @ OutletPC)
Memory: G.Skill Aegis 8GB (1 x 8GB) DDR4-2133 Memory  ($30.98 @ Newegg)
Storage: Western Digital Caviar Blue 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive  ($47.49 @ OutletPC)
Video Card: EVGA GeForce GTX 950 2GB SSC ACX 2.0 Video Card  ($110.50 @ Newegg)
Case: Phanteks ECLIPSE P400 ATX Mid Tower Case  ($49.99 @ Newegg)
Power Supply: EVGA 500W 80+ Bronze Certified ATX Power Supply  ($32.98 @ Newegg)
Total: $505.81
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2016-08-09 02:23 EDT-0400

 
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33 minutes ago, Alliord said:

I was thinking about a case with several fan ports. Also, Im looking to use the integrated graphics from the processor to ease my wallet. Then planning on buying a better GPU along with a better PSU in the future, and an SSD too.

 

Budget: $500ish (excluding gpu, ssd, and the parts I already have)

 

Again, thank you for your time.

Assuming you're going to keep the parts you have...

 

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: Intel Core i5-6500 3.2GHz Quad-Core Processor  ($204.99 @ Newegg) 
Motherboard: MSI H110M Gaming Micro ATX LGA1151 Motherboard  ($65.98 @ Newegg) 
Memory: G.Skill NT Series 8GB (1 x 8GB) DDR4-2400 Memory  ($31.98 @ Newegg) 
Case: Corsair 200R ATX Mid Tower Case  ($55.11 @ Amazon) 
Total: $358.06
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2016-08-09 02:29 EDT-0400

 

The i5-6500 is an excellent value processor that has four cores and should keep you going for quite a while. It's around $200-$205 depending on where you get it. The integrated graphics are okay, though a dedicated GPU is greatly appreciated.

 

Since you're not going to be using this computer for a whole lot of stuff, I'd recommend just getting just an H110 board. Note, however, that they only have two slots to put RAM.

 

I personally feel that anyone can benefit from having at least 8 GB of RAM. You can get a single 8 GB stick or two 4 GB sticks, though a single stick is slightly cheaper a lot of the time, and H110 boards typically only have two slots, anyway. This second slot will leave you room to upgrade if you feel you need 16 GB in the future, though you might not.

 

One of my PCs uses the Corsair 200R. It's a decent case to build in, though if you don't like the quiet look, there's enough money in your budget for a different case. This case has several places to put fans, as well, and it's very budget-friendly.

 

You can put the remaining $142 into Windows (you can get an OEM key for pretty cheap, or spend $119 for a retail key), and possibly a GPU or a better PSU if you want, or buy a bigger hard drive.

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13 minutes ago, Kavawuvi said:

Assuming you're going to keep the parts you have...

 

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: Intel Core i5-6500 3.2GHz Quad-Core Processor  ($204.99 @ Newegg) 
Motherboard: MSI H110M Gaming Micro ATX LGA1151 Motherboard  ($65.98 @ Newegg) 
Memory: G.Skill NT Series 8GB (1 x 8GB) DDR4-2400 Memory  ($31.98 @ Newegg) 
Case: Corsair 200R ATX Mid Tower Case  ($55.11 @ Amazon) 
Total: $358.06
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2016-08-09 02:29 EDT-0400

 

The i5-6500 is an excellent value processor that has four cores and should keep you going for quite a while. It's around $200-$205 depending on where you get it.

 

Since you're not going to be using this computer for a whole lot, I'd recommend getting just an H110 board. Note, however, that they only have two slots to put RAM.

 

I personally feel that anyone can benefit from having at least 8 GB of RAM. You can get a single 8 GB stick or two 4 GB sticks, though a single stick is slightly cheaper a lot of the time, and H110 boards typically only have two slots, anyway. This second slot will leave you room to upgrade if you feel you need 16 GB in the future, though you might not.

