PSU Upgrade

[Denis_Twin]

Hi, so I have a workstation from dell and want to upgrade power supply because I was told it is not able to supply my other components from what it seems.

I guess this is the one I already have Now.

 http://www.ebay.com/itm/Dell-NVC7F-Precision-T3600-T5600-635W-Power-Supply-D635EF-00-DPS-635AB/252425208823?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20131003132420%26meid%3D766d937375e142d8a663096c947e15e5%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D112012054284

I know I am limited to dell ones, but they are expensive and I just want to feed my gtx980+other components in order to perform as they should, they currently unde-perform, dont ask for details about it if you think its not psu, I already made a thread where people suggested to buy a new psu.

Thanks in advance.

[Denis_Twin]

1 hour ago, huilun02 said:

Consider migrating the innards to a new case? Unless the mobo has some proprietary power connector, it can then use a proper ATX PSU.

The extra room for bigger card and air flow would be a plus too.

Actually if it could fit the current case it would be cool, the current one is a special design by dell, but sadly it seems like it doesnt provide enough energy to the coponents.

Can this be true by the way?

[Denis_Twin]

1 hour ago, huilun02 said:

I meant to transplant the motherboard and stuff to a new case.

Leaving the shitty Dell PSU behind so you can use a proper PSU that doesn't suck.

 

Of course you could try fitting something like a Silverstone SFX unit into your Dell case

First we need to know of the power connector on the mobo is proprietary. If it is, you're stuck with no way out.

I was told that it is.

Can you check for details on the specs? I am working atm and cant dissemble so there should be information when you search about the product depending on the info you need.

[quan289]

If you are experiencing issues with it being "under-performing" as in FPS lost / stuttering, then the issue more than likely isn't the PSU. The system won't simply throttle down its performance in response to a PSU inability to output more.

[Denis_Twin]

1 hour ago, quan289 said:

If you are experiencing issues with it being "under-performing" as in FPS lost / stuttering, then the issue more than likely isn't the PSU. The system won't simply throttle down its performance in response to a PSU inability to output more.

okay we run around in cycles then, because different tech forum people suggesting different things, I was told it is the psu, is it?

[quan289]

19 minutes ago, TwinDenis said:

okay we run around in cycles then, because different tech forum people suggesting different things, I was told it is the psu, is it?

https://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/MSI/GTX_980_Gaming/23.html

 

As you could see, the power draw of this particular MSI 980 Gaming is peaking around 210WDC by itself. Even if you were to put your components under 100% systematic load (Kombuster / Furmark + Prime95; which you will not be doing) with a Haswell-EP, your DC power draw shouldn't be higher than 350w. Being a Delta build PSU, it should be able to power that system under gaming load.

 

I believe one of the reason why some people may considered it to be a power supply issue is because the PSU is a multi-rail unit that has five 12V rails rated at 18A each (216W). Think of multi-rail units like circuit breakers inside of your PSU. Rather than having a single, unprotected +12V source outputting 600w+, that 12V source is being limited by multiples of Over Current Protection to monitor a certain group of wires. If a component happen to draw more than that OCP limit, the PSU would stop supplying power.

 

Yes, the 210W on the 12V is 17.5A, but generally speaking, the OCP are set higher than what it is rated for to factor in transient load spikes. Also, a portion of that 210W will be coming from the PCIe slot which is on another 12V rail, and unless the two PEG connectors that you are plugging into your GPU is on the same cable, that may be on different 12V rail as well depending on how it is set up.

 

The reason why I know you are not tripping the OCP is because you are not experiencing a power lost but rather low FPS / stuttering. An issue with the power delivery (voltage regulation, transient loads, ripple suppression) can result in stability issue where your system to crash / BSoD, but to my understanding, you still have to run the game for an extended period of time.

 

I don't believe the Haswell-EP Xeon E5 to be bottlenecking your 980, so unless I'm missing something I would like to believe your issue is still on the software side.

[Denis_Twin]

1 hour ago, quan289 said:

https://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/MSI/GTX_980_Gaming/23.html

 

As you could see, the power draw of this particular MSI 980 Gaming is peaking around 210WDC by itself. Even if you were to put your components under 100% systematic load (Kombuster / Furmark + Prime95; which you will not be doing) with a Haswell-EP, your DC power draw shouldn't be higher than 350w. Being a Delta build PSU, it should be able to power that system under gaming load.

 

I believe one of the reason why some people may considered it to be a power supply issue is because the PSU is a multi-rail unit that has five 12V rails rated at 18A each (216W). Think of multi-rail units like circuit breakers inside of your PSU. Rather than having a single, unprotected +12V source outputting 600w+, that 12V source is being limited by multiples of Over Current Protection to monitor a certain group of wires. If a component happen to draw more than that OCP limit, the PSU would stop supplying power.

