Creative X-FI SPDIF out timeout problem

[Delano.888]

Hello everyone! I'm kinda new here. My first real question at least!:

 

I have had a Creative X-FI Titanium for a long time now, but never used it. There is a problem that I cannot solve, so I switched to onboard a long time ago, but I guess I can try here, maybe someone can help me solve it!

 

I use a Onkyo receiver, with 5.1 jamo speakers. That all works great with my Cable, PS3, etc. So I don't think the problem is in the receiver or the speakers. Also, when I use onboard, everything works fine.

Now, onboard doesn't do on the fly 5.1 for gaming. I don't really know the terms, but I read that onboard DOES do 5.1 for movies, but not for games, I don't know why. It's a Asus RIVE btw.

I have it connected via an optical cable to my receiver. Never any problems.

 

Now, when I start using my soundcard. I can do 2 things: set speakers as default device, like it is in this picture:

http://i.imgur.com/5cnGBl7.png

Or set SPDIF out as default device.

Like it's set right now, everything works fine, but it's all stereo. No 5.1 whatsoever (because I use an optical cable)

 

When I select the SPDIF as default, everything works almost perfect, however, there is a startup/shutdown effect that seems to happen whenever there is no sound.

For instance, my pc outputs no sound, and I start playing any audio, I hear a slight crackle, and the sound starts. The beginning first second of the sound was never outputted.

Also, when the sounds stops and my pc turns silent, after about 5 second, the exact same crackle is there.

 

It get's really annoying! Because you miss most part of for instance mail notification sounds. Also the crackle just doesn't sound good.

 

Now again, onboard, with the same cable, everything sounds fine.

The problem is also not in the receiver, it outputs 5.1 just fine with PS3 (also optical cable btw)

I also switched cables just to test, but that didn't fix it.

 

Now what can I do? The problem really seems to lay in the soundcard, right?

Anybody any ideas?

[h264]

Now, when I start using my soundcard. I can do 2 things: set speakers as default device, like it is in this picture:

http://i.imgur.com/5cnGBl7.png

Or set SPDIF out as default device.

Like it's set right now, everything works fine, but it's all stereo. No 5.1 whatsoever (because I use an optical cable)

 

When I select the SPDIF as default, everything works almost perfect, however, there is a startup/shutdown effect that seems to happen whenever there is no sound.

For instance, my pc outputs no sound, and I start playing any audio, I hear a slight crackle, and the sound starts. The beginning first second of the sound was never outputted.

Also, when the sounds stops and my pc turns silent, after about 5 second, the exact same crackle is there.

 

It get's really annoying! Because you miss most part of for instance mail notification sounds. Also the crackle just doesn't sound good.

 

 

Now again, onboard, with the same cable, everything sounds fine.

The problem is also not in the receiver, it outputs 5.1 just fine with PS3 (also optical cable btw)

I also switched cables just to test, but that didn't fix it.

 

So your onboard lacks optical out?  If it has any sort of digital out you should be able to use that to output multiple channels to the receiver.  Also, the HDMI on your video card would do the trick if your receiver has an hdmi input(s).

 

That crackle is a KNOWN bug with Creative's drivers, as in I know because I heard my friend's fancy creative card do EXACTLY the same thing.

[Delano.888]

So your onboard lacks optical out?  If it has any sort of digital out you should be able to use that to output multiple channels to the receiver.  Also, the HDMI on your video card would do the trick if your receiver has an hdmi input(s).

 

That crackle is a KNOWN bug with Creative's drivers, as in I know because I heard my friend's fancy creative card do EXACTLY the same thing.

No my onboard does have optical out, and it works fine, but it does not support 5.1 for gaming, don't know why, but it's not included.

I have no HDMI input left on my receiver, also I think it should just work like it is right now, right?

 

Explanation about no 5.1 onboard:

 

http://www.avsforum.com/t/966518/evga-680-sli-built-in-sound-optical-output-cant-get-5-1-output

 

(that is the reason I bought the sound card)

[h264]

No my onboard does have optical out, and it works fine, but it does not support 5.1 for gaming, don't know why, but it's not included.

I have no HDMI input left on my receiver, also I think it should just work like it is right now, right?

 

Explanation about no 5.1 onboard:

 

http://www.avsforum.com/t/966518/evga-680-sli-built-in-sound-optical-output-cant-get-5-1-output

 

(that is the reason I bought the sound card)

 

Most of the time, you need to set the channels in the onboard driver settings menu.  the default is usually stereo.

