Overwatch competitive gameplay?

[Mark Kaine]

I'm just wondering if the "competition" is actually better than in unranked/ QP, etc or if its largely the same (mostly brainlessly diving tanks etc )

because im noticing when im in a "half decent" team its not that difficult to win, but on the other hand most of the time people literally play like its their first day (and for some it probably is) 

But yeah, just generally are there more better players in ranked modes or is it largely the same?

 

Also i suppose if people actually team up they will completely steamroll randoms (most of the time)  i was trying to make a group of players so we could form an actual team, but its difficult,  most seem to prefer to play on their own (even though we were usually winning) kinda odd.

 

btw, after trying out Widowmaker, Mei and D.Va i mostly play Mercy now, she's just the most fun imo (the nerf really sucks though) so im just wondering if it makes sense to play ranked or if i should hold up for now - basically im curious about the differences between ranked and unranked modes?

[LogicalDrm]

There are couple of aspects. I play flex tank and support on ranked, both on mid-silver to low-gold. And dps on QP as I would be bronze to low silver on that on ranked, and team dynamics suck on those levels.

 

Lets start with how gameplay looks. It depends much on what level you play. From bronze to low silver its like QP, but everyone sucks with everything. Only good (or bad) thing is that team stays same across full attack/defend game (control and push are same as in QP, but team stays same). Also leavers is much bigger problem at lower levels of ladder. On mid-silver to gold (my level), its starting to be more constructed. Playing as team, having basic idea of tactics, play for the role, understanding that switching character is sometimes required to win, having mechanical skills and so on. So with good team, its great. With bad team, it sucks. With one bad player, its not optimal, but can work. And with even teams its really intensive. From gold to Plat, each of those aspects will get better. Plat is called "elo hell". I'm not quite into terminology to know what exactly that means. But some streamer described it as being place where you have either good mechanical skills or good gamesense, but not both. If you have both, you will climb to Master and above. I also think that toxicity of players gets greater the higher you go.

 

The issue and question is, how many characters you have currently? You listed 2 dps, tank and support. Of which tank is really situational and sucks against some other tanks, like Doom and Orisa. Mercy is solid and much used support, same with both Mei and Widow, though having Soldier, Cassidy, Ashe or Sojourn in the mix would help. You don't need deep hero pool, but you need to have something to switch to if things don't work.

[Mark Kaine]

1 hour ago, LogicalDrm said:

So with good team, its great. With bad team, it sucks. With one bad player, its not optimal, but can work. And with even teams its really intensive.

Thats basically the same as unranked (with the added extra that people probably take it more seriously, even if they suck...) i don't think im actually particularly good at anything,  except a sense for the game, which can also help a lot in some cases... i have a lot to learn still, and oh yeah i had those really intense fights where im usually the "weak link" but those are actually great cause i learn a lot in those (if my teammates help me)

 

Def Mercy seems to be the most consistent,  but also most dependent on the team, which i think shouldn't mostly be a factor if its an actual team and not a bunch of solo players (who only care for their kill count) 

 

1 hour ago, LogicalDrm said:

From gold to Plat, each of those aspects will get better. Plat is called "elo hell". I'm not quite into terminology to know what exactly that means. But some streamer described it as being place where you have either good mechanical skills or good gamesense, but not both

Hmm, i see, i heard that too, and wasn't sure what it means, that explanation makes sense i guess.

