AMD rebadged... Question.

[orcinhell]

Hi guys.

 

So I am looking at upgrading my GPU and was waiting for the 300 series to see what card I would upgrade too, I know the 390X will be a beast but that is not going to be in my price range. I was also a little disappointed to see sites and channels comment saying looking at the latest news all bets are everything below the 390X are going to be rebadges.

 

The 970 is a really nice product, currently in my area I can pick up a Gigbate G1 for 500 aud. I am looking for something around that performance and price range But am willing to drop in performance for a more favorable deal. While the 290 and 290X lag behind in some cases do you think the prices will drop on them even more?

 

The 290 to me seems like a really good positioned card, it offers great performance and while not as great as say a 970 it has a price that matches already coming in at 400 where I am. If prices drop even a little more it starts becoming a very tempting purchase.

 

What do you guys think... would you wait a little and get something like a 290 or even a x if you were hunting for a new card, if prices drop a decent amount more I would be really temped getting two to be honest. Would you wait and get a 300 series? Or forgo AMD altogether and go Nvidia.

[Speedbird]

Wait for the 300 series. Maybe they won't be rebranded. It would be stupid to use cards from 2013.

[orcinhell]

Wait for the 300 series. Maybe they won't be rebranded. It would be stupid to use cards from 2013.

 

That's what I thought... But if they were new wouldn't they be smaller then 28nm? 

[Guest Strangerbob]

Wait for the 300 series. Maybe they won't be rebranded. It would be stupid to use cards from 2013.

 

Can you explain WHY it would be stupid to use cards from 2013?

 

Since you still get more performance for less cost?

[orcinhell]

I am going off personal plans.

 

All I need is to game with high settings at 1080p/60hz my current game is GTA 5 so I am favoring how cards do in that and the 970 does very well. But the 290 also does well at pulling in around 8 frames less on the same settings while costing 100 dollars less ATM. if that price drops it becomes super appealing to me personally. Hell if they had a big drop say (which I am sure they wont) down to 360 from 400 I would buy 2 in a second.

 

Edit: To be honest I am sort of in odd spot, I am unhappy with my 7970 performance with the latest line of games and want to upgrade. But do not want to commit to a new 1440p 144hz Gsync/freesync monitor yet and want to wait a year or 2 until they have matured so to speak... So i am looking for a card that can run high settings and give me 60fps in most games over the next 2 years tops, the 970 has more leg room then ill most likely need at 1080 so if  a 290 becomes appealing for price vs performance ill pick it up in a second. And no real point going overkill in case I do upgrade because I am totally unsure of when that will be might be 12 months might be 24 months.

[Speedbird]

Can you explain WHY it would be stupid to use cards from 2013?

 

Since you still get more performance for less cost?

I didn't mean that one should upgrade from a 2013 card, but for AMD to market them as new is just stupid, as is any rebadge. The cards are placed in the Rx 300 lineup, while they lack the main features, such as HBM, TrueAudio or FreeSync.

[Speedbird]

That's what I thought... But if they were new wouldn't they be smaller then 28nm? 

Nope. If they were rebrands, they would be the exact same GPU. Not even a die shrink.

[R_Golden]

Nope. If they were rebrands, they would be the exact same GPU. Not even a die shrink.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/9241/amd-announces-oem-desktop-radeon-300-series

OP, the only reason to wait is if you're going to be getting a 390 or 390x. Otherwise just get a GPU now.

[Speedbird]

http://www.anandtech.com/show/9241/amd-announces-oem-desktop-radeon-300-series

OP, the only reason to wait is if you're going to be getting a 390 or 390x. Otherwise just get a GPU now.

OEM cards can be quite different from retail cards. Just because the OEM R9 380 is an R9 285 doesn't mean the retail one will be.

[R_Golden]

OEM cards can be quite different from retail cards. Just because the OEM R9 380 is an R9 285 doesn't mean the retail one will be.

Although the OEM can be a cut down version of the the retail card, I highly doubt they would have it be a completely different GPU under the same name.

[Guest Strangerbob]

I didn't mean that one should upgrade from a 2013 card, but for AMD to market them as new is just stupid, as is any rebadge. The cards are placed in the Rx 300 lineup, while they lack the main features, such as HBM, TrueAudio or FreeSync.

 

So, if you are getting more performance for less coin... thats stupid? yes?

