Platform Upgrade From AM4

[ScarySceptile]

Country: Sweden

 

I'm finally feeling the need to upgrade my Ryzen 5700x its been everything I could ever want up until recently. It feels slightly underpowered for both gaming and some of my other hobbies I'm trying to get into like video editing and coding. I know there are technically upgrade paths for me within am4 like the 5800x3D if I wanted gaming or the 5900x or 5950x but if im paying that much for what would be to my understanding a marginal upgrade I might as well bite the bullet and just upgrade my whole platform.

 

My current build:

Case: Lian Li 011AIR Mini

Motherboard: MSI MAG B550 Tomahawk

CPU: Ryzen 7 5700X

CPU Cooler: Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO V2

RAM: Corsair Vengeance Black RGB LED Pro DDR4 3600MHz 2x16GB

SSD: Kingston KC3000 PCIe 4.0 NVMe M.2 SSD 1TB

GPU: Radeon RX 6800

PSU: Seasonic Focus GX 1000W

 

[tkitch]

Honestly, the 5700x is still perfectly competent for gaming.  

If you're upgrading, upgrade the platform, do not stay on AM4.  

[Tetras]

22 minutes ago, ScarySceptile said:

I know there are technically upgrade paths for me within am4 like the 5800x3D if I wanted gaming

5700X3D will likely offer you nothing for video editing and coding, but it can improve gaming in some types of games, especially at lower resolutions, though it can help with framerate consistency at all resolutions.

 

22 minutes ago, ScarySceptile said:

or the 5900x or 5950x

They are still very good CPUs if you need multithreaded performance, 12 Zen 3 cores is roughly equivalent to 8 Zen 4 cores in those kind of scenarios, BUT their single thread performance is way behind the 7000/9000 CPUs, so if you're experiencing slow downs in those contexts (lightly threaded) only a platform upgrade will offer you a large uplift.

 

22 minutes ago, ScarySceptile said:

It feels slightly underpowered for both gaming and some of my other hobbies I'm trying to get into like video editing and coding.

Can you describe that? Are you waiting too long for long tasks (e.g. 1+ hr) to complete, are your framerates uncomfortably low? In what circumstances do these things occur?

[Doobeedoo]

Well compare it with say my PC for stuff you care be it games etc. and prices, then decide.

[ScarySceptile]

1 hour ago, Doobeedoo said:

Well compare it with say my PC for stuff you care be it games etc. and prices, then decide.

I should have been clearer in that i was more wondering what to upgrade to I haven't heard great things about AM5 and with all the microcode stuff for 13-14 gen intel that doesn't sound very nice either

[ScarySceptile]

10 hours ago, Tetras said:

5700X3D will likely offer you nothing for video editing and coding, but it can improve gaming in some types of games, especially at lower resolutions, though it can help with framerate consistency at all resolutions.

 

They are still very good CPUs if you need multithreaded performance, 12 Zen 3 cores is roughly equivalent to 8 Zen 4 cores in those kind of scenarios, BUT their single thread performance is way behind the 7000/9000 CPUs, so if you're experiencing slow downs in those contexts (lightly threaded) only a platform upgrade will offer you a large uplift.

 

Can you describe that? Are you waiting too long for long tasks (e.g. 1+ hr) to complete, are your framerates uncomfortably low? In what circumstances do these things occur?

In games like civ and cities skylines I have very low frame rates and stuttering that seem to me come from 1% lows. And a lot of stuttering in video editing and compiling while coding takes longer then I think it should.

[Dedayog]

4 hours ago, ScarySceptile said:

I should have been clearer in that i was more wondering what to upgrade to I haven't heard great things about AM5 and with all the microcode stuff for 13-14 gen intel that doesn't sound very nice either

Lol what!?

 

Not great things about am5?  Apart from the best gaming cpu in the known universe, you have efficiency and performance that are on par or better than competing Intel chips.

 

What could you have possibly heard?

 

Am5 is the crowning achievement of AMD currently.

 

Maybe you meant the 9xxx series?

[ScarySceptile]

12 minutes ago, Dedayog said:

Lol what!?

 

Not great things about am5?  Apart from the best gaming cpu in the known universe, you have efficiency and performance that are on par or better than competing Intel chips.

 

What could you have possibly heard?

 

Am5 is the crowning achievement of AMD currently.

 

Maybe you meant the 9xxx series?

I haven't been paying a lot of attention to the releases I just remember people being disappointed by the thermal performance of the 7000 series before the x3d chips and that the 7900x3D and 7950x3D were disappointing. I have heard great things about the 7800x3D and its probably what I'm leaning towards but just wanted to see what other people would recommend.

 

And I like most other people have almost no positive things to say about Intel currently.

[Dedayog]

2 minutes ago, ScarySceptile said:

I haven't been paying a lot of attention to the releases I just remember people being disappointed by the thermal performance of the 7000 series before the x3d chips and that the 7900x3D and 7950x3D were disappointing. I have heard great things about the 7800x3D and its probably what I'm leaning towards but just wanted to see what other people would recommend.