 

1 hour ago, LogicalDrm said:

The issue and question is, how many characters you have currently? You listed 2 dps, tank and support. Of which tank is really situational and sucks against some other tanks, like Doom and Orisa. Mercy is solid and much used support, same with both Mei and Widow, though having Soldier, Cassidy, Ashe or Sojourn in the mix would help. You don't need deep hero pool, but you need to have something to switch to if things don't work

Yeah, i started playing some other heroes like Soujorn, Soldier... and i haven't played as Widow much at all yet, i still really like her but im not sure it suits my playstyle.  As for switching mid game, sure that can make sense, but its a double edged sword, ive seen it go really badly too, where we were clearly winning and someone switched and then we lost because that didn't work at all (or they were bad)

 

With Mercy i feel shes kind of a joker card, def can win games by pocketing a really good player (thats also what some Mercy guides suggest)  Example Sojourn, or even Junkrat, but Sojourn is kinda "meta" it would seem, and its so much fun... (as Mercy) also Phara, but i need to practice that a lot, i get lost most of the time trying to follow her as Mercy lol...

 

Oh also Queen seems crazy good if pocketed by Mercy (i love Queen anyways but i feel shes really hard to learn)

 

As for Dva, seems situational yes, but also kind of a joker card, i mean she's really good at poking etc, shes not good against other tanks (its silly at most what you seem to get is a stalemate most of the time) also a high ground character,  which i figured already, but need to practice also (i basically suck as tank haha,  but it can be fun also)

 

Hence i should definitely practice more characters,  however i feel confident enough to try it with Mercy i think...

 

^none of the above is meant as a fact, just what i think i learned so far (that Dva guide i saw was eye opening,  i knew shes a flyer,  but i haven't actually tried playing her like that) <- basically i feel she needs a lot of experience,  i always think with good Dva players "what the hell are you doing...?" but then i see whatever it is, its clearly working!  They're basically everywhere.

 

 

And thanks for the reply, thats pretty much most stuff i was wondering about and yeah, if anything it feels it only makes sense as Mercy for me right now, see how it goes...

 

ps: thats the D.Va "guide" i saw... dont really see her going after other tanks (much) 

 

 

What i did learn, first take out the support, then go for the tank... : D 

 

 

[LogicalDrm]

56 minutes ago, Mark Kaine said:

Thats basically the same as unranked (with the added extra that people probably take it more seriously, even if they suck...) i don't think im actually particularly good at anything,  except a sense for the game, which can also help a lot in some cases... i have a lot to learn still, and oh yeah i had those really intense fights where im usually the "weak link" but those are actually great cause i learn a lot in those (if my teammates help me)

Well, do you keep track on how many players change during one round? For any of my games, its min 1-3. I have had games where in Control, whole team changes after first point. That won't be a thing in ranked. You are stuck with your team, for good or for bad.

 

This is why I have grain of salt when you say switch can go from good to bad. That sounds more like the actual player changes, not just what they play. Plus, with Control mainly, but in some parts of certain maps, players switch because they think/know character isn't very optimal anymore. 

 

56 minutes ago, Mark Kaine said:

ps: thats the D.Va "guide" i saw... dont really see her going after other tanks (much) 

 

What i did learn, first take out the support, then go for the tank... : D 

Don't know about the YT channel, the footage is from OWL Pro. I would recommend checking out Stylosa's Overanalyzed series. He looks at mainly lower level players, so techniques and tips are easy to take in. Even older videos could be good to learn basics of some characters. Playstyle has changed, but mechanics not that much for most. Here's the recent two for Mercy and Kiriko:

 

[Mark Kaine]

24 minutes ago, LogicalDrm said:

Well, do you keep track on how many players change during one round? For any of my games, its min 1-3.

Sure people change but that doesn't really happen that often, 1 or 2 per game maybe (usually) but often no one quits, even if we're losing, and what i meant was for sure the same players, one was phara... super easy win then they changed to someone else and that changed the whole dynamic and we lost... or another player was hamster, then changed to rein or something, didn't go well, but then he actually changed back to hamster and all was going well again. Generally people really dont change much, mostly healers and tanks maybe, especially tanks that aren't good change a lot, sometimes they find something that suits them better,  but usually they don't, they just keep diving/rushing.  i get what you're saying but at this level its really not a thing as much i feel.