 

>The only type of sound that will be output in surround sound through the optical cable in your current set up is Dolby Digital or DTS soundtracks from movies that are passed through to the receiver. Everything else, including games and the speaker test you tried will only be received in stereo.

 

right:

 

stereo in > stereo out

 

Dolby in > Dolby out

 

DTS in > DTS out

 

that's the point.  If the game is in stereo, it's in stereo, and that's all there is to it.

[Delano.888]

Most of the time, you need to set the channels in the onboard driver settings menu.  the default is usually stereo.

I know all that, but onboard sound does not carry 5.1 for gaming, via an optical cable. More explanation here:

http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/forum/259712-28-realtek-audio-optical-games

 

Also, I kinda want to use the soundcard I spend good money on.

 

The soundcard does have dolby live or something which allows 5.1 gaming trough optical.

Also, IT WORKS, 5.1 gaming through optical works, just fine on my soundcard. It's the crackling that is the problem.

[h264]

http://support.creative.com/kb/ShowArticle.aspx?sid=24669

 

well, google brings up the obvious creative support notice:

 

>A game's audio samples may have levels, or DC biases, that are unusually high. These samples can overload the X-Fi audio enhancement algorithms which result in output streams that clip, or exceed, the allowable output signal swing.

 

Creative's sound is fed through "audio enchancement algorithms" and it's being driven into clipping.  Poor design, poor result.

[Delano.888]

http://support.creative.com/kb/ShowArticle.aspx?sid=24669

 

well, google brings up the obvious creative support notice:

 

>A game's audio samples may have levels, or DC biases, that are unusually high. These samples can overload the X-Fi audio enhancement algorithms which result in output streams that clip, or exceed, the allowable output signal swing.

 

Creative's sound is fed through "audio enchancement algorithms" and it's being driven into clipping.  Poor design, poor result.

I bought this card because it was supposably one of the best sound cards which has optical. So, basically, I'm just out of luck, and have to buy a new soundcard that supports Dolby Live? But not a creative one I guess..

 

Or get a new receiver that supports this cable:

http://problemstosolve.com/wp-content/creative_3-4_cable_photo.jpg

But I really don't want to buy a new receiver, this one was expensive as hell. I just want 5.1 gaming via my optical cable! It does work now, but the crackling is horrible!

[Delano.888]

Just FYI: there is NO crackling EVER while using sound. It is ONLY when sound starts or stops. I actually just started thinking of having a really low sound continous on in the background 24/7 so that the crackling won't happen again because the output will always stay on. That is not really the best solution ever though, I think.

[silencerbob]

I know exactly your issue. 

SPDIF (optical out) does not actually process the audio signal..it just passes it thru to another device(which then decodes it) to actual sound via speakers of some sort.

 

I have a PC hooked up this way (SPDIF) to an amplifier which has the same "loss of the first second" issue.  Its because the sound that passes thru sometimes has "silent times" that doesnt have any audio, so you get the effect of  "stops" and "starts".  I have noticed this particularly on MP4 video files whereas on AVI video files i dont get this problem.  Its the way your amp recieves the sound data which is the issue.  If you go to your Sound settings in windows(not sure which version of Windows ur using), you can do the sound configuration test and make sure you have enabled only the options supported.  Run the tests and confirm which modes are supported. 

 

Playback -> choose your device -> Properties -> Supported formats

 

If these are set incorrectly you get problems sending the audio data to your amp.

[Delano.888]

I know exactly your issue. 

SPDIF (optical out) does not actually process the audio signal..it just passes it thru to another device(which then decodes it) to actual sound via speakers of some sort.

 

I have a PC hooked up this way (SPDIF) to an amplifier which has the same "loss of the first second" issue.  Its because the sound that passes thru sometimes has "silent times" that doesnt have any audio, so you get the effect of  "stops" and "starts".  I have noticed this particularly on MP4 video files whereas on AVI video files i dont get this problem.  Its the way your amp recieves the sound data which is the issue.  If you go to your Sound settings in windows(not sure which version of Windows ur using), you can do the sound configuration test and make sure you have enabled only the options supported.  Run the tests and confirm which modes are supported. 

 

Playback -> choose your device -> Properties -> Supported formats

 

If these are set incorrectly you get problems sending the audio data to your amp.

I did all the tests but not all of them make the crackle. It cannot be the amp right because the same cable and amp works fine when I use onboard sound (just not ingame, but still 5.1).

[silencerbob]

Games usually use whichever sound device is made 'default'. Make sure the Windows default is set to the correct device, as well as the game (if its possible to be changed ingame). Also sometimes your graphics card may be interfering.. Make sure in the control panel(nvidia or ati) that audio is disabled.