 

One of my PCs uses the Corsair 200R. It's a decent case to build in, though if you don't like the quiet look, there's enough money in your budget for a different case. This case has several places to put fans, as well, and it's very budget-friendly.

 

You can put the remaining $142 into Windows and possibly a GPU or a better PSU if you want, or buy a bigger hard drive.

1. Thanks for the help.

2. Think I might go with this case (http://www.corsair.com/en-us/carbide-series-spec-m2-microatx-gaming-case) because I like the front open for more air flowing. Im guessing this case works fine for the mobo you suggested?

3. Whats the difference between your CPU and this one (http://ca.pcpartpicker.com/product/hV7CmG/intel-cpu-bx80662i36100) other than yours is newer? Would this one do the job as good? Im mentioning it because there is a big gap on the price, and I want to know if the i5 is worth spending the extra cash.

4. Im thinking ahead for when I start searching for a GPU, possibly NVIDIA. Would this mobo support the GPU I should be looking for?

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2 hours ago, Alliord said:

1. Thanks for the help.

2. Think I might go with this case (http://www.corsair.com/en-us/carbide-series-spec-m2-microatx-gaming-case) because I like the front open for more air flowing. Im guessing this case works fine for the mobo you suggested?

3. Whats the difference between your CPU and this one (http://ca.pcpartpicker.com/product/hV7CmG/intel-cpu-bx80662i36100) other than yours is newer? Would this one do the job as good? Im mentioning it because there is a big gap on the price, and I want to know if the i5 is worth spending the extra cash.

4. Im thinking ahead for when I start searching for a GPU, possibly NVIDIA. Would this mobo support the GPU I should be looking for?

2. It'll work. Micro ATX cases can fit micro ATX motherboards.

 

3. They were released around the same time and use the same architecture. It's just that the Intel Core i5-6500 has four cores/four threads and the Intel Core i3-6100 has two cores/four threads, which basically means that the i5 will often be better at heavier multi-threaded tasks and, as a result, may stay relevant a bit longer. If the i5 isn't for you, then you do have the choice to get the i3 and spend a bit less money.

 

4. Most GPUs will work on any board with a PCIe 16x slot, provided your power supply can handle it.

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  • 2 weeks later...
On August 9, 2016 at 4:50 AM, Kavawuvi said:

2. It'll work. Micro ATX cases can fit micro ATX motherboards.

 

3. They were released around the same time and use the same architecture. It's just that the Intel Core i5-6500 has four cores/four threads and the Intel Core i3-6100 has two cores/four threads, which basically means that the i5 will often be better at heavier multi-threaded tasks and, as a result, may stay relevant a bit longer. If the i5 isn't for you, then you do have the choice to get the i3 and spend a bit less money.

 

4. Most GPUs will work on any board with a PCIe 16x slot, provided your power supply can handle it.

Sorry to bring this back alive after a long time. But is there any probability that intel i3 6100 might run laggy on win10? 

Someone told me intel i3 works better with win7/8 but not 10. That if i was gonna go with win 10 i should get i5.

Please correct me if im wrong.

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9 hours ago, Alliord said:

Sorry to bring this back alive after a long time. But is there any probability that intel i3 6100 might run laggy on win10? 

Someone told me intel i3 works better with win7/8 but not 10. That if i was gonna go with win 10 i should get i5.

Please correct me if im wrong.

No. Coming from personal experience, the Intel Core i3-6100 runs very well on Windows 10. In fact, Windows 10 is designed to run on even crappy old 32-bit PCs.

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On August 23, 2016 at 9:48 PM, Kavawuvi said:

No. Coming from personal experience, the Intel Core i3-6100 runs very well on Windows 10. In fact, Windows 10 is designed to run on even crappy old 32-bit PCs.