 

its more like people play with what they're comfortable with instead of what would be strategically good... like i said previously,  a lot of people don't even understand theres an objective,  other than "kill the enemy" basically...  

32 minutes ago, LogicalDrm said:

Don't know about the YT channel, the footage is from OWL Pro. I would recommend checking out Stylosa's Overanalyzed series. He looks at mainly lower level players, so techniques and tips are easy to take in.

ah, thanks, I'll check it out. well that guid says pro, but im glad i watched it, it also has some really basic stuff, like going around corner before calling your mech (if you arent going for the mech recall kill) and just the mindset of being really mobile... it seems obvious but it isn't really for a beginner 

 

and yeah, i saw some others from OW1, where they had 2 tanks... im like, wait a minute...! but was still kinda useful,  also for using Dva shield especially,  thats another thing i really have to learn, she can eat a lot of ults apparently. 

 

Basically as i said before OW seems really easy to get into but there's so much stuff you need to know, its not actually that easy to get decent.  

[Ryuikko]

3 hours ago, Mark Kaine said:

Basically as i said before OW seems really easy to get into but there's so much stuff you need to know, its not actually that easy to get decent.  

Imo at the core of ow its really just ability interactions and how they effect each other. It's a bit harder to fully do well if you aren't entirely sure what does what to other characters and ect. 

3 hours ago, Mark Kaine said:

also for using Dva shield especially,  thats another thing i really have to learn, she can eat a lot of ults apparently

D.va is a real PITA when trying to do anything as hitscan since her dm just lasts for soooooo long. She kinda needs it though as she wasn't really designed to be a solo tank 

[Mark Kaine]

41 minutes ago, Ryuikko said:

Imo at the core of ow its really just ability interactions and how they effect each other

yeah, thats kinda what i meant, the more you know about the others and your own abilities the better you should do... however its just such a weird mix of skill levels in these unranked matches, which has up and downsides, but it feels you really don't need to know much at this level.  For example as Mercy the most important "skill" is to keep the back in check because there's basically always people sneaking up on you from behind,  usually hanzo, tracer,  reaper... anyone really, and most of the time your (inexperienced) team will be completely unaware of this.. And i got pretty good at making that clear if they aren't checking (and clearing) the rear it'll be a hard time (because they all die the moment i die anyway... "most of the time" lol)

 

And nah, i usually don't type anything, I'll just ping the enemy or actually shoot at them ,that usually works wonders!  

 

just saying,  i think you're very right but at this (weirdly mixed) skill level it doesn't matter as much, its more important the team works well together... 

 

Or sometimes the enemy team is just so much better,  you can really just try to not die too much, and maybe learn something,  although most of the time you don't even know what killed you ... 

 

 

41 minutes ago, Ryuikko said:

D.va is a real PITA when trying to do anything as hitscan since her dm just lasts for soooooo long. She kinda needs it though as she wasn't really designed to be a solo tank 

And again, in the majority of my matches the most dangerous thing is her ult, because people will have the worst positioning ever and its not really hard to take 3 or 4 out... of course with more skilled players she won't have too much luck with that. 

 

But honestly,  its probably the hero i understand the least lol... i had some good matches using her but that was because I had an ace team, a good dva does her thing even without a good team .

 

btw, not saying everyone plays bad, there are tons of good players no doubt,  just that the skill discrepancies are super apparent and some people don't really seem to care win or lose, which is fine, but also kinda annoying. 

[Mark Kaine]

I found this interesting... although im not sure I'd be hitting that level anytime soon.

 

honestly this sort of thing is one of the things what's holding me back trying ranked..

Quote

Every single match it's sojurn mercy orisa, nobody ever plays a fun comp anymore.

