Need help with gpu sag

[TurkishBTW]

I have the thermaltake h18 as a case and a rtx 2070 strix for the gpu but I’m trying to fix the gpu sag. The problem that I have currently is that it is a very small space between the gpu and bottom of the case. So I looked around and the only thing I could fit there was a toy car but issue is it looks like the car lifts it up too much would this cause a issue and is there any bracket or something I can get on Amazon to hold it up 

[Poinkachu]

12 minutes ago, TurkishBTW said:

I have the thermaltake h18 as a case and a rtx 2070 strix for the gpu but I’m trying to fix the gpu sag. The problem that I have currently is that it is a very small space between the gpu and bottom of the case. So I looked around and the only thing I could fit there was a toy car but issue is it looks like the car lifts it up too much would this cause a issue and is there any bracket or something I can get on Amazon to hold it up 

 

https://www.amazon.com/s?k=gpu+support+bracket&crid=3QCF0O1CKYUX8&sprefix=gpu+%2Caps%2C420&ref=nb_sb_ss_ts-doa-p_1_4

[IkeaGnome]

Amazon.com : anezus Fishing Line Nylon String Cord Clear Fluorocarbon Strong Monofilament Fishing Wire : Sports & Outdoors

 Can be tied off to the top of the case.

[TurkishBTW]

16 minutes ago, Poinkachu said:

 

https://www.amazon.com/s?k=gpu+support+bracket&crid=3QCF0O1CKYUX8&sprefix=gpu+%2Caps%2C420&ref=nb_sb_ss_ts-doa-p_1_4

Were you trying to send a link to a product or something

[Poinkachu]

6 minutes ago, TurkishBTW said:

Were you trying to send a link to a product or something

?

No, I sent you a link of a search result, consisting of various shapes of gpu support.

Measure the gap between the PSU shroud and the GPU, then pick your own poison shape/model that can handle that gap size.

[TurkishBTW]

14 minutes ago, Poinkachu said:

?

No, I sent you a link of a search result, consisting of various shapes of gpu support.

Measure the gap between the PSU shroud and the GPU, then pick your own poison shape/model that can handle that gap size.

I believe there isnt anything on amazon that small the clearance is exactly an inch

[Poinkachu]

1 minute ago, TurkishBTW said:

I believe there isnt anything on amazon that small the clearance is exactly an inch

Have you tried looking ?

 

 

 

 

[TurkishBTW]

21 minutes ago, Poinkachu said:

Have you tried looking ?

 

 

 

 

I may or may not be really bad at looking at descriptions apologies thank you

[Bagzie]

Have to love the inconsideration of some motherboard manufacturers when they block the first pcie slot with an m.2 when they know full well gpus are getting bigger and need clearance.

[Alex Atkin UK]

6 minutes ago, Bagzie said:

Have to love the inconsideration of some motherboard manufacturers when they block the first pcie slot with an m.2 when they know full well gpus are getting bigger and need clearance.

How old is the motherboard though?  It could very well pre-date GPUs getting so huge, given its AM4.

 

It also looks a fairly basic mATX board which are usually compromised in one way or another to get you to buy a higher end board.

[Bagzie]

8 minutes ago, Alex Atkin UK said:

How old is the motherboard though?  It could very well pre-date GPUs getting so huge, given its AM4.

 

It also looks a fairly basic mATX board which are usually compromised in one way or another to get you to buy a higher end board.

The problem is even on the current am5 lineup I know of atleast MSI and Gigabyte that block the first m.2 slot on alot of there boards and some of those boards are not entry level... £200+.

 

Asrock , Asus and others all use the first pcie slot for GPU even on there cheapest boards so can't really be argued for cost related reasons.

 

Bit annoying since even experienced builders can let that slip through there thought process.

 

First board is £106 asrock and the second is £190 MSI.

 

 

[Alex Atkin UK]

2 minutes ago, Bagzie said:

The problem is even on the current am5 lineup I know of atleast MSI and Gigabyte that block the first m.2 slot on alot of there boards and some of those boards are not entry level... £200+.

 

Asrock , Asus and others all use the first pcie slot for GPU even on there cheapest boards so can't really be argued for cost related reasons.

 

Bit annoying since even experienced builders can let that slip through there thought process.

I'd think its easier to route PCIe 5 to an M.2 first rather than having to work around a PCIe slot.  But you're right, its a pretty pathetic excuse when done on upper mid-tier boards.

[Bagzie]

4 minutes ago, Alex Atkin UK said:

I'd think its easier to route PCIe 5 to an M.2 first rather than having to work around a PCIe slot.  But you're right, its a pretty pathetic excuse when done on upper mid-tier boards.

You'll note that the asrock still manages to fit the m.2 above the first pcie slot.

