Fluctuating/low +12V possibly causing low performance?

[matthewkeys]

I have been benchmarking my system and it seems as though my CPU is severely underperforming. After looking at HWiNFO, it seems that my +12V rail is fluctuating and sometimes seems to be lower than 5% (see attached image - columns are current, min, max, avg). My PSU is extremely old at this point, at least over 10 years. Is this +12V reading a possible cause for my underperforming CPU?

[--SID--]

+/- 5% is 12,6 - 11,4v

 

What's the brand and model of the PSU, CPU and GPU?

[matthewkeys]

39 minutes ago, --SID-- said:

+/- 5% is 12,6 - 11,4v

 

What's the brand and model of the PSU, CPU and GPU?

PSU is Corsair VS550, CPU is Ryzen 5 3600 and GPU is RTX 3060Ti

[mdk777]

Hard to say. The power supply feeds to the MB, which then powers the CPU, through it's voltage regulation...so which comes first the chicken or egg?  Does your MB have loose settings on VRM since day one, or has the VRM been worn down over time having to work overtime adjusting the wide spectrum from your PSU???

You will have to investigate your MB original settings to know.

If the VRM on the MB is in the process of giving up the ghost, a new PSU, will not likely compensate.

But again, there are planned ranges...I can't say that those you are reporting are not within those ranges.

[--SID--]

9 hours ago, matthewkeys said:

Corsair VS550

An old groupregulated VS550 is not sufficient for recent hardware, especially when it's the orange label VS550 like

 

[matthewkeys]

7 hours ago, mdk777 said:

Hard to say. The power supply feeds to the MB, which then powers the CPU, through it's voltage regulation...so which comes first the chicken or egg?  Does your MB have loose settings on VRM since day one, or has the VRM been worn down over time having to work overtime adjusting the wide spectrum from your PSU???

You will have to investigate your MB original settings to know.

If the VRM on the MB is in the process of giving up the ghost, a new PSU, will not likely compensate.

But again, there are planned ranges...I can't say that those you are reporting are not within those ranges.

How exactly would I check my VRM to see if it is an issue on my mobo?

[matthewkeys]

50 minutes ago, --SID-- said:

An old groupregulated VS550 is not sufficient for recent hardware, especially when it's the orange label VS550 like

 

Thank you, I think I will upgrade my PSU soon. Out of curiosity, what about it makes it not up to standard for recent hardware? And yes, it is that orange one that you posted, that is the exact one I have.

[--SID--]

3 hours ago, matthewkeys said:

Out of curiosity, what about it makes it not up to standard for recent hardware?

It's a group regulated unit. A groupregulated unit has a very bad voltage regulation on 5v and 12v.

[matthewkeys]

18 minutes ago, --SID-- said:

It's a group regulated unit. A groupregulated unit has a very bad voltage regulation on 5v and 12v.

What are the implications of that? Could that be a culprit for poor CPU performance?

[mdk777]

7 hours ago, matthewkeys said:

How exactly would I check my VRM to see if it is an issue on my mobo?

You can't easily.

The incidents of shutdown would just keep ramping up and eventually it would no longer boot.

 

But I am not convinced you are having that problem.

 

Have you checked your BIOS for a VMR setting?

here is a discussion on ASUS boards.

https://www.asus.com/support/FAQ/1036400/

Mine has one, but it is a higher end board(Gigibyte).

1. B550 AORUS PRO AC

Second, have you run RYZEN MASTER to optimize your voltages and PBO (precision Boost Overdrive)?

https://www.amd.com/en/technologies/ryzen-master

 

IF not download from AMD,  and select CURVE OPTIMIZE, and run the OPTIMIZATION 

takes about 40 minutes and will require several boots.

 

It will automatically set your BIOS to the best setting.

While it is running you can watch the temps and the voltage fluctuations in real time.

4 hours ago, matthewkeys said:

What are the implications of that? Could that be a culprit for poor CPU performance?

[mdk777]

4 hours ago, matthewkeys said:

What are the implications of that? Could that be a culprit for poor CPU performance?

As I mentioned, bad regulation will make the VRM on your MB work harder to do their job.

 

If you have been running the PSU for as many years as you have the MB, that stress can add up.

 

Better PSU voltage regulations means cleaner supply to the MB, that translates into better control of CPU.....BUT...only really if you have a quality MB to start with(regarding OC ability).

 

Re: 5 volt not used by CPU.

Important for HDD. 

 

Long story short, I buy the Best PSU made on gods earth, but it is not a magic bullet.

It is only one part of the chain of quality tools used to optimize your CPU.

 

Simply throwing a New PSU at your issue, may or may not have an affect. 

I certainly agree that starting with a quality PSU is important for a new build and eliminates the need to worry.

 

[matthewkeys]

4 hours ago, mdk777 said:

You can't easily.

The incidents of shutdown would just keep ramping up and eventually it would no longer boot.

 

But I am not convinced you are having that problem.