Thank you for all your help so far. Im in the final procedures of ordering everything and I want to be 100% sure I choose the correct products. 
Im going with the intel i3 6100, win10, one 8gb ddr4 ram stick, keeping my old case, my HDD SATA, my 400W PSU, but Im uncertain about which of these 2 MoBos:

 

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0165YUDTM/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pC_nS_ttl?_encoding=UTF8&colid=AZWW7MPMRRV8&coliid=I1C4OQDA41B2P9

 

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01B4U47E4/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pC_S_ttl?_encoding=UTF8&colid=AZWW7MPMRRV8&coliid=I3510DXS0H81KY&psc=1

 

Is there something the other one does not have? I read the MSI MoBo supports the 6th gen i3 and has 4 SATA ports. That info I could not see it in the Gigabyte MoBo description. I would go with the Gigabyte because it is cheaper but the MSI seems a little more complete, and a $14 difference is not much. What do you think ?

 

Also, when I get the 8gb ram stick. Should I use it along with one of the other 2gb/4gb (not sure) I already have since the mobo has 2 slots ?

 

 

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43 minutes ago, Alliord said:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0165YUDTM/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pC_nS_ttl?_encoding=UTF8&colid=AZWW7MPMRRV8&coliid=I1C4OQDA41B2P9

 

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01B4U47E4/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pC_S_ttl?_encoding=UTF8&colid=AZWW7MPMRRV8&coliid=I3510DXS0H81KY&psc=1

 

Is there something the other one does not have? I read the MSI MoBo supports the 6th gen i3 and has 4 SATA ports. That info I could not see it in the Gigabyte MoBo description. I would go with the Gigabyte because it is cheaper but the MSI seems a little more complete, and a $14 difference is not much. What do you think ?

Also, when I get the 8gb ram stick. Should I use it along with one of the other 2gb/4gb (not sure) I already have since the mobo has 2 slots ?

The Gigabyte motherboard does say it's compatible with 6th generation Intel CPUs, and the i3-6100 is a 6th generation CPU. It also has the correct socket, so it should work just fine. I don't see anything I would personally miss between the Gigabyte and MSI board, so I'd get the cheaper one.

 

I'd recommend just buying a kit of two sticks, though, if you want the best compatibility and least hassles. There is no harm in trying to see if you can mix them, though, because it could work, and if it does, it'll only run in single-channel mode.

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On August 26, 2016 at 8:38 PM, Kavawuvi said:

The Gigabyte motherboard does say it's compatible with 6th generation Intel CPUs, and the i3-6100 is a 6th generation CPU. It also has the correct socket, so it should work just fine. I don't see anything I would personally miss between the Gigabyte and MSI board, so I'd get the cheaper one.

 

I'd recommend just buying a kit of two sticks, though, if you want the best compatibility and least hassles. There is no harm in trying to see if you can mix them, though, because it could work, and if it does, it'll only run in single-channel mode.

Thank you!

 

Btw would I be able to play the game and run 60 fps with this CPU ? Or would I need to get a good GPU and PSU for that? Because at the moment  I play on macbook pro (late 2011) intel i5 2.4 GHz with the integrated graphics, 4 gb ram though, and I run average 20 fps.

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6 hours ago, Alliord said:

Thank you!

 

Btw would I be able to play the game and run 60 fps with this CPU ? Or would I need to get a good GPU and PSU for that? Because at the moment  I play on macbook pro (late 2011) intel i5 2.4 GHz with the integrated graphics, 4 gb ram though, and I run average 20 fps.

I'd get something like an RX 460 or GTX 950 for the graphics card, which will cost around $115-$140. You could also buy a used card if this is too steep - you'll probably find a good offer for a Radeon HD 7970 or GTX 760 on eBay for less than $80.

 

Also, I'd make sure the PSU is good enough for everything. If you want a cheap PSU, then a couple PSUs come to mind: the Corsair CX450M ($50) and the SeaSonic M12II 520 ($65) come to mind, though I doubt you'll need more than 450 W unless you plan on upgrading to a much beefier CPU or GPU in the future.