 

And I like most other people have almost no positive things to say about Intel currently.

The thermal issue was a consumer ignorance thing.  People didn't understand how am5 worked.  But that was years ago almost.

 

Similar to 9xxx, given time it'll be shown they're great chips too.

 

All is well on AMD side, if anything they are doing things that are outside the norm and confusing people.

 

 

 

[ScarySceptile]

15 hours ago, tkitch said:

Honestly, the 5700x is still perfectly competent for gaming.  

If you're upgrading, upgrade the platform, do not stay on AM4.  

This was my thought was just unsure what to look at in the alternatives. Like should I go 7000 series or are the issues with 13th and 14th gen not as bad as they seem because just to my eyes intel seems to be a little better in the upper midrange at least here in Sweden but with all the microcode issues plus the general thermal challenges I have a hard time trusting them.

[ScarySceptile]

 

1 minute ago, Dedayog said:

The thermal issue was a consumer ignorance thing.  People didn't understand how am5 worked.  But that was years ago almost.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Like I said I haven't kept up with all the latest info. So there are no negative effects from the 7000 series being basically locked at 95 degrees like for longevity?

[Dedayog]

1 minute ago, ScarySceptile said:

This was my thought was just unsure what to look at in the alternatives. Like should I go 7000 series or are the issues with 13th and 14th gen not as bad as they seem because just to my eyes intel seems to be a little better in the upper midrange at least here in Sweden but with all the microcode issues plus the general thermal challenges I have a hard time trusting them.

I used to be pure Intel.  Before that I loved AMD.  Before that Intel.  Etc.  they've all had they're ups and downs if you know what to look for.

 

Currently, I own and only recommend AMD CPUs.  They're fantastic.  Intel's microcode doesn't forgive the YEARS of knowing this was happening or a design issue .

 

AMD 100% now

[Dedayog]

1 minute ago, ScarySceptile said:

 

Like I said I haven't kept up with all the latest info. So there are no negative effects from the 7000 series being basically locked at 95 degrees like for longevity?

No.  That's intended to by design.

 

You can undervolt in the bios to reduce that.  Set thermal and power limits too.

 

My 7700x was at 83c and 80w at 5.5ghz all core.   Stout little bastard.

 

The 7800x3d is even better.

[tkitch]

3 minutes ago, ScarySceptile said:

This was my thought was just unsure what to look at in the alternatives. Like should I go 7000 series or are the issues with 13th and 14th gen not as bad as they seem because just to my eyes intel seems to be a little better in the upper midrange at least here in Sweden but with all the microcode issues plus the general thermal challenges I have a hard time trusting them.

I'm still running 10th gen and gaming well, and core-per-core, 10th gen is slower than Ryzen 5000.

 

If you're seriously feeling limited by your CPU (And you'd better make fuckin' sure it's a CPU Limit) then you're kinda at a shit spot right this second:

Intel's kinda a mess and upgrading to 13th/14th gen isn't somthing everyone's gonna be keen on
AMD's a bit of a mess, and the gaming CPU can't be bought right now.  (The 7800x3d has nearly doubled in price over the last 2-3 months.)

 

So...  Were I sitting where you are, I'd keep my CPU until I can get a better upgrade.

Either 9800x3d or Arrow Lake Core 7 chips in a few months.  

[ScarySceptile]

1 minute ago, Dedayog said:

I used to be pure Intel.  Before that I loved AMD.  Before that Intel.  Etc.  they've all had they're ups and downs if you know what to look for.

 

Currently, I own and only recommend AMD CPUs.  They're fantastic.  Intel's microcode doesn't forgive the YEARS of knowing this was happening or a design issue .

 

AMD 100% now

 

Just now, Dedayog said:

No.  That's intended to by design.

 

You can undervolt in the bios to reduce that.  Set thermal and power limits too.

 

My 7700x was at 83c and 80w at 5.5ghz all core.   Stout little bastard.

Thanks that decreases my worries, I'll probably go 7800x3D.

[ScarySceptile]

1 minute ago, tkitch said:

I'm still running 10th gen and gaming well, and core-per-core, 10th gen is slower than Ryzen 5000.

 

If you're seriously feeling limited by your CPU (And you'd better make fuckin' sure it's a CPU Limit) then you're kinda at a shit spot right this second:

Intel's kinda a mess and upgrading to 13th/14th gen isn't somthing everyone's gonna be keen on
AMD's a bit of a mess, and the gaming CPU can't be bought right now.  (The 7800x3d has nearly doubled in price over the last 2-3 months.)

 

So...  Were I sitting where you are, I'd keep my CPU until I can get a better upgrade.

Either 9800x3d or Arrow Lake Core 7 chips in a few months.  

Alright, Ill hold of for the moment, its not like its urgent. Ill probably pick up a 7800x3D if the prices drop but you never know.