Not a single weird pick here and there it's all meta slaves and one shot heroes and i don't find that fun one bit

If i knew it would be this bad i would have never ranked up

Really wish they shake up the meta even more, would love to see more brig, echo, genji, you know actual fun characters

 

 

Although, tbh thats what I'd love, Sojourn/( or actually Queen)/ Mercy all day, its so much fun (but can see it getting boring if everyone does it) of course i could do this in unranked too, but there aren't too many good Soujorns (as mentioned i think Junker Queen / Mercy works very similar, but a good Queen is also rare seemingly*) and i kinda don't like Orisa, its a good hero but too easy too pick up and Orisa players usually over extend wildly (same for Rein) not caring what happens to their support...

(reminds me of that one time i pocketed Junkrat though that was also fun...)

*example: queen player who was teaching me the whole match (over mic) how to use Mercy, while also completely slaying the enemy team... i learned a lot and it was just a lot of fun! (i wish this would happen more often ... i also almost missed and flew into the wall but ¯\_(ツ)_/¯) 

 

 

Oh and i changed Mercy's controls to what everyone recommends,  i hate it, back to 100% default noob controls for me ~

 

ps: yeah, i still didn't play ranked yet... i do have an idea what's gonna happen,  i cant see it being much different to QP , ie, lotsa steamrolling from either side lol... but im also still pretty confident in my "Mercy skills" (Baptiste as fallback, uh) and Im also pretty sure if i had a semi-decent team, preferably with Queen (at least in bronze) it could go pretty well... i had so many great matches pocketing her, the players are usually really good and really motivated and the rest of the team is usually just hanging in there seeing whats going on (Queen and Mercy slaying everyone :D)

 

just saying... i think i need a team ._.

[CatHerder]

I feel like comp kinda ruined the game.

By far the most enjoyable period of OW was the months at launch, when all we had was QP. Of course the game was brand new back then, so that too contributed to the feeling.

People in general just seemed to be way less toxic, had more chill while still trying to win games, as only reward for winning was slightly more XP for new colored portraits. Being good at the game was the reward in on itself. After comp was released, all the players that tried to win went to play that, and QP was left with the people who either didn't care at all, or were trying out new heroes for the first time.

 

Primary issue with ranked systems is that losing feels like you've wasted your time, as one lost match nullifies any progress you've made by winning the previous match. Eventually you are stuck in this mindset where winning is expected, and losing is a setback. Then people get frustrated and start looking for someone to blame.

I believe the game would be much better off if comp was never released, and we just had QP with hidden MMR rating, so you'd still get matched against players at about your skill level.

 

Not every game needs to be a E-sport. Especially one with tons of asymmetric character design that will be near impossible to ever balance.

It seems the whole game was designed to be a fun casual game with characters for all styles of play and skill level, then as an afterthought Blizz tried to turn it into a E-sport.

[Mark Kaine]

2 hours ago, CatHerder said:

I feel like comp kinda ruined the game.

By far the most enjoyable period of OW was the months at launch, when all we had was QP

Honestly thats probably true... but... i actually feel like its still pretty friendly in QP *overall* ... theres some toxicity sometimes but mostly everyone is friendly ... seriously...

And if someone is toxic, or dumb, etc, you can basically always tell they're really bad at it and salty af about it  - either if thats because of "comp" or just because they're new/bad i cant tell for sure,  but the way they talk its probably a real skill issue  : D (and lack of self awareness)  i feel thats the case for every "competitive" game, but it could be way worse i feel -- and i think thats actually why i don't want to play "competitive" necessarily... i don't want this game to become unfun / toxic ...

 

Also you can *bet* there are super good players who dont play "comp" regularly, or at all, exactly for that reason... being good at "comp" proves  *exactly* nothing -- except maybe a very specific skill set

/ dedication  -- doesn't mean there aren't good players ofc, im just saying those two things aren't mutually exclusive,  you can be good and not be toxic... or hung up.

 

 

I just played with a dude who was very *high rank* (actually)  and well, he sure was good,  but i also sure as hell have seen better players - that weren't so hung up on their  "rank"...

