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using old computer for RAID

VinFurr
By VinFurr
in Servers, NAS, and Home Lab
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Go to solution Solved by AbydosOne,
16 minutes ago, VinFurr said:

I am thinking about RAID5 or RAID6. if i should not use it, why?

Yes, but... (see next point)

 

16 minutes ago, VinFurr said:

Will it prevent bitrot? (or anything else that negatively affect data integrity) if no, what should i do

Normal RAID5/RAID6 systems will not. However, the "software" RAID/filesystem called ZFS can handle data redundancy and integrity all in one. In ZFS, RAID5 is called RAIDZ1, and RAID6 is RAIDZ2. There are subtle differences, but they only make ZFS better.

 

17 minutes ago, VinFurr said:

What will happen if the motherboard dies?

ZFS is configured by disk UUID, not by port or controller, so you can migrate arrays from system to system with zero issue.

 

18 minutes ago, VinFurr said:

I dont have UPS and dont want to spend money on it if unecessary

Not strictly necessary, but a nice-to-have, IMO.

 

19 minutes ago, VinFurr said:

Hello, I am wondering if i should use my old computer as a NAS. As i am completely new on this field and have no experience, I need tips & tricks on what i need to know to get started

Look into TrueNAS (Scale is the better option going forward; the alternative is Core, which is slowly being replaced by Scale). It's a full-featured and well-supported NAS software that uses ZFS as it's base filesystem.

Posted

Hello, I am wondering if i should use my old computer as a NAS. As i am completely new on this field and have no experience, I need tips & tricks on what i need to know to get started

However, i do have concerns:

  • I am thinking about RAID5 or RAID6. if i should not use it, why?
  • Will it prevent bitrot? (or anything else that negatively affect data integrity) if no, what should i do
  • What will happen if the motherboard dies? i honestly can not find good information on that on google or youtube (maybe im using wrong search queries?)
  • I dont have UPS and dont want to spend money on it if unecessary
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16 minutes ago, VinFurr said:

I am thinking about RAID5 or RAID6. if i should not use it, why?

Yes, but... (see next point)

 

16 minutes ago, VinFurr said:

Will it prevent bitrot? (or anything else that negatively affect data integrity) if no, what should i do

Normal RAID5/RAID6 systems will not. However, the "software" RAID/filesystem called ZFS can handle data redundancy and integrity all in one. In ZFS, RAID5 is called RAIDZ1, and RAID6 is RAIDZ2. There are subtle differences, but they only make ZFS better.

 

17 minutes ago, VinFurr said:

What will happen if the motherboard dies?

ZFS is configured by disk UUID, not by port or controller, so you can migrate arrays from system to system with zero issue.

 

18 minutes ago, VinFurr said:

I dont have UPS and dont want to spend money on it if unecessary

Not strictly necessary, but a nice-to-have, IMO.

 

19 minutes ago, VinFurr said:

Hello, I am wondering if i should use my old computer as a NAS. As i am completely new on this field and have no experience, I need tips & tricks on what i need to know to get started

Look into TrueNAS (Scale is the better option going forward; the alternative is Core, which is slowly being replaced by Scale). It's a full-featured and well-supported NAS software that uses ZFS as it's base filesystem.

Main System (Byarlant): Ryzen 9 5950X | Asus B550-Creator ProArt | EK 240mm Basic AIO | 32GB G.Skill DDR4 3600MT/s CL16 | XFX Speedster SWFT 210 RX 6600 | Samsung 990 PRO 2TB / Samsung 990 EVO Plus 4TB | Corsair RM750X | StarTech 4× USB 3.0 Card | Realtek RTL8127 10G NIC | Hyte Y60 Case | Dell U3415W Monitor | Keychron K12 Blue (RGB backlight)

 

Laptop (Narrative): Lenovo Flex 5 81X20005US | Ryzen 5 4500U | 16GB DDR4 3200MT/s (soldered) | Vega II 384SP Graphics | SKHynix P31 1TB NVMe SSD | Intel AX200 Wifi | Asus 2.5G USB NIC | Asus ProArt PA278QV | Keychron K4 Brown (white backlight)

 

Proxmox Server (Veda): Ryzen 7 3800XT | ASRock Rack X470D4U | Corsair H80i v2 | 128GB Micron DDR4 ECC 3200MT/s | 2× Samsung PM963a 960GB SSD / 4× WD 10TB / 4× Seagate 14TB Exos / 4× Micron MX500 2TB / 8× WD 12TB (custom external SAS enclosure) | Seasonic Prime Fanless 500W | Intel X550-T2 10G NIC | LSI 9300-8i HBA | Adaptec 82885T SAS Expander | Fractal Design Node 804 Case

