SSD and HDD problems: Project doesn't work like I imagined.

[Sam_Goody]

So, i've been having a pretty serious problem that I just can't figure out how to surmount. I've already searched to forums for my issue, and i found some slightly similar things, but nothing that will really help me.

 

 

​Here's the thing: I lost my boot copy of windows 8, and honestly, I don't feel like installing it along with 8.1, all those updates, and finally windows 10 again to install an SSD on which to run my OS; so I decided to opt for cloning software instead.

 

​And it worked!

 

But, I only bought a 250GB SSD, and my intention was to use my 1TB Seagate Barracuda to store my games, videos and otherwise ridiculously large files. A perfect plan... muhahahaha! ...Now only if also it worked... ah, the burden of genius is manifold....

​Ehem... Anyway:

​

For some reason, my system always uses the old HDD as the primary boot device when both drives are connected. I have even gone to the BIOS and told the configuration to disable the HDD as a boot drive; but the BIOS just wont listen. Even from the boot menu, the machine keeps treating the SSD as an OS-less disk, and asks me to put in the proper boot device. Having no way of actually formatting the HDD, I am at a loss of what to do next. My Plan is ruined! If anyone could help me out here, it would be much appreciated.

​Thank you!

​////// Additional Information: my motherboard is an ASRock H97M Pro4 //////

[Matt420740]

Try disconnecting the HDD all together and see if it will boot from the SSD then.  If it still won't, the cloning process didn't get something right with the boot files.  What software did you use?

[Sam_Goody]

Matt420742: I used the Samsung disk cloning software that came with the SSD.

​I have already done what you suggested, and yes, the SSD works like a charm; however, my intention was to use the SSD as the boot drive, and to use the HDD as a storage device for my games and videos for the future.

[mark4562]

i would try if you can doing a fresh install of windows as the cloning process might have not worked right 

[Gumi Rokkaku]

It sounds like the cloning didn't copy the os correctly.
If you boot on to the HDD, can you see things on the SSD or nah?

[Sam_Goody]

It sounds like the cloning didn't copy the os correctly.

If you boot on to the HDD, can you see things on the SSD or nah?

 

If I boot on the HDD, I can see the files on the SSD, if I enable the SSD when I use the HDD as a boot drive... but I won't try that again. The first time I did that, it really did screw my OS on the SSD up for me when I tried to boot it again.

​By the way: maybe it wasn't clear from my message, but the SSD *works perfectly as a boot drive* when I only have the SSD connected. I get fast boot speeds at less than 30 seconds even, and everything has worked delightfully so far. 

​The Witcher 3 now loads a saved game very quickly too. It only requires about another second after the little story recap plays, and I can load poicture folders almost instantly.

​So it seems that the OS on the SSD is fine to me. I suspect it's just a matter of getting the HDD to run properly as a slave drive in relation to the SSD.

[Gumi Rokkaku]

Master / slave configuration isn't really a thing anymore. Unless you have a really old motherboard.

I feel like there's a bios setting that's not set correctly. Make sure you're actually changing the boot order and saving changes. "Boot override" is not the same thing.

[zMeul]

remove the HDD and use the W10 install (USB thumb drive I guess) to repair the installation on the SSD

it's more than likely the cloning software did not copy and recreate the additional (hidden) partitions that are absolutely necessary for Windows to boot

[Matt420740]

Matt420742: I used the Samsung disk cloning software that came with the SSD.

​I have already done what you suggested, and yes, the SSD works like a charm; however, my intention was to use the SSD as the boot drive, and to use the HDD as a storage device for my games and videos for the future.

Thanks for answering.  I just wanted to make sure the necessary boot files were indeed working on the SSD.    Now that we know they are, the only thing you need to do to fix this issue, is remove the boot files from the HDD.  Right click on the start button, go to disk management, and find the 100MB "system reserved" partition on the HDD.  Delete that and you should be good to go.   The system will no longer try to boot from the HDD.

[Sam_Goody]

Thanks for answering.  I just wanted to make sure the necessary boot files were indeed working on the SSD.    Now that we know they are, the only thing you need to do to fix this issue, is remove the boot files from the HDD.  Right click on the start button, go to disk management, and find the 100MB "system reserved" partition on the HDD.  Delete that and you should be good to go.   The system will no longer try to boot from the HDD.

 

Thank you Matt. I think that's probably what it is too. However, I don't know how I would go about doing that, as I cannot actually boot the SSD while the HDD is also plugged in. If the HDD is plugged in, it boots from it (the HDD.) I suppose I haven't quite tried it, but I have a feeling that trying to remove that while running the OS from the HDD would result in either chaos, or it just wouldn't let me.