 

Sorry I edited it whilst you where responding to show the issue.

 

Anyways I'm side tracking but I think it's useful for people to know

[Salted Spinach]

15 minutes ago, Bagzie said:

Have to love the inconsideration of some motherboard manufacturers when they block the first pcie slot with an m.2

That is actually a considerate design choice because many modern CPU coolers need the additional clearance to not be blocked by the graphics card. Try installing a 140mm tower cooler and you will understand. Motherboard designers have placed an m.2 slot there so as to make the space serve a dual purpose, freeing up precious motherboard real estate for other components.

 

Your issue with the small clearance from the PSU shroud lies in your choice of case and going mATX.

 

Look at the marketing images of the H18 where they have basically warned buyers about having ZERO clearance when using a dual slot card. Granted, they mounted the card on an even lower slot. 

 

https://www.thermaltake.com/versa-h18.html

[Bagzie]

5 minutes ago, Salted Spinach said:

That is actually a considerate design choice because many modern CPU coolers need the additional clearance to not be blocked by the graphics card. Try installing a 140mm tower cooler and you will understand. Motherboard designers have placed an m.2 slot there so as to make the space serve a dual purpose, freeing up precious motherboard real estate for other components.

 

Your issue with the small clearance from the PSU shroud lies in your choice of case and going mATX.

 

Look at the marketing images of the H18 where they have basically warned buyers about having ZERO clearance when using a dual slot card. Granted, they mounted the card on an even lower slot. 

 

https://www.thermaltake.com/versa-h18.html

Well that makes sense but I still beleive the compromise should be to limit your cpu coolers to 120mm and give your GPU more breathing room over being able to install a 140mm tower cooler.

 

Can also raise the cpu socket higher up to compensate for this like is done on some of the boards like is done on the cheap asrock motherboard , you'll note the distance from the socket to the pcie slot is comparable to the msi even though I'm basically eyeballing it.

 

Plenty of good 120mm options out there that perform close enough to 140mm that it shouldn't be a large concern.

 

Just my opinion ofcourse.

[Alex Atkin UK]

31 minutes ago, Salted Spinach said:

That is actually a considerate design choice because many modern CPU coolers need the additional clearance to not be blocked by the graphics card. Try installing a 140mm tower cooler and you will understand.

I'd forgotten about that as I used the NH-D15s.

Also as AIOs have become more common and smaller tower coolers more efficient, it doesn't make much sense any more.

[Salted Spinach]

2 hours ago, Bagzie said:

Well that makes sense but I still beleive the compromise should be to limit your cpu coolers to 120mm 

 

1 hour ago, Alex Atkin UK said:

Also as AIOs have become more common and smaller tower coolers more efficient, it doesn't make much sense any more.

I have to remind you that motherboard design has to accomodate for open choice of cooling solution. Pushing the CPU socket up encroaches on the available space at the top to accommodate VRM components and  large coolers as well. 

 

From a manufacturer's prespective, motherboard design based on self centered preferences that take away user options of cooling solution is counterintuitive to sales.

 

The primary component responsible to afford space for large components is the case. 

 

Perform sanity checks:

• To scrutinise the motherboard for inadequate space for the graphics card, as opposed to inadequate space for the CPU cooler. Are you the exception or the majority?
• There are other people who use the same motherboard and have no complaints with the motherboard layout despite having a monstrous 4090 or 7900XTX. Why is this so?
• There are people using even more cramped motherboards and in even smaller cases, but have no complaints despite having very large graphics cards. Why is this so? 
• I believe there people who have a H18 and had a reason to choose this specific case. Has the case design met its objectives? With respect to the reason to get this case, is the lack of clearance for the graphics card to be expected?

[Alex Atkin UK]

24 minutes ago, Salted Spinach said:

 

I have to remind you that motherboard design has to accomodate for open choice of cooling solution. Pushing the CPU socket up encroaches on the available space at the top to accommodate VRM components and  large coolers as well. 

 

From a manufacturer's prespective, motherboard design based on self centered preferences that take away user options of cooling solution is counterintuitive to sales.

 

The primary component responsible to afford space for large components is the case. 

 

Perform sanity checks:

• To scrutinise the motherboard for inadequate space for the graphics card, as opposed to inadequate space for the CPU cooler. Are you the exception or the majority?
• There are other people who use the same motherboard and have no complaints with the motherboard layout despite having a monstrous 4090 or 7900XTX. Why is this so?
• There are people using even more cramped motherboards and in even smaller cases, but have no complaints despite having very large graphics cards. Why is this so? 
• I believe there people who have a H18 and had a reason to choose this specific case. Has the case design met its objectives? With respect to the reason to get this case, is the lack of clearance for the graphics card to be expected?

