Nintendo... wtf??

[hanouzz]

Forgive me if I am dumb, but I did not know this. Apparently, it's perfectly legal to modify a HAC-001/V1 Nintendo Switch console with the RCM payload injector software and the RCM Jig, but it is illegal if I were to hypothetically buy a modchip for my 2019 patched Switch? I'm sorry, I don't get the logic here. Any thoughts, anyone?

[Levent]

This depends on where you live.

[hanouzz]

2 minutes ago, Levent said:

This depends on where you live.

US

[YoungBlade]

Note: I am not a lawyer.

 

As far as I know, there aren't any cases where someone modified a patched Switch and actually went to court against Nintendo for it. Even the injunction filed by Nintendo against a seller of these chips wasn't actually the sort of case where it would establish case law - the defendant failed to respond, so Nintendo won by default judgment.

 

From my understanding, the reason that it is probably illegal is that there are provisions in the DMCA that make it illegal to circumvent copyright protections. However, I've never heard of an actual case where these laws have ever been successfully prosecuted against an individual who simply bought such a chip - that is not when it would become illegal. It would probably be illegal the moment that you used the chip to circumvent any form of DRM or other copyright protection, and it would probably be illegal to sell such a chip, but simply buying and having the chip is fine.

 

As for using the chip, even that isn't 100% for-sure illegal. The reason is that the DMCA isn't that clear on when circumvention would (if ever) be allowed. There is a provision in the law that mentions that nothing in the law "affect rights, remedies, limitations, or defenses to copyright infringement" - which means that you might be able to argue from a fair use perspective, or perhaps that your modification is simply a means of backing up information that doesn't violate copyright.

 

However, this is unclear, and intentionally so. Part of the reason is that, in any situation where this comes up, the major corporation always moves to settle out of court to avoid it actually setting a legal precedent. Nintendo absolutely does not want to take a lone individual to court over this, because even if there's a 90% chance that they win, there's a 10% chance that using a modchip as a form of a backup is deemed legal, and such modchips can then be sold freely.

 

All that to say, as far as I know, it is not illegal to own a modchip for your Switch, and it is only probably illegal for you to mod a patched Switch.

 

Again, I am not a lawyer. If you ever want to try your hand at this, I would recommend that you contact an actual lawyer familiar with DMCA case law so you can discuss your particular use case and whether it is potentially legal.

[saintlouisbagels]

Doing this your own unit has no impact on their $$$

Making comprehensive easy-to-use tools and distributing them DOES _{hypothetically} impact them.

 

It's kind of like the Flipper Zero problem. You can easily DIY all of the functions on your own with easy-to-source parts. But it's a whole different problem if you compile everything together into a neat package and GUI that requires 1% of the original intelligence to achieve the same effect.

[hanouzz]

5 hours ago, YoungBlade said:

Note: I am not a lawyer.

 

As far as I know, there aren't any cases where someone modified a patched Switch and actually went to court against Nintendo for it. Even the injunction filed by Nintendo against a seller of these chips wasn't actually the sort of case where it would establish case law - the defendant failed to respond, so Nintendo won by default judgment.

 

From my understanding, the reason that it is probably illegal is that there are provisions in the DMCA that make it illegal to circumvent copyright protections. However, I've never heard of an actual case where these laws have ever been successfully prosecuted against an individual who simply bought such a chip - that is not when it would become illegal. It would probably be illegal the moment that you used the chip to circumvent any form of DRM or other copyright protection, and it would probably be illegal to sell such a chip, but simply buying and having the chip is fine.

 

As for using the chip, even that isn't 100% for-sure illegal. The reason is that the DMCA isn't that clear on when circumvention would (if ever) be allowed. There is a provision in the law that mentions that nothing in the law "affect rights, remedies, limitations, or defenses to copyright infringement" - which means that you might be able to argue from a fair use perspective, or perhaps that your modification is simply a means of backing up information that doesn't violate copyright.

 

However, this is unclear, and intentionally so. Part of the reason is that, in any situation where this comes up, the major corporation always moves to settle out of court to avoid it actually setting a legal precedent. Nintendo absolutely does not want to take a lone individual to court over this, because even if there's a 90% chance that they win, there's a 10% chance that using a modchip as a form of a backup is deemed legal, and such modchips can then be sold freely.

 

All that to say, as far as I know, it is not illegal to own a modchip for your Switch, and it is only probably illegal for you to mod a patched Switch.