 

¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 

 

 

2 hours ago, CatHerder said:

Not every game needs to be a E-sport

Also fun fact: just because there's a "competitive" mode doesn't make it "e-sports"... thats what tournaments etc are there for.

 

Actually now that you say it, thats a HUGE mistake to have a comp and none comp mode... that's where the *toxicity* comes from...

 

Just make one single mode thats "competitive" by default  - you get a rank and points etc... the way it currently is creates a very weird dissonance between players , and the obviously horrific match making doesn't help either lol

 

tldr: im still not sure if i should try "competitive" mode... especially without an actual team? i mean that seems to make it so much easier, but do people actually do that - often - or is that only a few, ie, are these teams really random usually?  That wouldn't really make sense imo (ie make it unnecessary hard)

 

 

[Mark Kaine]

3 hours ago, CatHerder said:

Primary issue with ranked systems is that losing feels like you've wasted your time, as one lost match nullifies any progress you've made by winning the previous match.

And thats an *Overwatch issue* because as far i have seen the ranking / points system is very bad, basically almost seems to be designed to create toxicity.... (its not like that in Tekken for example,  which is a *highly* competitive game btw, you can easily lose a couple of fights before downranking, and who even cares now youre like grandcheese master instead of super ogre... me personally certainly not, i have over 100k (afaik, its kinda impossible to say exactly) wins in Tekken i kind of *know* my skill level (about average tbh, there are far better players than me) 

 

Its the same for the endorsement level... so i got endorsement level *4*... then i played a match where i got 1 endorsement,  then a match where i got 4 endorsement (that happens a lot btw) and >then> the game told me im now level *3* again. literally wtf, it makes no sense (im back to level 4 again now after some matches btw!)

 

So yeah, that's why people say "endorsement levels don't matter"  - because its unfair and weirdly designed...

.But the thing is THEY DO MATTER,  i guarantee you that (but unfortunately blizzard managed to turn a good idea in something that doesn't really make sense and confuses people) 

[Ryuikko]

2 hours ago, Mark Kaine said:

Honestly thats probably true... but... i actually feel like its still pretty friendly in QP *overall* ... theres some toxicity sometimes but mostly everyone is friendly ... seriously...

I feel like with toxicity in these games it mainly looks like an inverse dunning kreuger curve in terms of seething hatred. Lower ranked people usually don't care as much as winning imo as much as someone in gold or plat struggling their way out of elo hell. And by the time you're at the top of the ladder, you 9 times out of 10 will recognize the players on your team so you tend to be a bit more affable with them

[Mark Kaine]

On 3/8/2023 at 7:02 AM, Ryuikko said:

I feel like with toxicity in these games it mainly looks like an inverse dunning kreuger curve in terms of seething hatred. Lower ranked people usually don't care as much as winning imo as much as someone in gold or plat struggling their way out of elo hell. And by the time you're at the top of the ladder, you 9 times out of 10 will recognize the players on your team so you tend to be a bit more affable with them

i still think that the level up system,  matchmaking, and lots of small details are less than ideal and add to any toxicity the game may have (and ive got to believe it,  for ranked especially i guess)

 

I would have several ideas to make it more friendly, less toxicity inducing,ie more fair,  but thats just me ,no way blizzard would listen to any of this, plus there's always tons of people who would oppose a fairer system because they like how it is (and "dont care about X")

 

 

really the endorse level thing is as said hilarious,  i keep bouncing between 3 and 4, and honestly it feels like i should probably be a 4 or 5 at least, but just because sometimes people dont endorse at all it keeps bouncing... IF you have such a silly/awkward system then you also should make this mandatory,  wouldnt be perfect but would at least be an improvement toward a more fair system. 