 

Proxmox Server (La Vie en Rose): GMKtec Mini PC | Ryzen 7 5700U | 32GB Lexar DDR4 (SODIMM) | Vega II 512SP Graphics | Lexar 1TB 610 Pro SSD | 2× Realtek 8125 2.5G NICs


Media Center/Video Capture (Jesta Cannon): Ryzen 5 1600X | ASRock B450M Pro4 R2.0 | Noctua NH-L12S | 16GB Crucial DDR4 3200MT/s | EVGA GTX750Ti SC | UMIS NVMe SSD 256GB / TEAMGROUP MS30 1TB | Corsair CX450M | Viewcast Osprey 260e Video Capture | TrendNet (AQC107) 10G NIC | LG WH14NS40 BD-ROM | Silverstone Sugo SG-11 Case | Sony XR65A80K

 

Workbench (Doven Wolf): Lenovo m715q | Ryzen Pro 3 2200GE | 16GB Crucial DDR4 3200MT/s (SODIMM) | Vega 8 Graphics | SKHynix (OEM) 256GB NVMe SSD | uni 2.5G USB NIC | HDMI add-in module

 

Network:

Spoiler 
                       ┌─────────────── Office/Rack ───────────────────────────────────────────────┐
Google Fiber Webpass ── Cloud Gateway Max ══╦═ Pro XG 8 ══╦═ Flex 2.5-8 ══╦═ Doven Wolf
                      La Vie en Rose (DNS) ═╬═ Narrative  ╠═ Veda-NAS     ╠═ La Vie en Rose (vmbr)
                                Veda (DNS) ─┘             ╠═ Veda (vmbr)  ├─ Ptolemy (vmbr)
╔═════════════════════════════════════════════════════════╩═ Ptolemy-NAS  ├─ Veda (Mgmt)
║   ┌ Closet ┐      ┌───────── Bedroom ─────────┐                         └─ Veda (IPMI)
╚═══ Flex XG ══╦╤═══ Flex XG ══╤╦═ Byarlant
       (PoE)   ║│              │╠═ Narrative 
Kitchen Jack ══╣└─ Dual PoE ┐  │╚═ Jesta Cannon*
   (Testing)   ║┌─ Injector ┘  └── Work Laptop
     Bedroom ══╝│        ┌─────── Media Center ────────────────────────────┐
     Jack #2    └──────── Switch 8 ────────────┬─ nanoHD Access Point (PoE)
Notes:                                         ├─ Sony PlayStation 4 
─── is Gigabit / ═══ is Multi-Gigabit          ├─ Pioneer VSX-S520
* = cable passed from Bedroom to Media Center  └─ Sony XR65A80K (Google TV)
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RAID does not protect against bit rot. Using HDDs or keeping your SSDs constantly powered does.

If your board dies, restore data from the backup that you should be keeping. If it's software RAID, most software can rebuild the array.

Don't need a UPS. 

What the horse considers play, the monkey considers business...

But to Tom, it's all foolery. 

 

 

 

 

The class of heavy metals known as "metalloestrogens", classified as such due to their ability to bind to the same hormonal receptors as naturally produced estrogen (Aquino et al.), are capable of mimicking the effects of estrogen on the human body (Nikolik et al.). Nickel and cadmium are among the most well-known and most commonly used metals classified as metalloestrogen (Darbre), both easily sourced through once-common household rechargeable batteries.

Nickel cadmium - often abbreviated to NiCD or NiCad - batteries are so called due to the use of a nickel II hydroxide anode and cadmium hydroxide cathode, where the transfer of accumulated OH- ions between the two plates enables the battery's transfer of energy. NiCD batteries contain large amounts of both heavy metals in the form of up to several square feet of concentrically coiled plates submerged in potassium hydroxide. Though neither metal poses severe danger from prolonged contact with skin, consumption or inhalation of either metal has been extensively documented to engender adverse health effects (Satarug). 

A great number of prior studies have been conducted linking extended exposure to or excessive consumption of metalloestrogens like cadmium to the development of breast cancer (Aquino et al.) - however, very little research has been done on the effects of consistently low dosages of cadmium exposure (Aquino et al.). Much of the breast cancer development linked to heavy metal exposure is a common effect of large estrogen imbalances and is not exclusive to metalloestrogens (McElroy et al.). Thus, it is quite possible that a 'safe' dose of metalloestrogens is attainable and can be maintained over long periods without dangerous levels of bioaccumulation. 

