Which AIO coolers have a water temperature sensor?

[ChuckMaurice]

Hey folks! I'm looking for an AIO cooler that has a water temperature sensor (& PWM fan connector), so I can manage fan speed based on that and avoid CPU temperature hikes. My older AIO (NZXT Kraken K52) had that, but I'm unsure if newer coolers have it (the EK AIO I tried as a replacement didn't).

 

I need a 240mm AIO, and don't care about RGB, screens and such. I know most AIOs use Asetek pumps that are not the best but I care more about that feature than than upmost performance.

[Agall]

13 minutes ago, ChuckMaurice said:

Hey folks! I'm looking for an AIO cooler that has a water temperature sensor (& PWM fan connector), so I can manage fan speed based on that and avoid CPU temperature hikes. My older AIO (NZXT Kraken K52) had that, but I'm unsure if newer coolers have it (the EK AIO I tried as a replacement didn't).

 

I need a 240mm AIO, and don't care about RGB, screens and such. I know most AIOs use Asetek pumps that are not the best but I care more about that feature than than upmost performance.

An AIO's temperature delta is only a couple of degrees, so I don't see much of a point in doing so unless I'm entirely wrong. Its not heating up +10C where managing pump speed off coolant temperature would be sensible. I imagine you'd be changing speed by singular degrees.

 

I would suggest otherwise having a very shallow curve instead, and manage pump speed by the CPU temperature. You could also do what I did when I was using the EKWB elite 280mm AIO and simply put the pump speed at the highest speed fixed that wasn't audible, which was like 60% for me.

[ChuckMaurice]

14 minutes ago, Agall said:

An AIO's temperature delta is only a couple of degrees, so I don't see much of a point in doing so unless I'm entirely wrong. Its not heating up +10C where managing pump speed off coolant temperature would be sensible. I imagine you'd be changing speed by singular degrees.

 

I would suggest otherwise having a very shallow curve instead, and manage pump speed by the CPU temperature. You could also do what I did when I was using the EKWB elite 280mm AIO and simply put the pump speed at the highest speed fixed that wasn't audible, which was like 60% for me.

The problem is, yes, my 5800X3D is heating up +10-15°C for little to no reason sometimes. Temperatures on mine range from 32°C to 60 and that's just with light use on the desktop. I haven't found a way to make fan speed work (using FanControl software): fans either run dead silent then ramp up at the slightest temperature rise, or are more noisy than what I had with my Kraken that used liquid temperature to control the fans.

 

I think I'm gonna return the EKWB AIO (Nucleus 240) anyway, as even with the fans inaudible the pump is noticeably more noisy than my Kraken's (and I can't control it like you seems to be able to). Maybe that's because I couldn't route the tubing as well and it's a tight fit in an awkward position so the pump has to work more.

[GuiltySpark_]

6 minutes ago, ChuckMaurice said:

The problem is, yes, my 5800X3D is heating up +10-15°C for little to no reason sometimes. Temperatures on mine range from 32°C to 60 and that's just with light use on the desktop.

This is completely normal for Zen 3. Ryzen in general, really. Its nothing to worry about so focus more on ensuring its performing like it should under load. 

[Agall]

13 minutes ago, ChuckMaurice said:

The problem is, yes, my 5800X3D is heating up +10-15°C for little to no reason sometimes. Temperatures on mine range from 32°C to 60 and that's just with light use on the desktop. I haven't found a way to make fan speed work (using FanControl software): fans either run dead silent then ramp up at the slightest temperature rise, or are more noisy than what I had with my Kraken.

 

I think I'm gonna return the EKWB AIO (Nucleus 240) anyway, as even with the fans inaudible the pump is noticeably more noisy than my Kraken's (and I can't control it like you seems to be able to). Maybe that's because I couldn't route the tubing as well and it's a tight fit in an awkward position so the pump has to work more.

5800x3D is going to heat up because of the 3D v-cache mod. That modification adds two extra thermal layers to the CCD which will inevitably result in higher CPU temperatures.

 

At the same clock speed and wattage, a 5800x3D should see markedly higher CCD temperatures than a 5800x. Its why its TDP and Vcore are limited, since there's an inherent thermal limitation to adding these extra layers.

 

Now this isn't 1:1, but its possible that a delidded 5800x3D would get approximately the same thermal performance to a lidded 5800x, simply because they would each have an equal number of thermal layers, although not equal in thermal properties at all (comparing 3D v-cache and copper bonding to IHS and solder).

 

 

[ChuckMaurice]

Thank you both. After I change coolers I'm gonna try my luck at PBO2 to undervolt it and see if I get better results. I'm not quite confident enough to try delidding it (it's quite expensive for me still) but I'll keep that in mind.

[Agall]

15 minutes ago, ChuckMaurice said:

Thank you both. After I change coolers I'm gonna try my luck at PBO2 to undervolt it and see if I get better results. I'm not quite confident enough to try delidding it (it's quite expensive for me still) but I'll keep that in mind.