Also make sure ur amp is set to accept "best" or "highest" standard. On my Sony amp its called "RFD Auto".

You've probably done all this but I thought I'd put it all up there.

[Delano.888]

Also make sure ur amp is set to accept "best" or "highest" standard. On my Sony amp its called "RFD Auto".

 

Actually, I cannot find anything like that in my amplifier. It's an Onkyo TX-SR508. Does every amp have that setting?

[Delano.888]

I think we might be getting somewhere!

In my amp, I changed settings - audio adjust - reference level, from 0db to 15db.

Dat didn't fix the problem, but it made the crackle a lot less noticable.

Is there anything is this direction I can do to "fix" the problem? And by that I mean, if some setting makes it so that I don't hear it anymore, I'm good with that.

 

Edit: after a few days of working like this, it didn't really help, because it also lowered the volume, and when I turn that back up, the crackle goes up as well.

[Delano.888]

Maybe this can be moved to troubleshooting? I guess it fits better there.

[Delano.888]

Update, more info. This is strange!:

 

I guess nobody here knows the fix, so I was tired of hearing the crackle. So I changed my settings back to my onboard card, and I also disabled the Creative card in the sound settings.

But what happened, you will never believe. The problem was still there! Even with the creative soundcard completely deadened, and no cables plugged in it, it was still making the horrible crackle. So then I uninstalled all creative software, and now it is fixed.

So, the problem is 100% sure in the creative software. That sucks. I will contact creative again. Last time they said well just exchange it. But I always expected to be a software problem so I never did that. I wonder what they will say.

[Delano.888]

I contacted Creative about a week ago, and they still can't solve the problem. They admit it's likely a driver problem.

I returned it to the store (it was still in warranty), I will go on with onboard sound for now and will look for a new soundcard in the future.

[baberb]

I'm having the exact same issue, though there is not always a crackle, sometimes it pops when the audio comes on, sometimes it just comes on without pop but missing that first ~second of audio.  In my case I'm using the onboard Intel IDT Audio driver, SPDIF straight out of the Intel mobo.  Win 7 x64.  It's going via optical cable to a Samsung 5.1 receiver.

 

The 'problem' is with the receiver, and I don't think it would matter what brand receiver.  SPDIF is a digital format, so there must be some kind of handshaking that causes it to go to sleep.  I put 'problem' into quotes because I believe this is actually kind of a feature; think about it, if the receiver was powered on 100% of the time when there's no sound output, it'd probably be wasting power and heat across the transistors.  

 

I'd had all kinds of problems getting this working.  I was on a previous revision of the IDT audio driver, and I had this stupid audio utility it came with that had a fancy gui, I forget what it was called, but I removed all that and upgraded the driver, and it does work better.  Just let windows configure everything.  What would happen before is say I'm playing an mp3, and I stop, then try to play a new one, it would take a random 1-10secs to start playing; New driver it takes consistently about 1sec.  I believe this is unavoidable with SPDIF.

 

Try it with system sounds over spdif, like a tick sound when you open menus.  The receiver does not like those momentary sounds.

[Delano.888]

I'm having the exact same issue, though there is not always a crackle, sometimes it pops when the audio comes on, sometimes it just comes on without pop but missing that first ~second of audio.  In my case I'm using the onboard Intel IDT Audio driver, SPDIF straight out of the Intel mobo.  Win 7 x64.  It's going via optical cable to a Samsung 5.1 receiver.

 

The 'problem' is with the receiver, and I don't think it would matter what brand receiver.  SPDIF is a digital format, so there must be some kind of handshaking that causes it to go to sleep.  I put 'problem' into quotes because I believe this is actually kind of a feature; think about it, if the receiver was powered on 100% of the time when there's no sound output, it'd probably be wasting power and heat across the transistors.  

 

I'd had all kinds of problems getting this working.  I was on a previous revision of the IDT audio driver, and I had this stupid audio utility it came with that had a fancy gui, I forget what it was called, but I removed all that and upgraded the driver, and it does work better.  Just let windows configure everything.  What would happen before is say I'm playing an mp3, and I stop, then try to play a new one, it would take a random 1-10secs to start playing; New driver it takes consistently about 1sec.  I believe this is unavoidable with SPDIF.

 

Try it with system sounds over spdif, like a tick sound when you open menus.  The receiver does not like those momentary sounds.

By now I have actually returned the card to the store for warranty, and they couldn't replace it, so I even got my money back. I switched to on board spidf, and that works for now. Just no surround gaming but okay.