​I wonder, however, why it actually works like that. Shouldn't I just be able to disable the HDD as a boot drive from the BIOS? What happens? Is the OS key saved on the mobo, so that when the SSD wants to initialize, the mobo sends verification back to both HDD and SSD, but somehow the HDD ends up being dominant in that pull? That seems odd, as the SSD would be faster to pick up.

 

Well, it's a mystery. I really wish I could just disable the HDD on my mobo in the BIOS settings (that I set to disable the HDD)

[Sam_Goody]

Master / slave configuration isn't really a thing anymore. Unless you have a really old motherboard.

I feel like there's a bios setting that's not set correctly. Make sure you're actually changing the boot order and saving changes. "Boot override" is not the same thing.

 

master/slave config: dully noted. but you know what I meant

 Bios settings: I've looked everywhere that pertains to storage and/or boot that I could find, and I've set the boot order to prioritize the SSD as well as disabling the HDD from booting at all, yet it still does. And I do in fact save the changes. I can go into my bios right now, and it will tell me that the SSD will be booted before the HDD. it looks like this:

 

1. Windows boot manager

2. windows boot manager

​3. AHCI: SSD

4. AHCI: Disk Drive

[Matt420740]

I wonder, however, why it actually works like that. Shouldn't I just be able to disable the HDD as a boot drive from the BIOS? What happens? Is the OS key saved on the mobo, so that when the SSD wants to initialize, the mobo sends verification back to both HDD and SSD, but somehow the HDD ends up being dominant in that pull? That seems odd, as the SSD would be faster to pick up.

 

 

Your problem is stemming from the way you went about doing things.  Normally a storage drive starts out life as an empty drive, and files, programs, etc. are written to it to save space on the main drive, hence the term "storage drive".

 

However in your case, you have an existing OS and the corresponding boot files still on your "storage drive".

 

The proper way to have done this would have been to move your important files over to a temporary storage solution, usb or external drive, then the HDD should have been cleared of all partitions and a new volume created, to use as a storage drive.  Those OS files on the HDD are fooling the MB into booting from the HDD.

[IsaacDaGrazin]

Did you do save and exit on the bios? That happened to me once while trying to install Ubuntu 14.04 I just never pressed save so it didn't boot from my usb

[Sam_Goody]

Your problem is stemming from the way you went about doing things.  Normally a storage drive starts out life as an empty drive, and files, programs, etc. are written to it to save space on the main drive, hence the term "storage drive".

 

However in your case, you have an existing OS and the corresponding boot files still on your "storage drive".

 

The proper way to have done this would have been to move your important files over to a temporary storage solution, usb or external drive, then the HDD should have been cleared of all partitions and a new volume created, to use as a storage drive.  Those OS files on the HDD are fooling the MB into booting from the HDD.

 

I believe that's true. Is there a way I can do that from the same pc I've been talking about (removing the OS from HDD) or would it be best for me to select another pc? If I select another PC, I could run into the same problem again is what I was thinking.

​By the way, buying an external drive would actually be more expensive than buying a brand new hard drive, and my goal in using the old drive as a storage device was to save myself some money, so I just thought that this wouldn't be a very logical option.

[Sam_Goody]

Did you do save and exit on the bios? That happened to me once while trying to install Ubuntu 14.04 I just never pressed save so it didn't boot from my usb

 

I most certainly did. my bios are pretty cool, actually. How's running that Ubuntu?

[Gumi Rokkaku]

I can go into my bios right now, and it will tell me that the SSD will be booted before the HDD. it looks like this:

 

1. Windows boot manager

2. windows boot manager

​3. AHCI: SSD

4. AHCI: Disk Drive

Try setting the SSD as #1?

[Sam_Goody]

Try setting the SSD as #1?

 

Well, that does not work. windows just won't boot. I ended up just buying a 500 gb hard drive for $21. Still though, it's a shame. I want to figure out how I can wipe the other one so that I can expand my space again one I need it.

[TrifectaIII]

Well, that does not work. windows just won't boot. I ended up just buying a 500 gb hard drive for $21. Still though, it's a shame. I want to figure out how I can wipe the other one so that I can expand my space again one I need it.

You could probably simply plug it into somebody elses computer. I doubt it would still force a boot to your HDD with their motherboard and hard drives.

 

Or, you could get a USB hard drive dock that would allow you to access your harddrive as if it were an external usb device. So you would boot from your SSD, and then just plug the usb cable from the dock and see it pop up like a thumbdrive would. They run for cheap on amazon.