I'd argue that an mATX motherboard that causes the GPU to block every single PCIe slot, or not even fit in an mATX case because you only have 2 usable slots out of three, is more of a problem. 

 

Having a slightly limited selection of coolers is less of a problem than having a hugely limited option for GPUs, given how many are 2.5 or 3 slot cards now.

Looking at this forum especially, hardly anyone is picking oversized coolers anymore.  Its AIO or the better budget tower coolers that fit easily.

[Salted Spinach]

56 minutes ago, Alex Atkin UK said:

I'd argue that an mATX motherboard that causes the GPU to block every single PCIe slot, or not even fit in an mATX case because you only have 2 usable slots out of three, is more of a problem. 

Here you are dealing with the issue of the mATX motherboard size. There are only so many PCIE cards you can viably install when in conjunction with a case that has only enough vertical space to fit the motherboard. Regardless of the PCIE slot layout

 

59 minutes ago, Alex Atkin UK said:

Having a slightly limited selection of coolers is less of a problem than having a hugely limited option for GPUs, given how many are 2.5 or 3 slot cards now.

Like I said earlier, you can have a 140mm cooler AND a giant card at the same time on your particular motherboard

 

But if you go out of your way to get a tiny case that won't fit all those components, dont blame the motherboard

 

1 hour ago, Alex Atkin UK said:

Looking at this forum especially

This forum does not represent the world, and yet we already have an NH-D15s owner in this very thread. They would have gone ballistic (along with everyone in the supply chain up to the cooler manufacturer) if hey had a motherboard that will not take the cooler with a graphics card installed.

 

This forum is a small portion of the the overall PC DIY community. Motherboard manufacturers want to sell to the world. 

 

I hope that by now you understand the real cause of your issues, even if you dont want to reneg on your original impression. The industry will not budge no matter what either of us say or opine in here, so I take this as my job done

[Bagzie]

3 hours ago, Salted Spinach said:

Here you are dealing with the issue of the mATX motherboard size. There are only so many PCIE cards you can viably install when in conjunction with a case that has only enough vertical space to fit the motherboard. Regardless of the PCIE slot layout

 

Like I said earlier, you can have a 140mm cooler AND a giant card at the same time on your particular motherboard

 

But if you go out of your way to get a tiny case that won't fit all those components, dont blame the motherboard

 

This forum does not represent the world, and yet we already have an NH-D15s owner in this very thread. They would have gone ballistic (along with everyone in the supply chain up to the cooler manufacturer) if hey had a motherboard that will not take the cooler with a graphics card installed.

 

This forum is a small portion of the the overall PC DIY community. Motherboard manufacturers want to sell to the world. 

 

I hope that by now you understand the real cause of your issues, even if you dont want to reneg on your original impression. The industry will not budge no matter what either of us say or opine in here, so I take this as my job done

That's not true though is it since MSI and Gigabyte are the only ones currently blocking of the first PCIE slot.

 

Having a Tower cooler limit set at 120mm is going to cause alot less problems than a GPU that's starved of air.

 

Just because we don't have a direct line to msi or Gigabyte to get them to change there decision making process doesn't mean we can't have a discussion on it.

[Alex Atkin UK]

6 hours ago, Bagzie said:

That's not true though is it since MSI and Gigabyte are the only ones currently blocking of the first PCIE slot.

 

Having a Tower cooler limit set at 120mm is going to cause alot less problems than a GPU that's starved of air.

 

Just because we don't have a direct line to msi or Gigabyte to get them to change there decision making process doesn't mean we can't have a discussion on it.

Its definitely not unique to MSI and Gigabyte, just checking a few from ASUS, some I own.

https://rog.asus.com/uk/motherboards/rog-strix/rog-strix-x570-f-gaming-model/

https://rog.asus.com/us/motherboards/rog-strix/rog-strix-b650e-f-gaming-wifi-model/

https://www.asus.com/motherboards-components/motherboards/tuf-gaming/tuf-gaming-b660-plus-wifi-d4/

 

They just also have ones that don't:
https://www.asus.com/uk/motherboards-components/motherboards/tuf-gaming/tuf-gaming-b660m-e-d4/

But then so does MSI:
https://www.msi.com/Motherboard/MAG-B660M-MORTAR

So I have to bite my tongue a little on what I said earlier, its not as much of a problem on mATX.  It seems to be more that on ATX boards they use chunky heatsinks because it appeals to people building gaming rigs in windowed cases, where appearance is more important.  Its form over function.  I don't think it has much to do with cooler compatibility given that audience prefer water cooling, although water cooling may to some extent need better VRM cooling but they often don't design the heatsink for optimum cooling anyway.