[Dedayog]

3 minutes ago, ScarySceptile said:

Alright, Ill hold of for the moment, its not like its urgent. Ill probably pick up a 7800x3D if the prices drop but you never know.

@tkitch has good points, so if you can afford to wait... do so.  Just know whatever you do, AMD is 100% fine these days.

[Doobeedoo]

5 hours ago, ScarySceptile said:

I should have been clearer in that i was more wondering what to upgrade to I haven't heard great things about AM5 and with all the microcode stuff for 13-14 gen intel that doesn't sound very nice either

I mean only X3D model left on that same gen, so 8 or 16 core X3D depends what you use it more games or multicore work. So need to check difference between them in performance for stuff you do qnd see if it's worth it. 

AM5 is completely fine, what. I have it for a year. Microcode stuff are just improvements. So compare on current platform the difference and then aslo on new. For me it was a huge jump from my older PC that I sold and gor enough money to invest in new, quite worth it. But I was 2 gens behind, you are one, but you are saying you're bot that satisfied, so depends what you want. You said until recently, are you doing some super heavy editing or very demanding games but want high fps. 

Can snatch a X3D model maybe even 16 core if you need for rendering and such, if that is not enough then new platform and sell PC for good price, worth it imo though.

[Tetras]

5 hours ago, ScarySceptile said:

In games like civ and cities skylines I have very low frame rates and stuttering that seem to me come from 1% lows. And a lot of stuttering in video editing and compiling while coding takes longer then I think it should.

The first game (Skylines) is a bit awkward to give recommendations on, because at least with the newer one, the last I heard was that optimisation is so bad that even top-end hardware struggles to play this game:

 

About video editing and compiling.

 

Video editing is kind of complicated, it depends on exactly what you're doing and how the CPU/RAM and graphics card are being utilised. Different apps, codecs and settings can make a big difference too.

 

Compiling is the same, also rather hard to give advice without knowing where the problem is. Compilers can certainly use multiple cores effectively, but some of them also don't and rely on just one.

 

Generically speaking, these are some numbers for single (1) and multi thread (2), but note that the X3D CPUs gaming performance doesn't show up here:

 

Ryzen 7 5700X: 3382, 26670
Ryzen 7 7700X: 4200, 36019
Ryzen 7 7800X3D: 3751, 34269
Ryzen 7 9700X: 4615, 37410
Core i7-14700K: 4474, 53284

 

https://www.cpubenchmark.net/compare/4814vs5036vs5299vs6205vs5719/AMD-Ryzen-7-5700X-vs-AMD-Ryzen-7-7700X-vs-AMD-Ryzen-7-7800X3D-vs-AMD-Ryzen-7-9700X-vs-Intel-i7-14700K

 

The 9000 series CPUs also have a significant advantage over the 7000 series whenever AVX512 is used.

 

41 minutes ago, ScarySceptile said:

Like I said I haven't kept up with all the latest info. So there are no negative effects from the 7000 series being basically locked at 95 degrees like for longevity?

 

This video explains a lot about how CPUs are currently intended to be run, but in short: if you're under the temperature limit, engineers consider it wasted performance. This is part of the reason why overclocking is barely viable anymore, they're already pushing the CPU to the maximum "out of the box". It is also a factor of how we're packing lots of cores in teeny tiny dies which are getting harder and harder to extract all the heat from.

 

If you want to hear from AMD themselves instead of an Intel engineer commenting on the behaviour of AMD CPUs:

Quote

 

Designed for a lifetime at 95

 

Before anything else, let’s be clear: All of the quality analysis for Ryzen 7000 series desktop processors was done at 95 degrees Celsius. The chip is engineered to live its life at this temperature with no detriment to longevity or reliability. In fact, this is the same design target we’ve had for a number of product generations, but it has not been until the Ryzen 7000 series that the platform has had access to a level of socket power that makes 95 C the temperature that delivers the most performance during multithreaded workloads… 

 

https://community.amd.com/t5/gaming/ryzen-7000-series-processors-let-s-talk-about-power-temperature/ba-p/554629

 

But, do note that the temperatures these CPUs hit while being benchmarked (e.g. with Cinebench) is NOT representative of their typical temperatures.

 

45 minutes ago, ScarySceptile said:

Like should I go 7000 series or are the issues with 13th and 14th gen not as bad as they seem because just to my eyes intel seems to be a little better in the upper midrange at least here in Sweden but with all the microcode issues plus the general thermal challenges I have a hard time trusting them.

We don't know is the simple answer, nobody does. Intel might have fixed the problem and we never hear anything about it, or... CPUs will continue to die and in 10 years time hardly any 13th-14th K CPUs still live.

 

If you're comfortable replacing the PC when the 5 year extended warranty runs out and don't care about the hassle of RMA and troubleshooting if you have a problem, then I suppose it doesn't matter if you buy Intel.

 

In terms of their overall value price/performance, that is hard to say without prices.