My dad's old pc...

[WackySpace]

So I recently found out that HDD's get slower over time, and my dad had this old windows 7 pc for about 7 years now and he has been complaining the last two years how its very slow now. So I was wondering should the harddrive be replaced by an SSD, he also uses this old Windows Live Mail, and would definitely want to save his emails. I was thinking of cloning the OS but is a clean install a better idea?

[Dutch_Master]

A clean install is always better, he can save the old email from the original disk and copy it to the new install.

[WackySpace]

1 hour ago, Schnoz said:

An SSD would help massively in terms of performance, but I strongly suggest doing a clean install of Windows 10 on the SSD (and using the HDD as a backup drive for stuff like Windows Live Mail). That'll clean out 7 years of accumulated junk from the OS.

 

PM me and I can provide a legitimate Windows 10 ISO for you to use.

I know how to make a bootable ISO with rufus, but I'm also not sure if his pc can have more than one hard drive. It's a very small case. Micro atx motherboard and the case just barely fits it. You get the legit Windows 10 ISO from microsoft, inspect element and choose Galaxy Fold. Should I use HD Sentinel to check the Disk health and performance?

[chtorogu]

A clean install would be way better. Not only to get a fresh start, and clear out things that possibly slow it down, but also because it's not all that straightforward to clone from HDD to SSD. They use different cluster sizes and sector alignment so it has to be converted or you'll wear out the SSD prematurely. I think clonezilla can do the adjustments but I'd still go with a fresh start just in case it doesn't work.

 

You can backup his Windows Live Mail emails through the program's interface. Adding link to forum thread that tells you how.

 

https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/all/how-to-take-backuprestore-of-windows-live-mail/f14f5b59-5a61-481a-8b0a-2fcb5e4fd883

[ZeroDayWild]

what OS  you gonna install?

 

[WackySpace]

4 hours ago, ZeroDayWild said:

what OS  you gonna install?

 

Windows 10, but you see he has 2gb RAM, the cpu is 64 bit so it will have to be 32 bit windows 10.

[ZeroDayWild]

6 hours ago, WackySpace said:

Windows 10, but you see he has 2gb RAM, the cpu is 64 bit so it will have to be 32 bit windows 10.

here are some settings to change that will free up ram usage.  i do this on my old laptops with low ram and cpu like Celeron.

#1 turn off system restore
#2  allocate more hard drive for virtual ram
#3 on the start up program menu disable all from starting up except for Audio and video related apps.

#4  this one will boost performance a lot/
 

press window key and R,  type in the box services.msc ,  on the list look for Theme or Windows Theme and put it to stop and disable and  apply the setting.

on the same list look for Hyper-V .  there are several of it,  stop and disable the ones that allow you to do so.

optional on the same list disable windows update.

Trust me. there will be a noticeable difference in performance after applying these tweaks.

[chtorogu]

9 hours ago, WackySpace said:

Windows 10, but you see he has 2gb RAM, the cpu is 64 bit so it will have to be 32 bit windows 10.

Could't you upgrade the RAM? If possible it should't cost you more than 20 bucks or so to get a couple of 4 GB sticks.

 

Also he would be a lot better off if you install something like Linux Mint. Unless he needs some Windows only software you can't run through WINE. If it's just general purpose he should be fine with just native Linux software as that covers pretty much anything. Not really any learning curve either as it functions, UI-wise, pretty much like Windows. If you can't up the RAM I wouldn't even consider running Windows. In that case you should look at an XFCE based distro like Xubuntu or Linux Mint XFCE instead. Again not really any learning curve for general use.

[chtorogu]

4 hours ago, ZeroDayWild said:

#2  allocate more hard drive for virtual ram

This works well with an SSD as the access times are very quick compared to hard drives. There's a big caveat though; it will cause the SSD to wear out much faster due to the large increase in writes it causes. Adding more RAM is both better and also more cost effective in the long run.

[ZeroDayWild]

Just now, chtorogu said:

This works well with an SSD as the access times are very quick compared to hard drives. There's a big caveat though; it will cause the SSD to wear out much faster due to the large increase in writes it causes. Adding more RAM is both better and also more cost effective in the long run.

faster wear out on SSD  in exchange for better performance beats an usable laptop

[chtorogu]

14 minutes ago, ZeroDayWild said:

faster wear out on SSD  in exchange for better performance beats an usable laptop

For sure, if those are the only options. There should be better ways to go though. A lightweight Linux distro does fine with 2 GB and probably let his dad do everything he wants to use the PC for. That is if it's not possible to just upgrade the RAM, which would be the best option.

[ZeroDayWild]

Just now, chtorogu said:

For sure, if those are the only options. There should be better ways to go though. A lightweight Linux distro does fine with 2 GB and probably let his dad do everything he wants to use the PC for. That is if it's not possible to just upgrade the RAM, which would be the best option.

i seriously doubt that the OP's Dad knows how to use linux. however if Pappa all he does is watch cat video on youtube then a light weight Linux is a good idea.

[chtorogu]

19 minutes ago, ZeroDayWild said:

i seriously doubt that the OP's Dad knows how to use linux. however if Pappa all he does is watch cat video on youtube then a light weight Linux is a good idea.