 

Again, I am not a lawyer. If you ever want to try your hand at this, I would recommend that you contact an actual lawyer familiar with DMCA case law so you can discuss your particular use case and whether it is potentially legal.

Interesting take, I might just have to wait a few years when Nintendo no longer cares about the Switch (if they EVER release a successor). Yes, I have a regular patched Switch from 2019, so not much fun there. But I was thinking of buying an OLED Switch for the larger display. I play the Switch in handheld mode like 90% of the time, so it would be of use, especially on electronics day at school when I'm playing splitscreen MK8DX with the boiz. But I'd want to Homebrew it since it would be just mine. It would be pretty close to the ultimate Switch in my eyes, since it has a larger screen and the option of Homebrew if I install a modchip, which is much better than the basic & boring Switch OS (just the OS, not necessarily the games) that makes me want a Wii U and New 2DS XL. Obviously not gonna try this right now, as being a teenager out by 350 + 10% sales tax + however much the modchip costed is not good. But I would eventually like to have a Homebrewed Switch OLED.

[hanouzz]

5 minutes ago, saintlouisbagels said:

Doing this your own unit has no impact on their $$$

Making comprehensive easy-to-use tools and distributing them DOES _{hypothetically} impact them.

 

It's kind of like the Flipper Zero problem. You can easily DIY all of the functions on your own with easy-to-source parts. But it's a whole different problem if you compile everything together into a neat package and GUI that requires 1% of the original intelligence to achieve the same effect.

So like installing a modchip to my own Switch is alright, but paying to install it to other's Switches would become a problem? Yeah that makes sense, I was reading about this happening to a whole group of people earlier today.

[Guest]

On 4/23/2024 at 5:21 PM, hanouzz said:

Forgive me if I am dumb, but I did not know this. Apparently, it's perfectly legal to modify a HAC-001/V1 Nintendo Switch console with the RCM payload injector software and the RCM Jig, but it is illegal if I were to hypothetically buy a modchip for my 2019 patched Switch? I'm sorry, I don't get the logic here. Any thoughts, anyone?

Promoting (e.g. making a tutorial on YT) is illegal. Nintendo will not care if you modchip your Switch. Charging others to turn in their Switches so you can profit from modding is also illegal. If you only care about modchipping yours, you're 100% safe.

[DanteCoal]

In the US, it's 100% legal and legit to hack, mod, alter, tinker, paint, mold, and play with your switch in any way you want... HOWEVER, (I am legally obligated to say this) you have to do so ONLY with the console itself, and only with the games that you've legally bought, and only for offline play, as doing otherwise will break ToS, EULA, HIIPA, and the Geneva Convention (at least in Nintendo's eyes).

So, for example, if you have something like a Mig Switch device, you're 100% legally allowed to backup your own physical games and play them off of it, as the .xci file is tied to the four .bin files that ID the game, cart, and label it as a legit game.  If you did otherwise while online (aka not in Airplane Mode), and someone else was using that same game with the same .xci and same .bin files at the same time, one/both of you could get swept up in the next ban wave.  (It isn't instant, it happens in waves, so you can never know 100% if you're safe or not when you don't use Airplane Mode)

You can't make quick and easy software to hack a switch for someone else, you can't teach others how to do it, you can't make public videos about how to do it, and you 100% can not do anything that even suggests you might profit off if it.

[ThankGodItsFriday]

On 5/25/2024 at 10:40 PM, DanteCoal said:

In the US, it's 100% legal and legit to hack, mod, alter, tinker, paint, mold, and play with your switch in any way you want... HOWEVER, (I am legally obligated to say this) you have to do so ONLY with the console itself, and only with the games that you've legally bought, and only for offline play, as doing otherwise will break ToS, EULA, HIIPA, and the Geneva Convention (at least in Nintendo's eyes).

So, for example, if you have something like a Mig Switch device, you're 100% legally allowed to backup your own physical games and play them off of it, as the .xci file is tied to the four .bin files that ID the game, cart, and label it as a legit game.  If you did otherwise while online (aka not in Airplane Mode), and someone else was using that same game with the same .xci and same .bin files at the same time, one/both of you could get swept up in the next ban wave.  (It isn't instant, it happens in waves, so you can never know 100% if you're safe or not when you don't use Airplane Mode)

You can't make quick and easy software to hack a switch for someone else, you can't teach others how to do it, you can't make public videos about how to do it, and you 100% can not do anything that even suggests you might profit off if it.

