PFsense or consumer router?

[Derpologist]

Greetings!

Quite soon I will be redoing my network at my house. I'm fairly new to networking, but I understand the basics. All it will really have is a router, modem (or whatnot the isp gives me), switch, power supply, and possibly a server in the future. Also some access points to extend the network all as one network throughout the entire house. This is all being brought on as we are building a large addition to our current house. I will only wire here and there for RJ45 in the old house, but the new one will be state of the art as far as that goes. 

 

Now I'm deciding on router. My plan is this as of now:

Signal from ISP into ISP modem or whatever they give me (looking into fibre in my neighborhood, saw a truck splicing it at the top of the street a few weeks back :D), into the router, which then goes to the switch, and possibly a few of the access points through the router if there are any leftover ports. Then the switch will go to the various TVs, wall jacks, etc etc. For those of you who are better at networking than me, do you see any issues with this? 

 

Anyways, im wondering if I should build a router and use PFSense, or buy a nice prosumer (ish) router and put a custom firmware on that. What do you guys think? 

Our current device plan (not all accessing the network at once, but all connected at once)

Two TVs

3 Desktops

2 Laptops

1 iPad

up to 4 phones

assorted other things (possibly phillips hue, if I can afford it lol)

 

 

Any ideas?

 

Thanks!

 

 

EDIT: Something I've always been confused on is Access points vs extenders vs repeaters. Which should I use for this? I want it to show as all one network connection, but I can plug in each device to extend the network to the switch/router if needed. That's no worry. All I want is for it to show up as one network across the entire building, and the old house (will be running ethernet there)

[leonard_sun]

If you can handle PFsense and have some experience with BSD then PfSense is the best.

[manikyath]

well, theres lots of ways to achieve this, and my first question would be "what is your budget"

 

because its all nice and fun to theorise, until you realise a good, high quality access point is up in the 3 digit range pricing.

[Derpologist]

1 minute ago, manikyath said:

well, theres lots of ways to achieve this, and my first question would be "what is your budget"

 

because its all nice and fun to theorise, until you realise a good, high quality access point is up in the 3 digit range pricing.

Well honestly as long as im not spending in the 4th digits, that should be more than enough, right? It doesnt need to be the highest performance ever

 

[manikyath]

3 minutes ago, Derpologist said:

Well honestly as long as im not spending in the 4th digits, that should be more than enough, right? It doesnt need to be the highest performance ever

 

does the house have any sort of cabling pre-run? or will you have to put in your own cables?

[Derpologist]

Just now, manikyath said:

does the house have any sort of cabling pre-run? or will you have to put in your own cables?

The current house is probably older than your grandmother, so no. I will put a few RJ45 jacks here and there, where they may be needed, but the new addition, yes. There will definitely be ports. For things like the blu ray player, TV, my desktop, laptop (when its plugged in), etc. Also some jacks around in strategic places. Increases the value of the house

[manikyath]

Just now, Derpologist said:

The current house is probably older than your grandmother, so no. I will put a few RJ45 jacks here and there, where they may be needed, but the new addition, yes. There will definitely be ports. For things like the blu ray player, TV, my desktop, laptop (when its plugged in), etc. Also some jacks around in strategic places. Increases the value of the house

if its an old house i wouldnt go too nuts with the ethernet jacks. maybe one (max) per bedroom, one at the TV, and depending on the size of the living room a few more in strategic corners. if theres spots in the house that are just screaming for a desk, put a jack there, thats insta-value

 

something else: from the most central spot you can put an access point, how many walls would that access point need to pierce trough, and how thick are said walls?

[Derpologist]

Just now, manikyath said:

if its an old house i wouldnt go too nuts with the ethernet jacks. maybe one (max) per bedroom, one at the TV, and depending on the size of the living room a few more in strategic corners. if theres spots in the house that are just screaming for a desk, put a jack there, thats insta-value

 

something else: from the most central spot you can put an access point, how many walls would that access point need to pierce trough, and how thick are said walls?

To the first part, that was my plan exactly. Not even one per bedroom in some cases. Definitely some though

 

Well the wall thickness hasnt been decided 100%, since we've just started planning. It would have to pass through only one to two walls, which arent too thin. Then go to the second floor, if possible. Then one or two (maybe just one, depends on coverage) in the old house so its all of one network between the two

[manikyath]

Just now, Derpologist said:

To the first part, that was my plan exactly. Not even one per bedroom in some cases. Definitely some though

 

Well the wall thickness hasnt been decided 100%, since we've just started planning. It would have to pass through only one to two walls, which arent too thin. Then go to the second floor, if possible. Then one or two (maybe just one, depends on coverage) in the old house so its all of one network between the two

if the walls arent too thick ( or some kind of armored steel alloy  ) you'd probably be fine with one central access point, that'd allow you to get a single high end access point that had good range, and decent speeds along that range. the access point i currently use doesnt pass the 50Mbit even when i'm sitting right next to it with the best wifi-enabled device i have.

 

if you get something high quality they have quite the range as well, the cisco access points my college had could reach a good 100 meters with line of sight, and were pretty dang well of broadcasting trough walls.