He could do practically anything most users use their PCs for on Linux without much new learning or change. Many distros, including some lightweight ones, look and feel a lot like Windows. Install it, install the desired applications and pin the most used stuff to the taskbar and he's good to go. Modern Windows is a mess in many ways, including UI and UX. Many Linux distros are easier to use and are more visually cohesive and pleasing, in addition to running faster and more solidly. Linux Mint XFCE would be a great option for 2 or 4 GB RAM. The desktop looks and works like classic Windows and it's easier to manage updates and software installations plus no risk of his dad accidentally installing crapware or malware.

[ZeroDayWild]

i only use Linux to flash firmware on other devices

[chtorogu]

25 minutes ago, ZeroDayWild said:

i only use Linux to flash firmware on other devices

Then you're missing out. Windows is a mess, not preaching just stating fact. I work with IT support and clients' Windows installations frequently just break on their own. I got a PC for a client with a fresh install of Windows 11. Client was an old man who literally just used the PC to surf and pay his bills. Two weeks later he called and said nothing was working. I went back to help him and found there was now black login screen (no graphics) with white text that required a password. There was explicitly no password set for the PC so I had to reinstall. I now have to use group policy to stop Microsoft from ruining their systems with beta quality "quality" and "feature" updates to keep them from breaking. The UI is a mess as well, a confusing and jarring mix of new and old and the new taskbar for Windows 11 is literally just an overlay for the Windows 10 taskbar which is still there, minimized. Lazy and cheap. You seem prejudiced about Linux for some reason. Also, the whole point of using a lightweight Linux distro is to be able to do more with the resources at hand. Install Windows and his daddy would be extremely limited in what he could do and would need a lot of patience waiting for things to happen. Anyway, I didn't want this debate I just made a suggestion for what I think would be the best choice for his hardware.

[ZeroDayWild]

well i been trying to install linux and i get a black screen after install.  i made a post about it

[chtorogu]

2 minutes ago, ZeroDayWild said:

well i been trying to install linux and i get a black screen after install.  i made a post about it

It doesn't seem like you actually want to use Linux if you dismiss it as being "only for watching cat videos" and "only for updating firmware."

 

I think we've derailed this guy's thread enough now.

[ZeroDayWild]

well its not like you actually offered me a working solution.

[WackySpace]

13 hours ago, ZeroDayWild said:

here are some settings to change that will free up ram usage.  i do this on my old laptops with low ram and cpu like Celeron.

#1 turn off system restore
#2  allocate more hard drive for virtual ram
#3 on the start up program menu disable all from starting up except for Audio and video related apps.

#4  this one will boost performance a lot/
 

press window key and R,  type in the box services.msc ,  on the list look for Theme or Windows Theme and put it to stop and disable and  apply the setting.

on the same list look for Hyper-V .  there are several of it,  stop and disable the ones that allow you to do so.

optional on the same list disable windows update.

Trust me. there will be a noticeable difference in performance after applying these tweaks.

What if his hard drive is old. I know HDD get slower over time, just like cd's get scratched over time and takes longer and longer to write. Since it takes a lot longer to read and write, causing many things to take much longer to load, even simple things like windows explorer and a browser. I'm pretty sure his HDD usage is almost always at 100%. so allocating more virtual ram, or making the page file bigger won't do much if the hdd is slower than the ram, unless I upgrade with an SSD. But thanks for the advice.

 

[WackySpace]

9 hours ago, ZeroDayWild said:

i seriously doubt that the OP's Dad knows how to use linux. however if Pappa all he does is watch cat video on youtube then a light weight Linux is a good idea.

If I use Ubuntu maybe he can learn to use it as it is fairly simple to use, it is also more efficient that Windows. He doesn't use Office, but he does use Windows Live Mail, not sure how I'll export his emails over.

[WackySpace]

9 hours ago, chtorogu said:

This works well with an SSD as the access times are very quick compared to hard drives. There's a big caveat though; it will cause the SSD to wear out much faster due to the large increase in writes it causes. Adding more RAM is both better and also more cost effective in the long run.

Even if you use 4K alignment/ TRIM?

[WackySpace]

On 10/22/2023 at 5:24 PM, chtorogu said:

A clean install would be way better. Not only to get a fresh start, and clear out things that possibly slow it down, but also because it's not all that straightforward to clone from HDD to SSD. They use different cluster sizes and sector alignment so it has to be converted or you'll wear out the SSD prematurely. I think clonezilla can do the adjustments but I'd still go with a fresh start just in case it doesn't work.

 

You can backup his Windows Live Mail emails through the program's interface. Adding link to forum thread that tells you how.

 

https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/all/how-to-take-backuprestore-of-windows-live-mail/f14f5b59-5a61-481a-8b0a-2fcb5e4fd883

I use Minitool Partition wizard or HD CLONE 6, I find other clone tools always ask me to pay to use their clone feature.

[WackySpace]

Okay that's enough, I'll just close this topic.

[chtorogu]

2 hours ago, WackySpace said:

I use Minitool Partition wizard or HD CLONE 6, I find other clone tools always ask me to pay to use their clone feature.

Clonezilla is free and open source. You load it on a USB and boot it. Very reliable and straightforward to use.

[chtorogu]

3 hours ago, WackySpace said:

Even if you use 4K alignment/ TRIM?

Yes, because it causes increased writes. SSDs (NAND chips) all have a finite amount of writes before they fail. More writes cause faster degradation and earlier failure.