5800x3D doesn't support PBO2, that was a feature they added to the 3D v-cache SKUs in 7000x3D. If your motherboard lets you do it though, then sure, but just tread carefully. My 5800x3D on my X570 ROG Impact motherboard supported PBO2 for a couple of weeks till it randomly disappeared (without a UEFI update), although this was a drop in replacement for a 3950x that might've bugged out the UEFI a bit and let me use PBO2.

[RevGAM]

17 hours ago, Agall said:

5800x3D doesn't support PBO2, that was a feature they added to the 3D v-cache SKUs in 7000x3D. If your motherboard lets you do it though, then sure, but just tread carefully. My 5800x3D on my X570 ROG Impact motherboard supported PBO2 for a couple of weeks till it randomly disappeared (without a UEFI update), although this was a drop in replacement for a 3950x that might've bugged out the UEFI a bit and let me use PBO2.

Intelligent BIOS module???

[Agall]

3 hours ago, RevGAM said:

Intelligent BIOS module???

Not sure what you're referring to.

[RevGAM]

22 hours ago, Agall said:

My 5800x3D on my X570 ROG Impact motherboard supported PBO2 for a couple of weeks till it randomly disappeared (without a UEFI update

This.  

[ChuckMaurice]

@RevGAMDoes that mean my BIOS could support it? (I have a B550I AORUS PRO AX, BIOS revision F17)

[RevGAM]

1 hour ago, ChuckMaurice said:

Does that mean my BIOS could support it? (I have a B550I AORUS PRO AX, BIOS revision F17)

Please tag the person you are asking. Most people do not follow threads they're responded to. 

[RevGAM]

3 hours ago, ChuckMaurice said:

@RevGAMDoes that mean my BIOS could support it? (I have a B550I AORUS PRO AX, BIOS revision F17)

If you want to use PBO2, @Agallalready said you can't. 

[Agall]

3 hours ago, ChuckMaurice said:

@RevGAMDoes that mean my BIOS could support it? (I have a B550I AORUS PRO AX, BIOS revision F17)

Really the only things you can do to a 5800x3D involve RAM, which is past diminishing returns after 3200MHz/3600MHz, so I'd stick with that, and cooling. The longer you can sustain its maximum 4.45GHz (iirc) the better, but that's not an easy feat.

 

The heat soak latency of the chip is going to be the limit without removing layers like delidding, so giving it a massive air cooler isn't going to do much over a sufficient one unless you're drastically lowering ambient temperature.

 

5800x3D is really set and forget, it doesn't have the somewhat useful features the 7000x3D has like PBO2, but even then that's mostly just testing the silicon lottery. You'll find people messing around with undervolting and thinking they're getting a benefit but realize that they're simply causing the CPU to throttle like crazy. Can find plenty of threads here of people complaining about low cinebench scores with a 5800x3D and its almost always because they were trying to undervolt it.

[ChuckMaurice]

7 hours ago, Agall said:

Really the only things you can do to a 5800x3D involve RAM, which is past diminishing returns after 3200MHz/3600MHz, so I'd stick with that, and cooling. The longer you can sustain its maximum 4.45GHz (iirc) the better, but that's not an easy feat.

 

The heat soak latency of the chip is going to be the limit without removing layers like delidding, so giving it a massive air cooler isn't going to do much over a sufficient one unless you're drastically lowering ambient temperature.

 

5800x3D is really set and forget, it doesn't have the somewhat useful features the 7000x3D has like PBO2, but even then that's mostly just testing the silicon lottery. You'll find people messing around with undervolting and thinking they're getting a benefit but realize that they're simply causing the CPU to throttle like crazy. Can find plenty of threads here of people complaining about low cinebench scores with a 5800x3D and its almost always because they were trying to undervolt it.

Ok thanks, set and forget works for me. I bought the 5800X3D as a nice stand-in upgrade from my 3600X, not to tinker too much or chase cinebench scores anyway.

 

I think I will keep things as they were before, 5800X3D untouched + Kraken X52, with a full cleanup and new paste, and return the EK AIO. I thought it would be significantly better and silent, but if not, I'll keep my money for a new cooling solution when the Kraken dies. Mythological pun unintended.

[Agall]

15 hours ago, ChuckMaurice said:

Ok thanks, set and forget works for me. I bought the 5800X3D as a nice stand-in upgrade from my 3600X, not to tinker too much or chase cinebench scores anyway.

 

I think I will keep things as they were before, 5800X3D untouched + Kraken X52, with a full cleanup and new paste, and return the EK AIO. I thought it would be significantly better and silent, but if not, I'll keep my money for a new cooling solution when the Kraken dies. Mythological pun unintended.

I personally stick to massive air coolers now a days. I spent from 2014-2021 exclusively running mITX, which was superseded by the RX 6900 XT I ended up with that couldn't fit in mITX if you wanted to. An NH-D15 overall is a great investment, since you can simply buy new mounting hardware for it when you end up replacing it. If you're someone to likely hold onto hardware for a long time or want to use it for years, AIOs are just not reliable long term.