 

Yes, the 210W on the 12V is 17.5A, but generally speaking, the OCP are set higher than what it is rated for to factor in transient load spikes. Also, a portion of that 210W will be coming from the PCIe slot which is on another 12V rail, and unless the two PEG connectors that you are plugging into your GPU is on the same cable, that may be on different 12V rail as well depending on how it is set up.

 

The reason why I know you are not tripping the OCP is because you are not experiencing a power lost but rather low FPS / stuttering. An issue with the power delivery (voltage regulation, transient loads, ripple suppression) can result in stability issue where your system to crash / BSoD, but to my understanding, you still have to run the game for an extended period of time.

 

I don't believe the Haswell-EP Xeon E5 to be bottlenecking your 980, so unless I'm missing something I would like to believe your issue is still on the software side.

It has proven to not be software related but we will see on my other threads. (check them out, the latest one before this one)

Are you absolutely certain that my psu is fine for the current setup?

[glitchmaster0001]

6 hours ago, TwinDenis said:

It has proven to not be software related but we will see on my other threads. (check them out, the latest one before this one)

Are you absolutely certain that my psu is fine for the current setup?

well if you starve a componet out on volts normally it would go slower than expected or it would just crash your PC and restart without a blue screen of death. so can you load up a cpu and gpu stress test and see if your computer restarts or crashes or lags? thats how i would look at a power problem is to try and load up the system so it consumes the watts and if it crashes then we know the PSU cant handle the 980. or better option is do you have a lower power GPU that you can borrow or use. then test and see if that removes your fps drop issues 

[Denis_Twin]

1 hour ago, glitchmaster0001 said:

well if you starve a componet out on volts normally it would go slower than expected or it would just crash your PC and restart without a blue screen of death. so can you load up a cpu and gpu stress test and see if your computer restarts or crashes or lags? thats how i would look at a power problem is to try and load up the system so it consumes the watts and if it crashes then we know the PSU cant handle the 980. or better option is do you have a lower power GPU that you can borrow or use. then test and see if that removes your fps drop issues 

Yes I have a quadro 600....

So, moving on, how can I monitor power usage and consumption detailed through my monitor.

Besides all that, everyone else has has laptops.

My pc does not crash or anything odd, just the fps drop on those games I mentioned.

Stutter/fps drops depending but the games should work out fine isnt that so?

[glitchmaster0001]

youd have to get those kill a watt meters to plug into the wall then from there into your pc to measure how much watts your pulling from the wall when you load the system up with your games. https://www.amazon.com/P3-P4400-Electricity-Usage-Monitor/dp/B00009MDBU?ie=UTF8&tag=viglink20237-20

i recommend you try to find a person or friend of yours that has one of these and ask if you can borrow 

[Denis_Twin]

1 hour ago, glitchmaster0001 said:

youd have to get those kill a watt meters to plug into the wall then from there into your pc to measure how much watts your pulling from the wall when you load the system up with your games. https://www.amazon.com/P3-P4400-Electricity-Usage-Monitor/dp/B00009MDBU?ie=UTF8&tag=viglink20237-20

i recommend you try to find a person or friend of yours that has one of these and ask if you can borrow 

In the mean time lets monitor from the computer itself since we started it, and if voltages is the issue how can we upgrade. Just possibility, not that I will right away, just how I would upgrade because it has some limits or something from what I am told.

[glitchmaster0001]

2 minutes ago, TwinDenis said:

In the mean time lets monitor from the computer itself since we started it, and if voltages is the issue how can we upgrade. Just possibility, not that I will right away, just how I would upgrade because it has some limits or something from what I am told.

as of now id do a cheap and free solution which is as you said monitoring the PC and doing research on your system. we cant do all the work for you here as we dont have the PC. this is a team effort so we all have to put in some research in it. id recommend that you call dell and ask if the PSU in your system can be replaced with a standard ATX one. then ask them if the motherboard is a standard ATX or mATX. if they say yes to both then congrats you now know that the PC can be easily upgraded and transplanted into a different case. very useful information for the future. 

[Denis_Twin]

58 minutes ago, glitchmaster0001 said:

as of now id do a cheap and free solution which is as you said monitoring the PC and doing research on your system. we cant do all the work for you here as we dont have the PC. this is a team effort so we all have to put in some research in it. id recommend that you call dell and ask if the PSU in your system can be replaced with a standard ATX one. then ask them if the motherboard is a standard ATX or mATX. if they say yes to both then congrats you now know that the PC can be easily upgraded and transplanted into a different case. very useful information for the future. 

I am working on it for at least 1.half year, I try my best.

I asked to several forums and people either got bored and left or called me troll and banned be for asking.

Whatever the case this is a real issue I can even record although it would take time.

The fps drop effect is usually more described as micro stutter instead, for heroes of the storm I get no fps counter drops but instead stutter.

I will call dell support and ask for it.