 

Or you get a server error,  often blizzards fault for sure, and then that counts towards your "disconnect rate"... uh, i get it, thats not an easy thing to detect, but i feel they should at least be more open about it (thats one of the main suggestions i would make anyway,  blizzards secrecy about many things doesn't really help at all)

 

also: people can hide their stats, sure, cool (if uber unnecessary)  but then ingame you actually see it for the current game... that also creates a weird dissonance where you don't know if they really suck, are new, are throwing,  or whatever... it just doesn't help at all, either give option to always show stats, or never, not this weird mix...

 

tldr; i definitely blame the developer here most, rather than players, even though there surely are exceptional individuals who would always be toxic, no matter what, but surely all those ranking systems could be designed less frustrating and fairer,  its actually not rocket science,  more like devs doing dev stuff not really understanding the product or userbase.

 

but anyways as i said, i mostly see friendly people,  i also often recognize players that i already played with, it does help to have an idea what to expect, regardless if they're enemy or own team.

 

 

[Mark Kaine]

On 3/8/2023 at 2:12 AM, CatHerder said:

I feel like comp kinda ruined the game.

Coming back to this, after ~2 months i feel i see things a bit more clear , even though i haven't played comp yet, there's definitely some people who play comp and are absolutely terrible and always blame others , especially the "dive tank" types lol...

 

 

That said i think overall the most fun i had yet was in QP open queue,  sometimes with no healers and we absolutely shredded the opposite team... turns out im pretty good with D.Va , but definitely im a team player,  i notice some D.Va players barely get assists, i always get tons of assists, cause i try playing her as a poke character,  seriously after almost killing a soldier or something chasing him down often isnt worth it and i just hope someone else finishes him off : p

 

 

That said the absolute most fun i had was in 2 control point capture,  i have no idea why thats a rotating mode that should be the main mode, the other modes drag on much too long often needlessly and the 2cp maps are so much better than the regular maps imo. 

 

but yeah, from my experience so far, with certain "comp" players you're better off not using support heroes because they will always blame *you* for their terrible positioning, lack of skill and general recklessness (from r/mercymains it seems only plat and up know how to properly focus and actually protect their support instead of using them as "heal bots") of course this wildly varies in unranked QP etc, half of the time you actually get a decent team so its still mostly fun, however in open queue you just have more freedom,  i usually go D Va, Soldier, Soujorn, Mei, Widow ... being a Mercy main also has the advantage i learned a lot by just following these guys, i know the Widow spots now etc, even without having played her much (i also have a new hobby as Mercy: Widow hunting xD)

 

Overall its a fun and easy game, often let down by the sheer inexperience of many players, which isnt their fault of course, rather the matchmakings fault, it just doesn't make sense to put a bunch of vets against mostly newcomers,  and that would obviously be easily avoidable by a more sane algorithm) 

[LogicalDrm]

My current problem in comp (support and tank are both low gold in last season) is that while players should have better skill, they still lack any tactical sense. DPS play flank heroes, but don't know how to flank. Then they blame support for not healing and tank for not making room. I was in one game, having bad pick in for map of control. Problem, I was being alone with one healer trying to break through 5 man wall with wrong pick. My team? Didn't flank to take out healers, but dying behind me. Then flaming me for it, not taking responsibility. I switched and again, was ganked by 5 man, this time from all sides (lighthouse on Ilios). My team? Hi-fiving and claiming I was still issue. And same on last map which we lost since our DPS were so bad in tactics. I know first map pick was bad, but didn't have any good options since DPS didn't flank and I was getting 5-man damage on me whole time.

 

The other time, also dps issue, opponent had Pharah. Which means one of us must pick hitscan, otherwise we are screwed. Healers, Moira and Brig. DPS? Junk and Sym. Me as tank? I could have picked Orisa, but then I can't really protect anyone unless map is really on one level. We were on Midtown which for me works best as Rein or Sigma. So atm I have big issue with players not understanding how tactical game sense works. My mechanical skills aren't enough to carry any team on gold...