 

I've been using AIOs since 2013 where I was even using NZXT kraken G10 GPU brackets to mount them on graphics cards, they're great in the short term but I would expect issues after 3-4 years. Comparably, a giant air cooler like the NH-D15 or even the cheaper competitors don't ever go bad without gross negligence. EKWB's AIO is probably my favorite, since its basic with a PWM controlled pump, fill port, no software/USB required. NZXT on the other hand generally requires their software to function properly, although that's not something I've tested myself.

 

If I had the choice between those AIOs, I'd personally pick the EKWB for reliability/simplicity. Although I'm quite the function > form radical who has zero RGB in my system and no tempered glass.

[ChuckMaurice]

46 minutes ago, Agall said:

I personally stick to massive air coolers now a days. I spent from 2014-2021 exclusively running mITX, which was superseded by the RX 6900 XT I ended up with that couldn't fit in mITX if you wanted to. An NH-D15 overall is a great investment, since you can simply buy new mounting hardware for it when you end up replacing it. If you're someone to likely hold onto hardware for a long time or want to use it for years, AIOs are just not reliable long term.

That's what I do when I have ATX/mATX cases (my previous build used a Dark Rock 4 on a 4770k), but my ITX case (Phanteks Shift XT) is a "dual chamber" one, leaving half the width for the motherboard and its cooler. In retrospect I should've gone for a more classic case in ITX like a NR200P but I really like the look of mine and how easy it is to open and work in. I might get a single-chamber ITX case at some point but not until an upgrade force me to change, or a manufacturer makes one with a look I prefer.

I tried using a low profile aircooler (Noctua NH-L12 Ghost S1) but it's insanely noisy compared to the NZXT Kraken because of its little fan.

 

Quote

EKWB's AIO is probably my favorite, since its basic with a PWM controlled pump, fill port, no software/USB required. NZXT on the other hand generally requires their software to function properly, although that's not something I've tested myself.

Yesterday I found a nice project someone made, LiquidCTL, that would allow me to tune the NZXT Kraken better and avoid using the CAM software. The Kraken is from early 2019, hopefully it still has a few years left but I'm not sure how to diagnose its wear status aside from checking temperatures once in a while.

 

As the Kraken is my first AIO, what is your experience with aging coolers? Do you notice them being less and less efficient or do big issues come up at some point without warning?

 

[Agall]

18 minutes ago, ChuckMaurice said:

That's what I do when I have ATX/mATX cases (my previous build used a Dark Rock 4 on a 4770k), but my ITX case (Phanteks Shift XT) is a "dual chamber" one, leaving half the width for the motherboard and its cooler. In retrospect I should've gone for a more classic case in ITX like a NR200P but I really like the look of mine and how easy it is to open and work in. I might get a single-chamber ITX case at some point but not until an upgrade force me to change, or a manufacturer makes one with a look I prefer.

I tried using a low profile aircooler (Noctua NH-L12 Ghost S1) but it's insanely noisy compared to the NZXT Kraken because of its little fan.

 

Yesterday I found a nice project someone made, LiquidCTL, that would allow me to tune the NZXT Kraken better and avoid using the CAM software. The Kraken is from early 2019, hopefully it still has a few years left but I'm not sure how to diagnose its wear status aside from checking temperatures once in a while.

 

As the Kraken is my first AIO, what is your experience with aging coolers? Do you notice them being less and less efficient or do big issues come up at some point without warning?

 

ASUS ROG Z11 Mini-ITX/DTX Mid-Tower PC Gaming Case with Patented 11° Tilt Design, Compatible with ATX Power Supply or a 3-Slot Graphics, Tempered-glass Panels, Front I/O USB 3.2 Gen 2 Type-C - Newegg.com

This case has been perpetually on sale for $50 USD, which is worth its weight in parts TBH. 

 

Fits a 240mm AIO nicely and looks fancy. My brother has this case since he's quite the form > function radical. A relatively challenging case but definitely looked great and performed nicely afterwards. He runs my 5800x3D that I gave him to upgrade his R5 3600 and an EVGA RTX 3070 that I also gave him. Case swapped from the NR200 which let me upgrade his AIO to a 240mm from a 120mm (because he also needed one of my SFX-L PSUs to run the RTX 3070, which conflicts with the 240mm mount or the GPU). 

 

Regarding AIOs, I stuck to Corsair up until the EKWB, none of which failed but eventually lost enough fluid to start getting issues. AIOs bleed fluid through the tubes since they're somewhat porous, so after 3-4 years, you'll start to get more cavitation in the pump, which can eventually kill it. This is while mounting them in 'no no' configurations as well, so I got pretty lucky overall. I've only had to throw out one Corsair H50 out of the dozen or more I've purchased over the years that eventually became so noisy I couldn't use it, but it was several years old at that point. 

 

That's where I really like the features of EKWB's, also because they don't have any SATA power cables. I've been running PCIe 3.0 4x drives since 2015 (before NVMe ones existed) and running mITX makes having to use a single SATA cable from your PSU annoying. Even with my current build in a FD North, I don't have any SATA cables for the same reason.