Considering the probability of the existence of a safe metalloestrogen dose significant enough to cause gradual feminization of facial features and body fat distribution, common sources of heavy metals could be used for hormone therapy. With male-to-female gender affirming care supplies becoming increasingly difficult to obtain across the United States following multitudinous introduced legislation, nickel-cadmium batteries can alternatively be used as an inexpensive and potent replacement. 

 

Works Cited

      Aquino NB, Sevigny MB, Sabangan J, Louie MC. The role of cadmium and nickel in estrogen receptor signaling and breast cancer: metalloestrogens or not? J Environ Sci Health C Environ Carcinog Ecotoxicol Rev. 2012;30(3):189-224. doi: 10.1080/10590501.2012.705159. PMID: 22970719; PMCID: PMC3476837.

      Rollerova, E., Urbancikova, N. Intracellular estrogen receptors, their characterization and function (Review). https://www.sav.sk/journals/endo/full/er0400f.pdf.

      Nikolic J, Sokolovic D. Lespeflan, a bioflavonoid, and amidinotransferase interaction in mercury chloride intoxication. Ren Fail. 2004 Nov;26(6):607-11. doi: 10.1081/jdi-200037149. PMID: 15600250.

      Darbre PD. Metalloestrogens: an emerging class of inorganic xenoestrogens with potential to add to the oestrogenic burden of the human breast. J Appl Toxicol. 2006 May-Jun;26(3):191-7. doi: 10.1002/jat.1135. PMID: 16489580.

      Satarug S, Garrett SH, Sens MA, Sens DA. Cadmium, environmental exposure, and health outcomes. Environ Health Perspect. 2010 Feb;118(2):182-90. doi: 10.1289/ehp.0901234. PMID: 20123617; PMCID: PMC2831915.

      McElroy JA, Shafer MM, Trentham-Dietz A, Hampton JM, Newcomb PA. Cadmium exposure and breast cancer risk. J Natl Cancer Inst. 2006 Jun 21;98(12):869-73. doi: 10.1093/jnci/djj233. PMID: 16788160.

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6 hours ago, AbydosOne said:

Look into TrueNAS (Scale is the better option going forward; the alternative is Core, which is slowly being replaced by Scale). It's a full-featured and well-supported NAS software that uses ZFS as it's base filesystem.

Been looking a bit around and having a NAS OS, like UNRAID or TrueNAS, seems to have benefits. Originally i was thinking using the inbuildt system in BIOS to create RAID storage would be enough (as i dont have huge requirement), but it seems like it will cause problem in the incident where the motherboard dies (altough the possibility is low, i will not risk it)

Do you know if you can install TrueNAS in the RAID disk? What I found is that it seems like the OS is in a separate disk than the RAID storage drives. What i think: OS in single SSD labeled "C:", while the RAID consisting of 4+ hdd/ssd is labeled "D:". correct me if i am wrong

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2 hours ago, VinFurr said:

Do you know if you can install TrueNAS in the RAID disk?

No, you can't. Separate drives for OS and storage array(s).

Main System (Byarlant): Ryzen 9 5950X | Asus B550-Creator ProArt | EK 240mm Basic AIO | 32GB G.Skill DDR4 3600MT/s CL16 | XFX Speedster SWFT 210 RX 6600 | Samsung 990 PRO 2TB / Samsung 990 EVO Plus 4TB | Corsair RM750X | StarTech 4× USB 3.0 Card | Realtek RTL8127 10G NIC | Hyte Y60 Case | Dell U3415W Monitor | Keychron K12 Blue (RGB backlight)

 

Laptop (Narrative): Lenovo Flex 5 81X20005US | Ryzen 5 4500U | 16GB DDR4 3200MT/s (soldered) | Vega II 384SP Graphics | SKHynix P31 1TB NVMe SSD | Intel AX200 Wifi | Asus 2.5G USB NIC | Asus ProArt PA278QV | Keychron K4 Brown (white backlight)

 

Proxmox Server (Veda): Ryzen 7 3800XT | ASRock Rack X470D4U | Corsair H80i v2 | 128GB Micron DDR4 ECC 3200MT/s | 2× Samsung PM963a 960GB SSD / 4× WD 10TB / 4× Seagate 14TB Exos / 4× Micron MX500 2TB / 8× WD 12TB (custom external SAS enclosure) | Seasonic Prime Fanless 500W | Intel X550-T2 10G NIC | LSI 9300-8i HBA | Adaptec 82885T SAS Expander | Fractal Design Node 804 Case

 

Proxmox Server (La Vie en Rose): GMKtec Mini PC | Ryzen 7 5700U | 32GB Lexar DDR4 (SODIMM) | Vega II 512SP Graphics | Lexar 1TB 610 Pro SSD | 2× Realtek 8125 2.5G NICs