 

I love how NONE of you people even know 2c about how processors work, but you have the nerve to call a few years old processor stupid...  what, you want a full lineup of new processors every month maybe? entitled kids much?

 

I COULD agree on the freesync as a feature that truly would be important enough to rage for. But i so far havent see a single freesync monitor with some "additional" issues. So thats a non-issue still.

[Speedbird]

So, if you are getting more performance for less coin... thats stupid? yes?

 

I love how NONE of you people even know 2c about how processors work, but you have the nerve to call a few years old processor stupid...  what, you want a full lineup of new processors every month maybe? entitled kids much?

 

I COULD agree on the freesync as a feature that truly would be important enough to rage for. But i so far havent see a single freesync monitor with some "additional" issues. So thats a non-issue still.

Once again, I'm not saying that everybody who buys an older card is stupid. I'm saying that for AMD to market old cards as new is stupid. I'm not saying that buying a 7950 R9 280 is stupid, but if AMD releases the same cards again and announces them as new cards that is stupid. Intel can make a new CPU lineup every year with no rebrands. I have nothing aganst buying older hardware, even I would rather buy a 2600K than a 4690K.

[Guest Strangerbob]

Once again, I'm not saying that everybody who buys an older card is stupid. I'm saying that for AMD to market old cards as new is stupid. I'm not saying that buying a 7950 R9 280 is stupid, but if AMD releases the same cards again and announces them as new cards that is stupid. Intel can make a new CPU lineup every year with no rebrands. I have nothing aganst buying older hardware, even I would rather buy a 2600K than a 4690K.

 

But they are NOT the same cards.

Even the improvement in clockspeed makes them different.

 

The only same, exact cards on the market ever were 8800gt and 9800gt from nvidia.

 

And intel might as well be a total rebrand, as their game performance from cpu`s goes up in 1-2% between the last 5 generations. Thats LESS than the performance difference between 7970ghz and 280x, just due to minor tweaks. And intel is making actual new architectures each gen.

 

But im sure you wont understand anyway. People like you SEEM to like to argue endlessly even if proven wrong again and again... just like christians.

[MEC-777]

OEM cards can be quite different from retail cards. Just because the OEM R9 380 is an R9 285 doesn't mean the retail one will be.

 

The R9 380/X will be the rebadged and slightly tweaked R9 290/X, not 285. There's a big difference.

 

The 370 will be the rebadged 285 (cut-down Tonga) and the 370X will be a new fully unlocked Tonga chip. The 280/X are being discontinued. 

[Speedbird]

But they are NOT the same cards.

Even the improvement in clockspeed makes them different.

 

The only same, exact cards on the market ever were 8800gt and 9800gt from nvidia.

 

And intel might as well be a total rebrand, as their game performance from cpu`s goes up in 1-2% between the last 5 generations. Thats LESS than the performance difference between 7970ghz and 280x, just due to minor tweaks. And intel is making actual new architectures each gen.

 

But im sure you wont understand anyway. People like you like to argue endlessly even if proven wrong again and again... just like christians.

Clockspeed differences do not make a new card. Board manufacturers tend to change them anyway, and a 7950 might even have higher clockspeeds as a 280. As for Intel rebranding, just because the performance is the same, doesn't mean that it should be called a rebrand. A rebrand, by definition, is a same product with a new name. Intel CPUs are not the same. And of course game performance won't be affected much by the CPUs because games depend more on the GPU. You would see a bigger difference while rendering or 3D editing.

 

And that last sentence is just a nice way of telling me to f*** off, right?

[Guest Strangerbob]

Clockspeed differences do not make a new card. Board manufacturers tend to change them anyway, and a 7950 might even have higher clockspeeds as a 280. As for Intel rebranding, just because the performance is the same, doesn't mean that it should be called a rebrand. A rebrand, by definition, is a same product with a new name. Intel CPUs are not the same. And of course game performance won't be affected much by the CPUs because games depend more on the GPU. You would see a bigger difference while rendering or 3D editing.

 

And that last sentence is just a nice way of telling me to f*** off, right?

 

Ok, sorry for being a bit of an asshole.

 

I understand what you are saying, i really do. 

But please see what i am trying to say -  that it doesnt matter - as long as you are getting a better price/performance ratio its good.

 

Also, my point about intel actually making new architectures each gen... but for us in game performance its like getting a refresh of the same thing over and over.

And no, there are lots of games that will benefit from the CPU.

Especially if you want to aim for 144fps... the cpu matters for close to half games, and new ones too.