[Derpologist]

1 minute ago, manikyath said:

if the walls arent too thick ( or some kind of armored steel alloy  ) you'd probably be fine with one central access point, that'd allow you to get a single high end access point that had good range, and decent speeds along that range. the access point i currently use doesnt pass the 50Mbit even when i'm sitting right next to it with the best wifi-enabled device i have.

 

if you get something high quality they have quite the range as well, the cisco access points my college had could reach a good 100 meters with line of sight, and were pretty dang well of broadcasting trough walls.

Could you recommend any access points?

[manikyath]

Just now, Derpologist said:

Could you recommend any access points?

i cant really recommend anything from first hand experience, but i can say to stay the hell away from anything wireless from TP-Link. their powerline adapters are amazing, their switches are amazing, but GOD are their wireless routers a joke...

[Derpologist]

2 minutes ago, manikyath said:

i cant really recommend anything from first hand experience, but i can say to stay the hell away from anything wireless from TP-Link. their powerline adapters are amazing, their switches are amazing, but GOD are their wireless routers a joke...

Good to know. 

 

Thanks so much for all the help!!

[manikyath]

Just now, Derpologist said:

Good to know. 

 

Thanks so much for all the help!!

by the way, if you can get a deal on cat6a, you can make the place "10 gigabit ready" but i wouldnt even come near buying a roll of cat6a for the price its going for...

[Derpologist]

20 hours ago, manikyath said:

by the way, if you can get a deal on cat6a, you can make the place "10 gigabit ready" but i wouldnt even come near buying a roll of cat6a for the price its going for...

Yes...seems very expensive. Although I suppose 250 or so for 1000 feet isnt too bad. If I can get it in 500, id be happy. What about cat6? Is there any difference as far as splicing it goes from cat 5e?

[vlamnire]

You can have multiple access points and make them all have the exact same wireless settings and any wireless device will roam to the access point with the best signal. You ever see hospitals with those Cisco access points on the ceiling everywhere? Same thing with universities.

As far as a router, any router that you feel comfortable configuring is what I recommend. Most routers will be command line configuration so whatever has the most understandable way to you to configure would work.

The access points can be configured with a GUI so that's nice.

[Derpologist]

5 minutes ago, vlamnire said:

You can have multiple access points and make them all have the exact same wireless settings and any wireless device will roam to the access point with the best signal. You ever see hospitals with those Cisco access points on the ceiling everywhere? Same thing with universities.

As far as a router, any router that you feel comfortable configuring is what I recommend. Most routers will be command line configuration so whatever has the most understandable way to you to configure would work.

The access points can be configured with a GUI so that's nice.

We have that at our school, which is what im planning on doing. Any ideas which ones are the best for that? Cisco?

Im pretty bad with command lines lol, but im sure I could figure out the access points. I may just go with a high end consumer router in the end

[vlamnire]

3 minutes ago, Derpologist said:

We have that at our school, which is what im planning on doing. Any ideas which ones are the best for that? Cisco?

Im pretty bad with command lines lol, but im sure I could figure out the access points. I may just go with a high end consumer router in the end

Well Cisco is what I would as I'm on my way to my CCNA and it's trusted by many enterprises. You can find cheap Cisco equipment on eBay. One of my classmates bought Cisco router, switch, and access points all on eBay for really cheap. The APs would just be connected via Ethernet from your switch or from the wall ports that are wired to the switch. 

[Derpologist]

2 minutes ago, vlamnire said:

Well Cisco is what I would as I'm on my way to my CCNA and it's trusted by many enterprises. You can find cheap Cisco equipment on eBay. One of my classmates bought Cisco router, switch, and access points all on eBay for really cheap. The APs would just be connected via Ethernet from your switch or from the wall ports that are wired to the switch. 

Great. I was planning on doing wall ports and a few jacks dedicated for the APs. Will need to probably get some poE injectors though, but thats no issue

[vlamnire]

19 hours ago, Derpologist said:

Great. I was planning on doing wall ports and a few jacks dedicated for the APs. Will need to probably get some poE injectors though, but thats no issue

If you were planning on Cisco APs my Cisco Scaling Networks Companion Guide textbook recommends

Cisco W AP4410N AP - ideal for small organizations requiring two APs supporting a small group of users. (Can be powered via AC or PoE and configured via GUI)

Cisco W AP121 and W AP321 - ideal for small organizations that want to simplify their wireless deployment using several APs (Configured via CLI or GUI supports clustering and can be powered via AC or PoE)

Cisco AP541N AP - ideal for small to mid-size organizations that want robust and easily manageable cluster of APs (Configured using GUI, suppports clustering, and can be powered via AC or PoE)

 

I found the first one on eBay for 40 dollars but it only supports up to 802.11n.  Remember though if you buy multiple ones you may have to configure them directly hooked up to your PC since you will probably want to change the IP address on each one.  Come up with a topology first before plugging everything together.  I'm interested to see how you get this set up completely.  