 

Have you checked your BIOS for a VMR setting?

here is a discussion on ASUS boards.

https://www.asus.com/support/FAQ/1036400/

Mine has one, but it is a higher end board(Gigibyte).

1. B550 AORUS PRO AC

Second, have you run RYZEN MASTER to optimize your voltages and PBO (precision Boost Overdrive)?

https://www.amd.com/en/technologies/ryzen-master

 

IF not download from AMD,  and select CURVE OPTIMIZE, and run the OPTIMIZATION 

takes about 40 minutes and will require several boots.

 

It will automatically set your BIOS to the best setting.

While it is running you can watch the temps and the voltage fluctuations in real time.

Can I do the curve optimize if I have a motherboard that does not support overclocking? I have an Asus Prime A320M-K, which does not support overclocking my CPU.

[mdk777]

1 hour ago, matthewkeys said:

Can I do the curve optimize if I have a motherboard that does not support overclocking?

Yeah, see there you go.

There is really very little you are going to achieve trying to get more performance out of your rig.

A big performance boost will come with new parts other than PSU.

 

 

When you say underperforming, I assume you are looking at tests comparing performance to others.

When I post a score, it is the best I have achieved, ….not average, and not stock.

Just saying, comparing to posted scores means little. What is their MB, what are their memory equality and  timings?....

 

If your rig is stable and not failing, Changing the PSU will not make your CPU perform better.

 

 

[matthewkeys]

10 hours ago, mdk777 said:

Yeah, see there you go.

There is really very little you are going to achieve trying to get more performance out of your rig.

A big performance boost will come with new parts other than PSU.

 

 

When you say underperforming, I assume you are looking at tests comparing performance to others.

When I post a score, it is the best I have achieved, ….not average, and not stock.

Just saying, comparing to posted scores means little. What is their MB, what are their memory equality and  timings?....

 

If your rig is stable and not failing, Changing the PSU will not make your CPU perform better.

 

 

Yeah I get that, but my issue is not just being slightly below what everyone else with the same specs has. My issue is that it is FAR below what the norm seems to be. Struggling to get even 50% GPU usage in games does not seem like a result of slightly slow RAM or a mobo that does not support overclocking. It seems like a fundamental issue within my system.

[mdk777]

On 2/3/2023 at 4:17 PM, matthewkeys said:

GPU is RTX 3060Ti

Sorry, but you are confused on how CPU and GPU use is related.

 

Your GPU usage in games will be determined not by the cpu, but by the settings in the game, the resolution of the screen, etc. etc.

 

I run  the cinbench 11 graphics test and my GPU usage is 60%.....because that is all the test requires.

If i run sniper elite 5 at full setting UHD monitor it runs at 100%

if i run at 1080p and low setting, back down to 30-60%

 

my cpu and system does not change, the load on the gpu changes.

 

If your gpu is limited by your CPU, it will result in slower frame rates at a given setting as compared to a faster cpu at those exact same setting. You are looking at the wrong test metric if you are looking at gpu utilization rates.

 

But go ahead and buy a new PSU and report back how it works!!!

 

If it makes a difference i will be happy to learn something new. 

6 hours ago, matthewkeys said:

truggling to get even 50% GPU usage in games does not seem like a result of slightly slow RAM or a mobo that does not support overclocking. It seems like a fundamental issue within my system.

 

[matthewkeys]

3 hours ago, mdk777 said:

Sorry, but you are confused on how CPU and GPU use is related.

 

Your GPU usage in games will be determined not by the cpu, but by the settings in the game, the resolution of the screen, etc. etc.

 

I run  the cinbench 11 graphics test and my GPU usage is 60%.....because that is all the test requires.

If i run sniper elite 5 at full setting UHD monitor it runs at 100%

if i run at 1080p and low setting, back down to 30-60%

 

my cpu and system does not change, the load on the gpu changes.

 

If your gpu is limited by your CPU, it will result in slower frame rates at a given setting as compared to a faster cpu at those exact same setting. You are looking at the wrong test metric if you are looking at gpu utilization rates.

 

But go ahead and buy a new PSU and report back how it works!!!

 

If it makes a difference i will be happy to learn something new. 

 

I am aware of how the use of CPU and GPU are related. The reason I made this post is not because I saw poor performance and thought "it must be the PSU". It was after days of troubleshooting and finding that my PSU seems to be weak. I have a Ryzen 5 3600, paired with a 3060Ti, which should not be bottlenecking at all. I know GPU usage will not always be close to 100%, but when my settings are at absolute max, and my fps is quite poor, but my GPU usage is at only 60%, and especially after comparing with people with the exact same specs, with the exact same in-game settings, and they get far higher frames with far higher GPU usage, I am obviously going to investigate.

[mdk777]

best of luck,

 

Seriously though, let me know if i turn out to be wrong. 

I would like to know if I am.

[matthewkeys]

10 minutes ago, mdk777 said:

best of luck,

 

Seriously though, let me know if i turn out to be wrong. 

I would like to know if I am.

Haha I will do so, thank you for all of your help!