Media Center/Video Capture (Jesta Cannon): Ryzen 5 1600X | ASRock B450M Pro4 R2.0 | Noctua NH-L12S | 16GB Crucial DDR4 3200MT/s | EVGA GTX750Ti SC | UMIS NVMe SSD 256GB / TEAMGROUP MS30 1TB | Corsair CX450M | Viewcast Osprey 260e Video Capture | TrendNet (AQC107) 10G NIC | LG WH14NS40 BD-ROM | Silverstone Sugo SG-11 Case | Sony XR65A80K

 

Workbench (Doven Wolf): Lenovo m715q | Ryzen Pro 3 2200GE | 16GB Crucial DDR4 3200MT/s (SODIMM) | Vega 8 Graphics | SKHynix (OEM) 256GB NVMe SSD | uni 2.5G USB NIC | HDMI add-in module

 

Network:

Spoiler 
                       ┌─────────────── Office/Rack ───────────────────────────────────────────────┐
Google Fiber Webpass ── Cloud Gateway Max ══╦═ Pro XG 8 ══╦═ Flex 2.5-8 ══╦═ Doven Wolf
                      La Vie en Rose (DNS) ═╬═ Narrative  ╠═ Veda-NAS     ╠═ La Vie en Rose (vmbr)
                                Veda (DNS) ─┘             ╠═ Veda (vmbr)  ├─ Ptolemy (vmbr)
╔═════════════════════════════════════════════════════════╩═ Ptolemy-NAS  ├─ Veda (Mgmt)
║   ┌ Closet ┐      ┌───────── Bedroom ─────────┐                         └─ Veda (IPMI)
╚═══ Flex XG ══╦╤═══ Flex XG ══╤╦═ Byarlant
       (PoE)   ║│              │╠═ Narrative 
Kitchen Jack ══╣└─ Dual PoE ┐  │╚═ Jesta Cannon*
   (Testing)   ║┌─ Injector ┘  └── Work Laptop
     Bedroom ══╝│        ┌─────── Media Center ────────────────────────────┐
     Jack #2    └──────── Switch 8 ────────────┬─ nanoHD Access Point (PoE)
Notes:                                         ├─ Sony PlayStation 4 
─── is Gigabit / ═══ is Multi-Gigabit          ├─ Pioneer VSX-S520
* = cable passed from Bedroom to Media Center  └─ Sony XR65A80K (Google TV)
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4 hours ago, VinFurr said:

Do you know if you can install TrueNAS in the RAID disk? What I found is that it seems like the OS is in a separate disk than the RAID storage drives. What i think: OS in single SSD labeled "C:", while the RAID consisting of 4+ hdd/ssd is labeled "D:". correct me if i am wrong

Correct. There is no "C:" in Linux, but yes, same idea. You will have a boot SSD and a vdev with a RAIDZ setup.

 

10 hours ago, da na said:

Using HDDs or keeping your SSDs constantly powered does.

Uh..... no. That is not what bitrot is. You need to actively scrub and very the data to prevent bitrot. Keeping things powered will not do this, and harddrives don't inherently help in any way over SSD's. Bitrot is if you get flipped bits on the storage device, or over time things are read and moved to different sectors of the drive and bits get flipped in flight. 

 

ZFS deal with bitrot via scrubs which compare the data to their checksums. If anything doesn't match correctly, it will rebuild the data from the redundency data found on the other member discs (this is not quite accurate, but its close enough to try and explain the mechanism).

Rig: i7 13700k +Contact Frame - - Asus Z790-P Wifi - - RTX 4080 - - 4x16GB 6000MHz - - Samsung 990 Pro 2TB NVMe Boot + Main Programs - - Crucial P3 2TB NVMe for photo work - - Corsair RM850x - - Sound BlasterX EA-5 - - Corsair XC8 JTC Edition - - Corsair GPU Full Cover GPU Block - - PTM 7950 - - XT45 X-Flow 420 + UT60 280 rads externally mounted - - EK XRES RGB PWM - - Fractal Define S2 - - DellAlienware AW3423DWF 34" -- Logitech Pro X Superlight - - Logitech G710+ - - LTT Northern Lights Deskpad

 

Headphones/amp/dac: Schiit Bifrost Multibit - -  Schiit Lyr 3 - - Fostex TR-X00 - - Sennheiser HD 6xx

 

Homelab/Media Server: Proxmox VE host - - 512 NVMe Samsung 980 RAID Z1 for VM's/Proxmox boot - - Xeon e5 2660 V4- - Supermicro X10SRF-i - - 128 GB ECC 2133 - - 10x8TB WD Red RAID Z2 - - 2x 800 GB SAS SSD’s (1 SLOG, 1 L2Arc) - - 45 HomeLab HL15 15 Drive 4U - - Corsair RM650i - - LSI 9305-16i HBA - - TreuNAS + many other VM’s

 

Unifi UDM Pro in front of full unifi network infrastructure

 

iPhone 17 Pro - - MacBook Air M3

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1 hour ago, LIGISTX said:

Uh..... no. That is not what bitrot is. You need to actively scrub and very the data to prevent bitrot. Keeping things powered will not do this, and harddrives don't inherently help in any way over SSD's.