Edited April 5, 2023 by LogicalDrm

[Mark Kaine]

37 minutes ago, LogicalDrm said:

still lack any tactical sense. DPS play flank heroes, but don't know how to flank. Then they blame support for not healing and tank for not making room

yeah, this is exactly what I'm talking about and why i think comp isnt a good idea *unless you have an actual good team that knows how to play*

 

this is especially noticeable as a healer imo... usually i tell the tank not to dive / push too much, sometimes they listen... 

 

Its definitely a skill issue too, tactical skill that is (plus most "dive tanks" really have no skill at all)

 

But the weird thing is, about half the time players actually do have the right sense for the game and its a lot of fun - on the other hand some characters "heroes" seem really OP, like soldier... you don't even need a healer in your team (if its a good player, or when Im Mercy i usually just pocket them, its an almost guaranteed win, one time it was just me and soldier at spawn point not letting anyone through... team at capture point was telling us to fall back but there was no way we were going to do that xD

 

But yeah,  i agree its mostly a game sense / tactical skill issue.  

 

37 minutes ago, LogicalDrm said:

Pharah

If Im D.Va im going after Phara (may or may not work but D.Va is natural pick against Phara, of course im often lacking the skill but im still trying) Or Widow, definitely super good against Phara - and against most tanks actually,  she can 1 shot Doom and Ram for example. 

 

A good Widow is another hero that seems OP (if the opposite team doesn't know how to deal with her) 

 

In the end its all a matchmaking issue,  because if teams are about equal regardless of skill its a lot of fun!

 

 

37 minutes ago, LogicalDrm said:

So atm I have big issue with players not understanding how tactical game sense works. My mechanical skills are enough to carry any team on gold...

yeah, that is the main issue im seeing too. I actually have a pretty good team, gold and silver players, but they started to get really sloppy,  not focusing etc, basically using me as a heal bot... which is frustrating to say the least, and im not going to play comp with them, if thats how it is, their loss (imho)

 

[LogicalDrm]

9 minutes ago, Mark Kaine said:

yeah, this is exactly what I'm talking about and why i think comp isnt a good idea *unless you have an actual good team that knows how to play*

I get 100% more frustrated playing QP. At least in comp, we don't get dps Moira or Lucio who doesn't heal at all that often.

 

9 minutes ago, Mark Kaine said:

yeah, that is the main issue im seeing too. I actually have a pretty good team, gold and silver players, but they started to get really sloppy,  not focusing etc, basically using me as a heal bot... which is frustrating to say the least, and im not going to play comp with them, if thats how it is, their loss (imho)

For got "n't" there. My mechanical skills have never been top notch, but I have good game sense and tactical thinking. And since my gaming background is from Battlefield series (9 years of it), flanking, being situational awareness, using sound cues... all beyond my aim and reactions.

[Mark Kaine]

19 minutes ago, LogicalDrm said:

I get 100% more frustrated playing QP. At least in comp, we don't get dps Moira or Lucio who doesn't heal at all that often.

Ok that's the kind of info i was looking for, interesting.

 

Also Moira is another thing that can really turn a match,  like they get a lot of kills *and* heal a lot, like ~15k... (usually less, but still good enough) but yeah, ive seen that too, Moiras who basically don't heal at all (tbf, Ive seen every support hero do that, especially Mercy players recently,  i *suppose* they're frustrated about the "nerf" but its still hilarious if they go around gun blazing while everyone in their team dies because no heals lmao)

 

 

19 minutes ago, LogicalDrm said:

For got "n't" there. My mechanical skills have never been top notch

That doesn't even change the point though,  for example as Mercy if you have a tank that pushes far too much, there's simply no way to get to them in time, its not a mechanical issue.  

 

Thats also what i meant about less skilled players they can still be *very* good if they have a sense for the game, and actually protect their support etc, it can actually pay off big time even against "better" players. i enjoy these kind of games the most, we maybe didn't have a lot of kills, but we played well as a team, you know,  that's the important thing imo!