Virtualized Machine Build Specification Help

[DAGGER51]

Hello,

 

I plan on building a new PC sometime in the near future, and I want to run Lime Tech unRAID Server OS to run 2 Windows desktops (and an additional NAS if possible) off of one PC.  I still need help deciding on a CPU, because in unRAID Server OS, you need to assign cores (all logical, not physical) to either "PC".  Noting that the Intel Core i7-6700K has 8 logical cores, would it be better to invest more in an i7-5820K (with 12 logical cores), so that each "PC" isn't bottlenecked by core count.  I will use one setup for heavy gaming, productivity, and other heavy applications, and the other will be used (not by me) for light productivity and light occasional gaming.

 

I don't have any experience working with such virtualization software, so here's my idea: I was thinking that the more powerful setup could be assigned 3 cores (6 logical), and the less powerful one 1 core (2 logical).  I don't know if only 1 physical core would bottleneck performance in some applications and games, considering it is on the new Skylake microarchitechture.  The less powerful "PC" is replacing a cheap, old system with an ancient, slow AMD quad-core with 4GB of RAM, and a 500GB mechanical HDD.  I will be overclocking as you would imagine for a system this powerful.

 

Don't worry about other component selections, because I planned most of that out already.  Specs include 16GB of DDR4 (does this need to be assigned to each "PC"?), a lot of storage, an R9 390, a cheap PCIe 1x GPU for unRAID (the Intel HD Graphics 530 in an i7-6700K are more powerful than a 1x card), and other quality components.

 

Thanks,

DAGGER51

[manikyath]

well, since skylake xeons are coming around, soon may be the time to fish up old servers from datacenters.

 

if you're lucky you can pick them up in the sub-100 dollar range. (the higher core count ones usually go for more tho)

[kkpatel87]

-snip-

 

I would not recommend virtualizing these tasks, especially a gaming/workstation build. You will not get the same performance and in fact probably sandbag yourself. Virtualization would be beneficial in the event you wanted to run a NAS and a domain controller on the same physical box, for example.

 

Additionally, you should never overclock a machine intended as a NAS as well. Overclocking reduces reliability and a NAS is supposed to be quite reliable.

 

I think you need to look at your requirements because I do not think you have thought it all the way through.

[DAGGER51]

well, since skylake xeons are coming around, soon may be the time to fish up old servers from datacenters.

 

if you're lucky you can pick them up in the sub-100 dollar range. (the higher core count ones usually go for more tho)

 

Yes, I could do that, but in order to maximize to power of each core, I will be overclocking.  Plus, the server-grade motherboards usually are much more expensive, and their PCIe specifications can be very complicated between SKUs.  Not to mention, they're often hard to find.

[DAGGER51]

I would not recommend virtualizing these tasks. You will not get the same performance and in fact probably sandbag yourself. 

 

You should never overclock a machine intended as a NAS as well. Overclocking reduces reliability and a NAS is supposed to be quite reliable.

 

I can do without a NAS built-in, by just adding even more drive space and configuring it correctly, but I still plan on running two virtualized Windows 10 desktops because I will get some more of the neccessary financial resources to build the system if I do.  Furthermore, I don't need ludicrous computing power, just enough to run things like SolidWorks, video editing and rendering software, etc.

 

By the way, I got the idea for this build from one of Linus's videos if you haven't seen it (he created a PC that does essentially the same thing I'm trying to accomplish, at the most basic level).

[kkpatel87]

I can do without a NAS built-in, by just adding even more drive space and configuring it correctly, but I still plan on running two virtualized Windows 10 desktops because I will get some more of the neccessary financial resources to build the system if I do.  Furthermore, I don't need ludicrous computing power, just enough to run things like Solidworks, video editing and rendering software, etc.

 

Just so that i understand you correctly, why do you want to virtualize two windows instances? Are you going to access both at the same time? If so, how? Any method i can think of has significant performance impacts. Additionally, Solidworks does not run well in a virtualized environment. 

[DAGGER51]

Just so that i understand you correctly, why do you want to virtualize two windows instances? Are you going to access both at the same time? If so, how? Any method i can think of has significant performance impacts. Additionally, Solidworks does not run well in a virtualized environment. 

 

Okay, so I'm essentially trying to run one gaming/workstation PC, and a generic desktop for someone else to use, off of one physical computer.  From my understanding, while unRAID Server OS may not be officially supported by SolidWorks, it should still run fine (nothing says it can't), and I can deal with a slight performance hit if it isn't anything major.