[Speedbird]

Ok, sorry for being a bit of an asshole.

 

I understand what you are saying, i really do. 

But please see what i am trying to say -  that it doesnt matter - as long as you are getting a better price/performance ratio its good.

 

Also, my point about intel actually making new architectures each gen... but for us in game performance its like getting a refresh of the same thing over and over.

And no, there are lots of games that will benefit from the CPU.

Especially if you want to aim for 144fps... the cpu matters for close to half games, and new ones too.

Alright. My point was that AMD (or any company) shouldn't sell the same products under a new name. If they want to sell the older products, they should've kept the existing name. Having old cards with new names causes confusion, which is why I created a thread listing all the rebrands. If you're fine buying an older card, that's okay.

[MEC-777]

There's nothing wrong with buying/using an older based GPU as long as it supports the latest DX version that new games are being released with (DX11, 12 etc.).

 

The age and performance of a GPU are two different things. A few months ago I was using a friend's GTX 280 while I waited for my 7950 and R9 290 to go through the RMA process. It would only support games up to DX10, but that was it's only limitation. The performance was still very good considering it's age. 

 

Now, with regards to rebranding; I believe it is necessary in some cases and I also don't have a problem with it. If the chip still performs well in it's relative price range, and it supports the latest DX versions then there's nothing really wrong with continuing to use it. As far as naming it as a new card, they do this so their product line is complete. Many of them are, technically, new "cards" even if they use the same GPU chip. Many, if not all, of the 280/X's had revised/tweaked PCBs and cooler designs which separates them from their older 7000 series counterparts and actually makes them new cards. Also, it wouldn't make sense to continue selling 2 to 3 year old 7000 series cards along side a handful of new R series cards. AMD doesn't have the resources and time to come up with an entire range of brand new GPUs across the board, replacing most or all of the low, mid and high-end parts. It makes more sense for them to concentrate their efforts on their highest performance GPU and worry about updating their mid-range GPUs later. Tonga is replacing Tahiti and I suspect they will be looking to replace Pitcarn with a new GPU arch in the next generation as that will then be the current oldest GPU in their R9 stable. 

 

We have to look at the broader picture and remember that AMD and Nvidia do things differently. It doesn't mean that one way is "stupid" or "better" than the other, it's just different. Both provide various advantages/disadvantages and both have their trade-offs. Nvidia was able to release their entire GTX line up, this generation, all based on variants of the Maxwell architecture. In contrast, AMD has their R9 line up with each GPU group/series based on their own specific architectures. 

 

The bottom line is performance (frame rate and frame pacing) at the end of the day. The fact remains that even with AMDs "aging" chips, they still perform competitively and will still be very much relevant for some time yet.

[R_Golden]

The R9 380/X will be the rebadged and slightly tweaked R9 290/X, not 285. There's a big difference.

The 370 will be the rebadged 285 (cut-down Tonga) and the 370X will be a new fully unlocked Tonga chip. The 280/X are being discontinued.

Can you link me to the source for later use?

[Megahurt]

Alright. My point was that AMD (or any company) shouldn't sell the same products under a new name. If they want to sell the older products, they should've kept the existing name. Having old cards with new names causes confusion, which is why I created a thread listing all the rebrands. If you're fine buying an older card, that's okay.

With AMD at least you get to crossfire a new card with an old one. If the card has the performance and features that I want, it's not like it's been used, it's still new out of the factory, so why should I care ?

[Zulkkis]

It means that the tech is older, and that might deter some people.

 

I don't think that the 380 looks that bad, need to know more about pricing, though. A new Tonga with more hardware in it makes hella lot more sense than the current 285.

[MEC-777]

Can you link me to the source for later use?

 

It wasn't really from any single source. More based on the accumulative bits of info that has surfaced in the past few months. I wouldn't write what I claimed in stone, but I'd say there's a good chance that could be the line up we will see.

 

If the new flagship GPU is to be called "390", that means the naming of everything below it will be shifted.

 

290 to 380,

285(tonga) to 370,

270 to...360? and so on.

 

Just thinking logically, that makes the most sense to me and seems to jive with the info we currently have. 

 

I think they should have waited to introduce the tonga chip and not brought out the 285 when they did. Releasing full and cut-down tonga with fiji/xt, and then discontinuing tahiti would have been a better move IMO. But, AMD likes to do things differently, so what can I say? lol