[Derpologist]

3 minutes ago, vlamnire said:

If you were planning on Cisco APs my Cisco Scaling Networks Companion Guide textbook recommends

Cisco W AP4410N AP - ideal for small organizations requiring two APs supporting a small group of users. (Can be powered via AC or PoE and configured via GUI)

Cisco W AP121 and W AP321 - ideal for small organizations that want to simplify their wireless deployment using several APs (Configured via CLI or GUI supports clustering and can be powered via AC or PoE)

Cisco AP541N AP - ideal for small to mid-size organizations that want robust and easily manageable cluster of APs (Configured using GUI, suppports clustering, and can be powered via AC or PoE)

 

I found the first one on eBay for 40 dollars but it only supports up to 802.11n.  Remember though if you buy multiple ones you may have to configure them directly hooked up to your PC since you will probably want to change the IP address on each one.  Come up with a topology first before plugging everything together.  I'm interested to see how you get this set up completely.  

The first one you quoted looks good, although I was looking at these, as well: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B015PR20GY/ref=pd_lpo_sbs_dp_ss_1?pf_rd_p=1944687662&pf_rd_s=lpo-top-stripe-1&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_i=B00HXT8R2O&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=19HCSCJSW065PP27Z6ME

 

Are they decent? They are AC, so I would probably pick up two of them, one for the old house, and one for the new. Maybe one in between. 

 

And as far as setting them up, it wont be until much later this year, maybe even into next year, but trust me, I will make a big thread about the whole job

[vlamnire]

18 hours ago, Derpologist said:

The first one you quoted looks good, although I was looking at these, as well: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B015PR20GY/ref=pd_lpo_sbs_dp_ss_1?pf_rd_p=1944687662&pf_rd_s=lpo-top-stripe-1&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_i=B00HXT8R2O&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=19HCSCJSW065PP27Z6ME

 

Are they decent? They are AC, so I would probably pick up two of them, one for the old house, and one for the new. Maybe one in between. 

 

And as far as setting them up, it wont be until much later this year, maybe even into next year, but trust me, I will make a big thread about the whole job

Those will work I believe.  Your checklist isn't very big: PoE, AC, and your coverage area isn't SUPER big so you don't need like massive antennas or anything more complicated than this.  It has a nice and easy configuration and manual too so it won't be really hard to set up either https://dl.ubnt.com/guides/UniFi/UniFi_AP_AP-LR_User_Guide.pdf What's nice about this is probably you can call a support agent if you have any trouble too compared to a used product.  

Disclaimer though: I've never used an Ubiquiti AP or read about their configuration.  To be honest though, I've never used a Cisco AP yet.  There's a whole class for WLAN technologies at my University. 

[Derpologist]

1 hour ago, vlamnire said:

Those will work I believe.  Your checklist isn't very big: PoE, AC, and your coverage area isn't SUPER big so you don't need like massive antennas or anything more complicated than this.  It has a nice and easy configuration and manual too so it won't be really hard to set up either https://dl.ubnt.com/guides/UniFi/UniFi_AP_AP-LR_User_Guide.pdf What's nice about this is probably you can call a support agent if you have any trouble too compared to a used product.  

Disclaimer though: I've never used an Ubiquiti AP or read about their configuration.  To be honest though, I've never used a Cisco AP yet.  There's a whole class for WLAN technologies at my University. 

Alright, I've heard good things about those, so I will go for the UniFi. 

 

The addition is small, two floors, about 20ft by 20ft, so I was thinking on the ceiling of the first floor. The main house is about 30x30, so I was also thinking about one on the ceiling of the second floor. While this isnt much of a distance, it will be nice to have the AC APs to improve the speed over distances, as well as the space between the two houses (about 30 feet), although we may do a 'connecting' tunnel, but we aren't sure yet. If we do a connecting tunnel, do you think it would be a good idea to put another AP in the middle of the connector, or will they reach? its not like we'll be watching netflix in between, but for phones, etc, I dont want it to disconnect your device while walking between if possible.

 

EDIT: I'm taking a short trip up to our town office today so I may be able to get a copy of the land plot. If I do, I'll take a picture of it and post it on here in case my description is difficult to visualize

[vlamnire]

On 3/6/2016 at 11:55 AM, Derpologist said:

Alright, I've heard good things about those, so I will go for the UniFi. 

 

The addition is small, two floors, about 20ft by 20ft, so I was thinking on the ceiling of the first floor. The main house is about 30x30, so I was also thinking about one on the ceiling of the second floor. While this isnt much of a distance, it will be nice to have the AC APs to improve the speed over distances, as well as the space between the two houses (about 30 feet), although we may do a 'connecting' tunnel, but we aren't sure yet. If we do a connecting tunnel, do you think it would be a good idea to put another AP in the middle of the connector, or will they reach? its not like we'll be watching netflix in between, but for phones, etc, I dont want it to disconnect your device while walking between if possible.

 

EDIT: I'm taking a short trip up to our town office today so I may be able to get a copy of the land plot. If I do, I'll take a picture of it and post it on here in case my description is difficult to visualize

According to here https://www.ubnt.com/downloads/datasheets/unifi/UniFi_AC_APs_DS.pdf

The LITE signal range is 400ft and it looks their software will also help you a lot too with placement with that "heatmap" visual.