[kkpatel87]

Okay, so I'm essentially trying to run one gaming/workstation PC, and a generic desktop for someone else to use, off of one physical computer.  From my understanding, while unRAID Server OS may not be officially supported by SolidWorks, it should still run fine (nothing says it can't), and I can deal with a slight performance hit if it isn't anything major.

 

Ah ok, I understand what you are trying to do. I can see why you think its a good idea to consolidate these functions however, there is a couple things i want to point out:

1. There are special versions of other CAD/CAM/CAE software that allow for use in render farm type environments...solidworks is not one of them. 
2. Your graphics card is an odd choice for use as a workstation card. If this was strictly or primarily a CAD/video workstation, then you should use a FirePro or Quadro. If gaming or general use is the primary function then no worries.

I certainly do not want to tell you what to do, but my recommendation is that this is definitely not a good idea as you are not being efficient in use.

 

This is what linus did as an experiment with gaming machines but i would not recommend this approach for anything involving CAD software:

[DAGGER51]

Ah ok, I understand what you are trying to do. I can see why you think its a good idea to consolidate these functions however, there is a couple things i want to point out:

1. There are special versions of other CAD/CAM/CAE software that allow for use in render farm type environments...solidworks is not one of them. 
2. Your graphics card is an odd choice for use as a workstation card. If this was strictly or primarily a CAD/video workstation, then you should use a FirePro or Quadro. If gaming or general use is the primary function then no worries.

I certainly do not want to tell you what to do, but my recommendation is that this is definitely not a good idea as you are not being efficient in use.

 

This is what linus did as an experiment with gaming machines but i would not recommend this approach for anything involving CAD software:

 

Yes, I know that SolidWorks may not be the "best" choice for this type of environment, but I'm still not officially set on what I'll use for 3D modeling and physics calculations.  I chose the R9 390 because I will most often be gaming, and will be sufficient for doing things like CAD when I need to.  I still don't see why it's a bad idea, because Linus's experiment didn't show much of a performance hit at all (relative to what your eyes can see at around 100 fps), and wouldn't what I'm trying to do just divide the physical hardware resources between each setup?

 

In the end, I'm leaning towards this concept because I have a limited budget, and replacing another computer in the house might help me gain additional financial resources to pay for the build (i.e. people will chip in money).  Note that I won't be using a virtualized Windows environment forever, just for a couple of years, so it won't be an issue down the road.  Also, I'm coming from using a piece of crap PC that the only game it gets 60 fps in is Minecraft.

[kkpatel87]

Yes, I know that SolidWorks may not be the "best" choice for this type of environment, but I'm still not officially set on what I'll use for 3D modeling and physics calculations.  I chose the R9 390 because I will most often be gaming, and will be sufficient for doing things like CAD when I need to.  I still don't see why it's a bad idea, because Linus's experiment didn't show much of a performance hit at all (relative to what your eyes can see at around 100 fps), and wouldn't what I'm trying to do just divide the physical hardware resources between each setup?

 

In the end, I'm leaning towards this concept because I have a limited budget, and replacing another computer in the house might help me gain additional financial resources to pay for the build.

 

Are you modeling for engineering or for animations?

 

For 3D CAE and this environment, i would recommend Siemens NX (~25K USD for base use package) or Dassault CATIA (~50k USD for base use package). From my experience, solidworks (particularly the drawing package) has some trouble dealing with virtualization...that being said, im sure you can tinker with it and get it to function somewhat ok but my company tried all sorts of nonsense to make it work right. 

 

If you are mostly gaming and general use then its all good and i wish you luck. 

[DAGGER51]

Are you modeling for engineering or for animations?

 

For 3D CAE and this environment, i would recommend Siemens NX (~25K USD for base use package) or Dassault CATIA (~50k USD for base use package). From my experience, solidworks (particularly the drawing package) has some trouble dealing with virtualization...that being said, im sure you can tinker with it and get it to function somewhat ok but my company tried all sorts of nonsense to make it work right. 

 

If you are mostly gaming and general use then its all good and i wish you luck. 

 

Oh, I model for engineering, mostly as a hobby for creating automotive engineering ideas (think exotic automobiles and V12s), so my go-to was SolidWorks student (since I am still a student), so professional applications are WAY out of my budget.  I'm sure too that I can probably consult some SolidWorks forums to figure out how to configure it properly in a virtualized environment.  Thanks for the help!