 

Integrated graphics with Intel processors have gotten a bit better since 2011, but you probably won't get 60 FPS with just the integrated graphics if you didn't get 30 FPS with the MacBook Pro graphics.

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  • 5 weeks later...
On August 30, 2016 at 4:47 AM, Kavawuvi said:

I'd get something like an RX 460 or GTX 950 for the graphics card, which will cost around $115-$140. You could also buy a used card if this is too steep - you'll probably find a good offer for a Radeon HD 7970 or GTX 760 on eBay for less than $80.

 

Also, I'd make sure the PSU is good enough for everything. If you want a cheap PSU, then a couple PSUs come to mind: the Corsair CX450M ($50) and the SeaSonic M12II 520 ($65) come to mind, though I doubt you'll need more than 450 W unless you plan on upgrading to a much beefier CPU or GPU in the future.

 

Integrated graphics with Intel processors have gotten a bit better since 2011, but you probably won't get 60 FPS with just the integrated graphics if you didn't get 30 FPS with the MacBook Pro graphics.

Hey its me again.

I recently purchased the mobo and cpu and ram. I also got Windows 10 and created a bootable USB flashdrive with it. However, when I turn on the PC I press F12 to go to the Boot Setup, I choose to boot from USB flashdrive, the PC reboots but then tells me that Windows can't startup (also, it seems as if my old OS Win7 is the one booting), and it gives me the options to run "repair mode" or "start widnows normally". If I choose "start windows normally" it takes me back to the same screen that it is unable to start.  If I choose "repair mode" it pops up a "Startup Repair" window attempting to repair and offered me to do a restore but I declined it, and then took a while attempting to repair but in the end did not find any solution. 

 

 I created the bootable USB flashdrive on a mac and this is the video I watched and followed to create it:

 

 

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22 minutes ago, Alliord said:

Hey its me again.

 

I recently purchased the mobo and cpu and ram. I also got Windows 10 and created a bootable USB flashdrive with it. However, when I turn on the PC I press F12 to go to the Boot Setup, I choose to boot from USB flashdrive, the PC reboots but then tells me that Windows can't startup (also, it seems as if my old OS Win7 is the one booting), and it gives me the options to run "repair mode" or "start widnows normally". If I choose "start windows normally" it takes me back to the same screen that it is unable to start.  If I choose "repair mode" it pops up a "Startup Repair" window attempting to repair and offered me to do a restore but I declined it, and then took a while attempting to repair but in the end did not find any solution. 

 

 I created the bootable USB flashdrive on a mac and this is the video I watched and followed to create it.

Hey there. What I've personally done for creating Windows 10 USB devices was just format the USB drive as FAT32 with a MBR partition map (you can accomplish this in Disk Utility - newer motherboards using UEFI may also accept GPT partition tables). Then, I'd use a program like 7-zip to extract the files of the ISO directly to the root of the flash drive's first partition (you can accomplish this on OS X with a program I use called Keka). This method has consistently worked for me.

 

There's also Rufus if you have another Windows machine lying around, and it pretty much does all of this for you.

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25 minutes ago, Kavawuvi said:

Hey there. What I've personally done for creating Windows 10 USB devices was just format the USB drive as FAT32 with a MBR partition map (you can accomplish this in Disk Utility - newer motherboards using UEFI may also accept GPT partition tables). Then, I'd use a program like 7-zip to extract the files of the ISO directly to the root of the flash drive's first partition (you can accomplish this on OS X with a program I use called Keka). This method has consistently worked for me.

 

There's also Rufus if you have another Windows machine lying around, and it pretty much does all of this for you.

I tried erasing it to format it to what you said (the FAT options were MS-DOS (FAT) and ExFAT), I chose MS-DOS FAT and MBR partition but it said "Failed to erase disc". This is driving me crazy, all i want to do is install win10 and erase the hdd to have my pc like brand new.