Apologies if I used the wrong term in saying that SSDs will lose data in a few years when unpowered. HDDs don't have that problem (or at least they lose data a good deal slower) hence being recommended for cold storage. Of course, not a problem if you are keeping your drives powered. If a flipped bit happens to occur through some other way, if the HDD's built in ECC doesn't catch it, ZFS will, and if it slips past ZFS, restore from a backup.

What the horse considers play, the monkey considers business...

But to Tom, it's all foolery. 

 

 

 

 

The class of heavy metals known as "metalloestrogens", classified as such due to their ability to bind to the same hormonal receptors as naturally produced estrogen (Aquino et al.), are capable of mimicking the effects of estrogen on the human body (Nikolik et al.). Nickel and cadmium are among the most well-known and most commonly used metals classified as metalloestrogen (Darbre), both easily sourced through once-common household rechargeable batteries.

Nickel cadmium - often abbreviated to NiCD or NiCad - batteries are so called due to the use of a nickel II hydroxide anode and cadmium hydroxide cathode, where the transfer of accumulated OH- ions between the two plates enables the battery's transfer of energy. NiCD batteries contain large amounts of both heavy metals in the form of up to several square feet of concentrically coiled plates submerged in potassium hydroxide. Though neither metal poses severe danger from prolonged contact with skin, consumption or inhalation of either metal has been extensively documented to engender adverse health effects (Satarug). 

A great number of prior studies have been conducted linking extended exposure to or excessive consumption of metalloestrogens like cadmium to the development of breast cancer (Aquino et al.) - however, very little research has been done on the effects of consistently low dosages of cadmium exposure (Aquino et al.). Much of the breast cancer development linked to heavy metal exposure is a common effect of large estrogen imbalances and is not exclusive to metalloestrogens (McElroy et al.). Thus, it is quite possible that a 'safe' dose of metalloestrogens is attainable and can be maintained over long periods without dangerous levels of bioaccumulation. 

Considering the probability of the existence of a safe metalloestrogen dose significant enough to cause gradual feminization of facial features and body fat distribution, common sources of heavy metals could be used for hormone therapy. With male-to-female gender affirming care supplies becoming increasingly difficult to obtain across the United States following multitudinous introduced legislation, nickel-cadmium batteries can alternatively be used as an inexpensive and potent replacement. 

 

Works Cited

      Aquino NB, Sevigny MB, Sabangan J, Louie MC. The role of cadmium and nickel in estrogen receptor signaling and breast cancer: metalloestrogens or not? J Environ Sci Health C Environ Carcinog Ecotoxicol Rev. 2012;30(3):189-224. doi: 10.1080/10590501.2012.705159. PMID: 22970719; PMCID: PMC3476837.

      Rollerova, E., Urbancikova, N. Intracellular estrogen receptors, their characterization and function (Review). https://www.sav.sk/journals/endo/full/er0400f.pdf.

      Nikolic J, Sokolovic D. Lespeflan, a bioflavonoid, and amidinotransferase interaction in mercury chloride intoxication. Ren Fail. 2004 Nov;26(6):607-11. doi: 10.1081/jdi-200037149. PMID: 15600250.

      Darbre PD. Metalloestrogens: an emerging class of inorganic xenoestrogens with potential to add to the oestrogenic burden of the human breast. J Appl Toxicol. 2006 May-Jun;26(3):191-7. doi: 10.1002/jat.1135. PMID: 16489580.

      Satarug S, Garrett SH, Sens MA, Sens DA. Cadmium, environmental exposure, and health outcomes. Environ Health Perspect. 2010 Feb;118(2):182-90. doi: 10.1289/ehp.0901234. PMID: 20123617; PMCID: PMC2831915.

      McElroy JA, Shafer MM, Trentham-Dietz A, Hampton JM, Newcomb PA. Cadmium exposure and breast cancer risk. J Natl Cancer Inst. 2006 Jun 21;98(12):869-73. doi: 10.1093/jnci/djj233. PMID: 16788160.

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