 

 

1. Windows boot manager

2. windows boot manager

​3. AHCI: SSD

4. AHCI: Disk Drive

 

I'm interested in this. The fact that you have 2 windows boot managers makes me think that one is tied to the SSD and the other is tied to the HDD. Have you tried switching the two around?

[Matt420740]

Well, that does not work. windows just won't boot. I ended up just buying a 500 gb hard drive for $21. Still though, it's a shame. I want to figure out how I can wipe the other one so that I can expand my space again one I need it.

For that you can use Ubuntu which will run from a USB stick.

 

Download Ubuntu - http://www.ubuntu.com/download/desktop

 

Use this to make a bootable USB - http://www.ubuntu.com/download/desktop/create-a-usb-stick-on-windows

 

Now, to use it, simply insert the USB, restart the machine, go into BIOS and set the machine to boot from USB, restart.   Once you're booted from the USB you'll reach a menu where you can either choose to install Ubuntu, or run the Live version.  Run the Live version.  Your machine will not install anything on the drives, but boot and run right from the USB.  Its a way for Ubuntu to let people try the OS before installing.

 

Once your booted into the Live version, you'll need to click on the Unity Button on the left side of screen (Top of taskbar with Ubuntu Logo) then type "disk utility"

 

Open up disk utility and from there you'll see your drives and can re-format the drive or do whatever else you want with it.  Unlike Windows you won't run into any snags where you don't have authority or access, in Ubuntu if you tell it to delete that shit, its gone.

[Sam_Goody]

You could probably simply plug it into somebody elses computer. I doubt it would still force a boot to your HDD with their motherboard and hard drives.

 

Or, you could get a USB hard drive dock that would allow you to access your harddrive as if it were an external usb device. So you would boot from your SSD, and then just plug the usb cable from the dock and see it pop up like a thumbdrive would. They run for cheap on amazon.

 

 

 

I'm interested in this. The fact that you have 2 windows boot managers makes me think that one is tied to the SSD and the other is tied to the HDD. Have you tried switching the two around?

 

I had that thought too, actually. But doing what you suggested did not help. I ran one windows boot manager as 1st in the boot order, then started my pc with only the SSD in it. It ran, and so I figured the boot manager I have must be tied to that one if indeed the theory was correct. So then I kept those configurations, using the SSD and the HDD this time, but still it booted from the HDD. So it can't be that.

[Sam_Goody]

But i do have a new theory:

Now that I've installed the new HDD, I can go to the task manager and see both of my disks in action.​ The SSD is labeled "Disk 1" while the new HDD is labled "Disk 0" Huh! Despite it being newer, it is smaller in sequence. Perhaps that is the way it normally goes, but i found this to be strange. Perhaps my mobo uses whatever the lowest SATA plug number disk that contains an operating system as its boot drive. I'll let you know what happens after I test this stuff.

[TrifectaIII]

I had that thought too, actually. But doing what you suggested did not help. I ran one windows boot manager as 1st in the boot order, then started my pc with only the SSD in it. It ran, and so I figured the boot manager I have must be tied to that one if indeed the theory was correct. So then I kept those configurations, using the SSD and the HDD this time, but still it booted from the HDD. So it can't be that.

Actually, that logic isn't sound. If there is only one drive in the system, it might not matter which boot manager you have set as first, for it might skip any non-existent ones. To truly test this theory, you need to actually switch the order of the boot managers while both drives are in the system, and try to boot in both different configs.

 

Regarding sata port order: I know that some motherboards have a specific port that it wan'ts the user to use for a boot drive, usually labeled on the board or listed in the manual. Might not hurt to break out the good old manual and see if it has anything to say.

[Sam_Goody]

Actually, that logic isn't sound. If there is only one drive in the system, it might not matter which boot manager you have set as first, for it might skip any non-existent ones. To truly test this theory, you need to actually switch the order of the boot managers while both drives are in the system, and try to boot in both different configs.

 

Regarding sata port order: I know that some motherboards have a specific port that it wan'ts the user to use for a boot drive, usually labeled on the board or listed in the manual. Might not hurt to break out the good old manual and see if it has anything to say.

 

That's a good point you bring up there. I would be surprised if it did matter though, as the drive is in fact cloned, and I think that this is what is causing so much confusion for the computer and why I have two separate windows boot managers there in the first place. The second windows boot manager stays around even when the HDD is removed, but before I installed and cloned the SSD, there was only one windows boot manager. So most likely, the boot manager is no more and no less cloned than the SSD itself is, and it is quite identical. I will test this again in the future. and let you know what I find.

​The manual didn't mention anything about the disks