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32 minutes ago, Alliord said:

I tried erasing it to format it to what you said (the FAT options were MS-DOS (FAT) and ExFAT), I chose MS-DOS FAT and MBR partition but it said "Failed to erase disc". This is driving me crazy, all i want to do is install win10 and erase the hdd to have my pc like brand new.

That doesn't sound right. It sounds like something may either be up with your flash drive, or you overwrote the disk itself rather than the partition when you did that tutorial on YouTube. Try a different flash drive if you have another one?

 

If not, what I've done once was overwrite the flash drive with random characters to get Disk Utility to see it as corrupted and initialize it for me.

sudo su
diskutil list
diskutil unmountDisk /dev/diskX
cat /dev/random > /dev/diskX

Replace diskX with whatever you got with diskutil list for your flash drive. Be absolutely careful here - sudo su is required for the cat command to work, as just using sudo with the cat command will result in a permission denied message. Unmounting is also required, as you cannot just write arbitrary data to a disk that's in use.

 

By the way, you don't need to wait until the "cat" command finishes. Just press control-C after a few seconds and it will have done its work.

 

You can remove your flash drive (it's already unmounted anyway) and when you reinsert it, Finder will ask if you want to initialize the disk. Click Initialize and it'll open Disk Utility, which will give you the opportunity to erase the disk.

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11 minutes ago, Kavawuvi said:

That doesn't sound right. It sounds like something may either be up with your flash drive, or you overwrote the disk itself rather than the partition when you did that tutorial on YouTube. Try a different flash drive if you have another one?

 

If not, what I've done once was overwrite the flash drive with random characters to get Disk Utility to see it as corrupted and initialize it for me.


sudo su
diskutil list
diskutil unmountDisk /dev/diskX
cat /dev/random > /dev/diskX

Replace diskX with whatever you got with diskutil list for your flash drive. Be absolutely careful here - sudo su is required for the cat command to work, as just using sudo with the cat command will result in a permission denied message. Unmounting is also required, as you cannot just write arbitrary data to a disk that's in use.

 

By the way, you don't need to wait until the "cat" command finishes. Just press control-C after a few seconds and it will have done its work.

 

You can remove your flash drive (it's already unmounted anyway) and when you reinsert it, Finder will ask if you want to initialize the disk. Click Initialize and it'll open Disk Utility, which will give you the opportunity to erase the disk.

Done. the disk was initialized, erased it as MS-DOS (FAT) MBR partition. Now... Im confused, Ill get 7-zip to extract file from iso then Keka to transfer file to usb ?

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33 minutes ago, Alliord said:

Done. the disk was initialized, erased it as MS-DOS (FAT) MBR partition. Now... Im confused, Ill get 7-zip to extract file from iso then Keka to transfer file to usb ?

I meant that Keka can extract files from an ISO file if you're on a Mac as well as 7-zip if you're on Windows. Just make sure you extract them to the root of the USB drive partition.

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37 minutes ago, Kavawuvi said:

I meant that Keka can extract files from an ISO file if you're on a Mac as well as 7-zip if you're on Windows. Just make sure you extract them to the root of the USB drive.

Just finished it. Plugged it into the PC, turned on PC and pressed F12 and pop-up window showed up:

 

"Please select boot device:

P1: WDC WD5000AAKS-65YGA0

TDK LoR Trans-It Drive PMAP

P3: HL-DT-ST DVD-RAM GH10L

UEFI: TDK LoR Trans-It Drive PMAP, Partition"

 

I selected 2nd option (my usb is TDK) and it rebooted and same problem as before "windows could not start up: run startup repair or start win normally". 

Then I re did everything again but this time i chose the UEFI option and still same problem occured.

 

:(

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25 minutes ago, Alliord said:

I selected 2nd option (my usb is TDK) and it rebooted and same problem as before "windows could not start up: run startup repair or start win normally". 

Then I re did everything again but this time i chose the UEFI option and still same problem occured.