[-rascal-]

On 2/5/2023 at 10:55 AM, matthewkeys said:

I am aware of how the use of CPU and GPU are related. The reason I made this post is not because I saw poor performance and thought "it must be the PSU". It was after days of troubleshooting and finding that my PSU seems to be weak. I have a Ryzen 5 3600, paired with a 3060Ti, which should not be bottlenecking at all. I know GPU usage will not always be close to 100%, but when my settings are at absolute max, and my fps is quite poor, but my GPU usage is at only 60%, and especially after comparing with people with the exact same specs, with the exact same in-game settings, and they get far higher frames with far higher GPU usage, I am obviously going to investigate.

 

Do you want to give us your COMPLETE / FULL system specs?
The FIRST thing people should have asked, and included in your thread starter, is full information about your system.

 

So we know so far...

• CPU -- Ryzen 3600
• Motherboard -- ASUS A320M-K
• GPU -- RTX 3060 Ti
• PSU -- (older revision) Corsair CV 550

What about:

• CPU Cooler?
• Windows 10 / 11?
• RAM brand + speed / model #?
• etc

 

Questions:

1. Since you have HWiNFO installed already, what are you CPU + GPU temperatures? Is your CPU / GPU thermal throttling?
2. What frequency is your CPU Core(s) running? You should be seeing ~3600 MHz, and up to ~4200 MHz
3. HWiNFO has a Yes/No section to indicate if you are Thermal Throttling, hitting Critical Temperature, Power Limit Exceeded, etc.
4. What frequency is your Memory (RAM) running at? Is it at DDR4-2133? Higher? Lower? Ryzen benefits with higher frequency memory.
5. Are you gaming(?) in Windowed Mode? Or are you using Full Screen?
6. What are you comparing your performance with? Video? Review? What game? What application?
7. What monitor resolution are you using? 1080p? 1440p? 4K?
8. Motherboard BIOS version?

[matthewkeys]

10 hours ago, -rascal- said:

 

Do you want to give us your COMPLETE / FULL system specs?
The FIRST thing people should have asked, and included in your thread starter, is full information about your system.

 

So we know so far...

• CPU -- Ryzen 3600
• Motherboard -- ASUS A320M-K
• GPU -- RTX 3060 Ti
• PSU -- (older revision) Corsair CV 550

What about:

• CPU Cooler?
• Windows 10 / 11?
• RAM brand + speed / model #?
• etc

 

Questions:

1. Since you have HWiNFO installed already, what are you CPU + GPU temperatures? Is your CPU / GPU thermal throttling?
2. What frequency is your CPU Core(s) running? You should be seeing ~3600 MHz, and up to ~4200 MHz
3. HWiNFO has a Yes/No section to indicate if you are Thermal Throttling, hitting Critical Temperature, Power Limit Exceeded, etc.
4. What frequency is your Memory (RAM) running at? Is it at DDR4-2133? Higher? Lower? Ryzen benefits with higher frequency memory.
5. Are you gaming(?) in Windowed Mode? Or are you using Full Screen?
6. What are you comparing your performance with? Video? Review? What game? What application?
7. What monitor resolution are you using? 1080p? 1440p? 4K?
8. Motherboard BIOS version?

1: GPu temperatures usually around 60C, CPU sometimes gets around 85C, usually around 75-80C. I know quite hot, but HWiNFO does not seem to indicate thermal throttling

2: CPU cores seem fine, always between the range you specified

3: Does not seem like thermal throttling is occurring

4: DDR4-2666, single channel 16GB stick, but I know that is not ideal so I ordered 3200-2x8GB sticks that will arrive soon and hopefully that will help

5: Always full screen

6: I usually compare my performance with video benchmarks of people on YouTube with the same specs as me, so far I've compared performance in Elden Ring, Warzone 2 and Witcher 3

7: 1080p

8: 6042

[mdk777]

Single channel memory is the killer. Problem solved....as I mentioned from start, not PSU voltage

ps make sure to check MB to split new memory into bank a and b. (not side by side in most MB)

 

Single channel memory spec by OEM on dual channel CPU is one of the most agregous sins!!

 

[-rascal-]

12 hours ago, matthewkeys said:

1: GPu temperatures usually around 60C, CPU sometimes gets around 85C, usually around 75-80C. I know quite hot, but HWiNFO does not seem to indicate thermal throttling

2: CPU cores seem fine, always between the range you specified

3: Does not seem like thermal throttling is occurring

4: DDR4-2666, single channel 16GB stick, but I know that is not ideal so I ordered 3200-2x8GB sticks that will arrive soon and hopefully that

will help

5: Always full screen

6: I usually compare my performance with video benchmarks of people on YouTube with the same specs as me, so far I've compared performance in Elden Ring, Warzone 2 and Witcher 3

7: 1080p

8: 6042

 

GPU temperature is fine.

CPU temperature is a little on the warmer side, but definitely not dangerous or thermal throttling high.

 

The elephant in the room is the single stick of DDR4-2666 memory.

 

Can you share a link to the YouTube video(s) you are using for comparison?