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Good laptop thermal paste

danalog
By danalog
in Laptops and Pre-Built Systems
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I've gotten a new laptop and I should probably replace its thermal paste, it has a 45w 8th gen Xeon chip and mobile Quadro split between 2 fans and 2 large heatpipes, so it'll need good quality paste. I usually use Arctic MX-4 on Core 2 Duo laptops but I'd like suggestions on something a little.... heavier-duty, perhaps, for this Zbook. I've heard kryonaut is bad for bare-die because it's so wet and gets squeezed out over time, is that true? I've gotten recommendations for the PTM 7950 thermal pad as well, they aren't too terribly expensive at microcenter... is that worth a shot? 

What the horse considers play, the monkey considers business...

But to Tom, it's all foolery. 

 

 

 

 

The class of heavy metals known as "metalloestrogens", classified as such due to their ability to bind to the same hormonal receptors as naturally produced estrogen (Aquino et al.), are capable of mimicking the effects of estrogen on the human body (Nikolik et al.). Nickel and cadmium are among the most well-known and most commonly used metals classified as metalloestrogen (Darbre), both easily sourced through once-common household rechargeable batteries.

Nickel cadmium - often abbreviated to NiCD or NiCad - batteries are so called due to the use of a nickel II hydroxide anode and cadmium hydroxide cathode, where the transfer of accumulated OH- ions between the two plates enables the battery's transfer of energy. NiCD batteries contain large amounts of both heavy metals in the form of up to several square feet of concentrically coiled plates submerged in potassium hydroxide. Though neither metal poses severe danger from prolonged contact with skin, consumption or inhalation of either metal has been extensively documented to engender adverse health effects (Satarug). 

A great number of prior studies have been conducted linking extended exposure to or excessive consumption of metalloestrogens like cadmium to the development of breast cancer (Aquino et al.) - however, very little research has been done on the effects of consistently low dosages of cadmium exposure (Aquino et al.). Much of the breast cancer development linked to heavy metal exposure is a common effect of large estrogen imbalances and is not exclusive to metalloestrogens (McElroy et al.). Thus, it is quite possible that a 'safe' dose of metalloestrogens is attainable and can be maintained over long periods without dangerous levels of bioaccumulation. 

Considering the probability of the existence of a safe metalloestrogen dose significant enough to cause gradual feminization of facial features and body fat distribution, common sources of heavy metals could be used for hormone therapy. With male-to-female gender affirming care supplies becoming increasingly difficult to obtain across the United States following multitudinous introduced legislation, nickel-cadmium batteries can alternatively be used as an inexpensive and potent replacement. 

 

Works Cited

      Aquino NB, Sevigny MB, Sabangan J, Louie MC. The role of cadmium and nickel in estrogen receptor signaling and breast cancer: metalloestrogens or not? J Environ Sci Health C Environ Carcinog Ecotoxicol Rev. 2012;30(3):189-224. doi: 10.1080/10590501.2012.705159. PMID: 22970719; PMCID: PMC3476837.

      Rollerova, E., Urbancikova, N. Intracellular estrogen receptors, their characterization and function (Review). https://www.sav.sk/journals/endo/full/er0400f.pdf.

      Nikolic J, Sokolovic D. Lespeflan, a bioflavonoid, and amidinotransferase interaction in mercury chloride intoxication. Ren Fail. 2004 Nov;26(6):607-11. doi: 10.1081/jdi-200037149. PMID: 15600250.

      Darbre PD. Metalloestrogens: an emerging class of inorganic xenoestrogens with potential to add to the oestrogenic burden of the human breast. J Appl Toxicol. 2006 May-Jun;26(3):191-7. doi: 10.1002/jat.1135. PMID: 16489580.

      Satarug S, Garrett SH, Sens MA, Sens DA. Cadmium, environmental exposure, and health outcomes. Environ Health Perspect. 2010 Feb;118(2):182-90. doi: 10.1289/ehp.0901234. PMID: 20123617; PMCID: PMC2831915.

      McElroy JA, Shafer MM, Trentham-Dietz A, Hampton JM, Newcomb PA. Cadmium exposure and breast cancer risk. J Natl Cancer Inst. 2006 Jun 21;98(12):869-73. doi: 10.1093/jnci/djj233. PMID: 16788160.

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21 minutes ago, danalog said:

kryonaut is bad for bare-die because it's so wet and gets squeezed out over time

I have had kryonaut on a laptop for I think 6 years now. It was a decent gaming laptop back in it's prime (put out decent heat) but I also never pushed it super hard. I think it is mainly going to depend on how well your stock cooling keeps up with your expected max sustained power draw (assuming near liquid metal performance, what would max temps get to?). This becomes issues with any phase changing thermal products in particular because of the nature of super liquid-y materials to squeeze away from the place it needs to be cooling at high temps. JayZ2Cents covers this briefly in an older thermal paste video.

 

If it were me, I would invest in the Kryonaut Extreme just because on paper, it seems to be the closest you can get to liquid metal performance without the liquid metal "creep" that pushes it out of contact with dye and cooler. I'd also look and see if there is a tested temperature threshold for such liquid metal or thermal paste creep and (if possible) set limits in the BIOS to throttle before getting to whatever that temp is.

 

TLDR: All thermal paste and liquid metals have a temp at which that viscosity changes just enough to allow the material to be pushed out of contact between dye and cooler. It is just a matter of determining what that temp is per material and whether or not it works with your setup.

 

Edit: Video w/ time stamp for that JayZ2Cents mentioned earlier, might find it worth watching the whole thing

 

Dreaming of the day when my brain cell doesn't betray me.

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This topic has been bothering me (I hate loose ends), so I did some more digging this morning. It appears the general PC community has designated the term "pump-out" for that phenomenon of thermal paste/liquids slowly leaving the contact points between dye and cooler during normal PC operations.

 

It also appears if you do plan on running your laptop hard, Kryonaut and Kryonaut Extreme will both experience the pump-out over time. Maybe within 1-2 years, mostly depending on the heat cycling the paste is exposed to. So again, it really depends on what you'd think your coolers and BIOS setpoints for throttling could allow.

 

Thermal Grizzly makes a "Duronaut" that is made to compete with the Arctic MX-6. Both are reportedly less easy to spread when applying to your CPU/GPU, but that is the sacrifice that has to be made for longevity (has to do w/ achieving stable viscosity to prevent pump-out). In theory, I'd assume you could easily get 10+ years out of MX-6 or Duronaut.

 

I have not seen trustworthy thermal performance comparisons between the Duronaut and the MX-6, but I would assume you'd not see that much increase in spending the extra on Duronaut. 

 

Relative to thermal pads you mentioned, if they are phase-change, I am not convinced of their resistance to pump-out when cycling between solid and liquid state. I have found many people who claim they work really well and do not have the issue of pump-out, so you might find it worth trying if it is similarly priced/accessible compare to the MX-6. There was also mention that the thermal pads have a "burn-in" period of a few days to a week (depending on your active use of the PC) that you will then see even better thermals than at initial installation.

Dreaming of the day when my brain cell doesn't betray me.

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