That's very strange. If you're having any trouble doing this and you have access to a Windows PC, you could also try a program called Rufus (https://rufus.akeo.ie). This is what many people use, and there really isn't any reason to confuse yourself so much over this. Microsoft also provides a tool that can do this (https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/software-download/windows10/).

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3 minutes ago, Kavawuvi said:

That's very strange. If you're having any trouble doing this and you have access to a Windows PC, you could also try a program called Rufus (https://rufus.akeo.ie). This is what many people use, and there really isn't any reason to confuse yourself so much over this.

Okay thank you for all your help so far. I wil do it tomorrow on my roomates laptop. Also, I dont know if this has anything to do with it, but the os win 7 the pc had before was with one of those cracked keys generated by one of those generators.
Anyways... I opened rufus link and saw the Rufus program interface panel. Could you tell me which options to select such as device, partition scheme and target system type, file system, cluster size, new volume label, etc? Since maybe when I do it you may not be available. 

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32 minutes ago, Alliord said:

Anyways... I opened rufus link and saw the Rufus program interface panel. Could you tell me which options to select such as device, partition scheme and target system type, file system, cluster size, new volume label, etc? Since maybe when I do it you may not be available. 

Partition scheme can be "MBR for BIOS or UEFI", though GPT should also work with UEFI-based motherboards.

 

Format as either FAT32 or NTFS; FAT32 for the best compatibility, though you are limited to 4 GB file sizes, and most modern motherboards should work with NTFS just fine.

 

Keep Cluster size as the default.

 

Label doesn't matter. Set it to something memorable, I suppose.

 

Create using ISO image. Also, are you sure you're using the correct ISO file from Microsoft? I can't guarantee that any issues wouldn't happen if you weren't.

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On September 29, 2016 at 2:40 AM, Kavawuvi said:

Partition scheme can be "MBR for BIOS or UEFI", though GPT should also work with UEFI-based motherboards.

 

Format as either FAT32 or NTFS; FAT32 for the best compatibility, though you are limited to 4 GB file sizes, and most modern motherboards should work with NTFS just fine.

 

Keep Cluster size as the default.

 

Label doesn't matter. Set it to something memorable, I suppose.

 

Create using ISO image. Also, are you sure you're using the correct ISO file from Microsoft? I can't guarantee that any issues wouldn't happen if you weren't.

Can I just install it in a dvd on my mac and boot it from it ?

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On September 29, 2016 at 2:40 AM, Kavawuvi said:

Partition scheme can be "MBR for BIOS or UEFI", though GPT should also work with UEFI-based motherboards.

 

Format as either FAT32 or NTFS; FAT32 for the best compatibility, though you are limited to 4 GB file sizes, and most modern motherboards should work with NTFS just fine.

 

Keep Cluster size as the default.

 

Label doesn't matter. Set it to something memorable, I suppose.

 

Create using ISO image. Also, are you sure you're using the correct ISO file from Microsoft? I can't guarantee that any issues wouldn't happen if you weren't.

Hi, sorry to bother you again. I managed to boot computer from DVD with Win10. However when Im choosing where to install windows, when I select my HDD it says it cannot be installed in that disk because it has an MBR partition, and on EFI systems Windows can only be installed to GPT disks.

Can you please help me with this? 

Thanks!

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7 hours ago, Alliord said:

Hi, sorry to bother you again. I managed to boot computer from DVD with Win10. However when Im choosing where to install windows, when I select my HDD it says it cannot be installed in that disk because it has an MBR partition, and on EFI systems Windows can only be installed to GPT disks.

Can you please help me with this? 

Thanks!

Select each partition for the disk you want to install Windows 10 on and delete them until it's just unallocated space. Select the unallocated space and click Next. This will wipe your drive, and the installer should automatically format it for GPT.

 

If you don't want to completely wipe the drive, then you'll need to go into your BIOS settings and enable a "Legacy BIOS" mode, as the Windows 10 installer will not install onto drives using MBR if the PC is UEFI-compatible, otherwise.

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