I absolutely agree with this. Having done some modding on my Nintendo devices (never modded my Switch, though, and not sure if I'd ever want to, TBH) and reading quite carefully on what is legally acceptable and what isn't, Nintendo can't really make the claim that "all mods and emulators are illegal" (even though they do) and have it be true.

 

Modding is 100% legal as long as you're doing it for yourself with your own games. In most cases, emulation is legal as long as YOU provide the hardware keys from a device that YOU own, in an emulator that DOESN'T connect to the internet, or at least to official Nintendo servers. Mainly, though, this is true of older games. The big problem for anything made since the Switch's debut is Digital Rights Management, a big pain in the neck to those who want to play more recent titles like Super Mario Odyssey on their PC or smartphone, because DRM is now Nintendo's main tool to take down emulation for good.

 

Is it fair? I don't think so! I believe in DRM-free games and software, and Nintendo wants to keep everyone in their walled garden forever. By restricting the freedom of porting games you LEGALLY OWN, Nintendo has made it where you can't enjoy Quality-of-Life improvements for more modern games on other hardware, like 4K scaling or faster frame rates. IMHO, I do believe that this practice is going to hurt them in the long run - they can't keep making money off of successful lawsuits forever, and legal fees can hurt most any company that relies chiefly on one form of entertainment as revenue (though if Furukawa has his way, they may ditch console gaming altogether and just have hanafuda cards, theme parks, merch, TV shows and movies! Just my theory). They're also ticking off their fan base by DMCA'ing many fan projects.

 

Man, I dream of the day when we can all do this without any fear:

...But it's never going to happen. Not in this lifetime.

[DanteCoal]

20 hours ago, ThankGodItsFriday said:

I absolutely agree with this. Having done some modding on my Nintendo devices (never modded my Switch, though, and not sure if I'd ever want to, TBH) and reading quite carefully on what is legally acceptable and what isn't, Nintendo can't really make the claim that "all mods and emulators are illegal" (even though they do) and have it be true.

 

Modding is 100% legal as long as you're doing it for yourself with your own games. In most cases, emulation is legal as long as YOU provide the hardware keys from a device that YOU own, in an emulator that DOESN'T connect to the internet, or at least to official Nintendo servers. Mainly, though, this is true of older games. The big problem for anything made since the Switch's debut is Digital Rights Management, a big pain in the neck to those who want to play more recent titles like Super Mario Odyssey on their PC or smartphone, because DRM is now Nintendo's main tool to take down emulation for good.

 

Is it fair? I don't think so! I believe in DRM-free games and software, and Nintendo wants to keep everyone in their walled garden forever. By restricting the freedom of porting games you LEGALLY OWN, Nintendo has made it where you can't enjoy Quality-of-Life improvements for more modern games on other hardware, like 4K scaling or faster frame rates. IMHO, I do believe that this practice is going to hurt them in the long run - they can't keep making money off of successful lawsuits forever, and legal fees can hurt most any company that relies chiefly on one form of entertainment as revenue (though if Furukawa has his way, they may ditch console gaming altogether and just have hanafuda cards, theme parks, merch, TV shows and movies! Just my theory). They're also ticking off their fan base by DMCA'ing many fan projects.

 

Man, I dream of the day when we can all do this without any fear:

...But it's never going to happen. Not in this lifetime.

Many, many good points, all of which I agree with emphatically.  IMO, the biggest sin Nintendo is committing is essentially the core of their business model.  Of the big 3, they're hands down the best first party dev.  Sony makes good games in house, MS buys devs, but Nintendo consistently makes amazing games time after time after time... and they make them for hardware that's 1 or 2 generations behind, which punishes people for wanting a current gen experience.  Even something as basic and seemingly simple as Animal Crossing suffers from hardware limits, as anyone that decorates their island a lot will suffer HUGE frame issues, which wouldn't even be an afterthought if run on something that wasn't basically a modified 2010 tablet.

If Nintendo decided to allocate resources to future functionality (something they've rarely done at all), they'd probably by my preferred company of the three.  But as it stands?  PS is my favorite console, Nintendo is the most worth modding / hacking / buying a MIG for, and XB isn't a thing for anyone who owns a PC, lol.