new & better GPU = less FPS, why?

[katka]

[my rig]

cpu: intel i5 8600K
mobo: gigabyte B360M-D3H
ram: 16 GB RAM 2660 mhz (in dual channel)

750W gold certified PSU

NVME kingston SSD
old gpu = gigabyte gtx 1080 8gb
new gpu = msi rx 6750 xt 12gb

 

userbenchmark did give me a better rating after the test: 125% (UFO) from my previous 97% (nuclear submarine)

BUT... overall I have less FPS in games than what I used to have, makes no sense..

for example

 

fps in csgo:

before (with gtx 1080) = 550-580 (same spot on same map, offline, no bots)

now (with rx 6750 xt) = 430-460 (same spot on same map, offline, no bots)

 

fps in vanguard:

before: 140

now: 105

 

so.. what's wrong? I dont understand

and Yes, I did use DDU for installing new card/drivers

 

[PriitM]

Ah, inter-generational feature problems. Could be the AMD feature set is dependent on newer supporting hardware for full performance. Not that the system itself is overall bad, you are still getting triple digit FPS... but perhaps you have to lower you expectations in regards to performance until you upgrade the rest of the system. Since RDNA2 has that SAM compatibility, perhaps time to try Ryzen?

 

Motherboard could use bios update to unlock newer communications, chipset could use driver update... there are options to try, but could be too much of a generational gap for proper communications between the parts...

 

 

[191x7]

Makes perfect sense. 

 

You had a card which your CPU bottlenecked a little. You switched to a card that is severely bottlenecked by the same CPU.

A 6750XT will enter lower power states when not fed properly (when the CPU can't prerender as many ferames as the GPU can render the GPU waits between frames thus having a lower load and thus not needing to run at peak power states for peak performance). What you get as a result - the GPU working in the range of 50-70% and switching between low power and high power states which causes frame drops and stutters.

 

The solution has two approaches:

- upgrading the monitor to 1440p or 4K - would result in higher GPU usage since on higher resolution the GPU can render less so it would be closer to what the CPU can provide.

- upgrading the platform to a stronger CPU which wouldn't bottleneck the 6750XT.

 

Small things which could help a tiny bit till you do an upgrade worthy of the 6750XT:

- InSpectre disabling the Spectre and Meltdown performance hogs

- Disabling the Ultra Low Power State ULPS

- Disabling MultiPlane Overlay MPO

- Using CPUBalance to better schedule the resources of that weak old 6-core CPU without HyperThreading.

[Blqckqut]

the 6750 xt is very new compared to the cpu, might be a cpu bottleneck since its old, as PriitM said, upgrade to Ryzen, i have a 6700 XT and run it with an Ryzen 7 5700X and it works phenomila, bascicaly handled everything i threw at it no issues, had 180 fps on max in 1440p in modern warfare 2019

[PriitM]

8 minutes ago, 191x7 said:

Makes perfect sense. 

 

You had a card which your CPU bottlenecked a little. You switched to a card that is severely bottlenecked by the same CPU.

A 6750XT will enter lower power states when not fed properly (when the CPU can't prerender as many ferames as the GPU can render the GPU waits between frames thus having a lower load and thus not needing to run at peak power states for peak performance). What you get as a result - the GPU working in the range of 50-70% and switching between low power and high power states which causes frame drops and stutters.

 

The solution has two approaches:

- upgrading the monitor to 1440p or 4K - would result in higher GPU usage since on higher resolution the GPU can render less so it would be closer to what the CPU can provide.

- upgrading the platform to a stronger CPU which wouldn't bottleneck the 6750XT.

 

Small things which could help a tiny bit till you do an upgrade worthy of the 6750XT:

- InSpectre disabling the Spectre and Meltdown performance hogs

- Disabling the Ultra Low Power State ULPS

- Disabling MultiPlane Overlay MPO

- Using CPUBalance to better schedule the resources of that weak old 6-core CPU without HyperThreading.

God how I hate the term "bottlenecking". Not because its bad term, but its use as a scapegoat for on hardware compatibility. Theres more to performance than just CPU, RAM or GPU. Theres firmware protocols, individual drivers, backwards compatibility etc etc. General rule of thumb so far has been: if the individual parts are within 2-3 generations, the compatibility (forward and backwards) support is still there, Any more than 3 and you run into such weird issues. Exceptions are high end components, they usually have more grunt to hold over more generations.
Id say, upgrade to a Ryzen 2 or 3 and sell the working mobo-cpu-gpu-ram as a combo. Guaranteed you get at least mobo-cpu money from it. and faster DDR4 (atleast 3200) for Ryzen is relatively cheap.

[jaslion]

So funnily enough if a gpu isnt used enough it will enter a lower performance power saving mode.

 

Since that 8600k was already holding back a gtx 1080 its holding the 6750xt back even more and if you hover around 50% useage that triggers amds low power mode. Can be disabled.

 

 

[jaslion]

2 minutes ago, PriitM said:

God how I hate the term "bottlenecking". Not because its bad term, but its use as a scapegoat for on hardware compatibility. Theres more to performance than just CPU, RAM or GPU. Theres firmware protocols, individual drivers, backwards compatibility etc etc. General rule of thumb so far has been: if the individual parts are within 2-3 generations, the compatibility (forward and backwards) support is still there, Any more than 3 and you run into such weird issues. Exceptions are high end components, they usually have more grunt to hold over more generations.
Id say, upgrade to a Ryzen 2 or 3 and sell the working mobo-cpu-gpu-ram as a combo. Guaranteed you get at least mobo-cpu money from it. and faster DDR4 (atleast 3200) for Ryzen is relatively cheap.

Its actually just running into a feature from amd to lower power consumption. If you turn it off the gpu will let the clockspeeds go nuts even at low useage.

 

Cpu is just holding it back that much so the issue with the 1080 already not going to max potential in the games listed was only made more prominent here.

 

Its a funny coincidence basically that they have the perfect concoction to make it happen

[PriitM]

5 minutes ago, jaslion said:

Its actually just running into a feature from amd to lower power consumption. If you turn it off the gpu will let the clockspeeds go nuts even at low useage.

 

Cpu is just holding it back that much so the issue with the 1080 already not going to max potential in the games listed was only made more prominent here.

 

Its a funny coincidence basically that they have the perfect concoction to make it happen

8th gen Intel should be plenty good for a regular 1080. Even an i5. But this is semantics at this point.

that power consumption thing is worth tech tip.

[katka]

44 minutes ago, PriitM said:

Ah, inter-generational feature problems. Could be the AMD feature set is dependent on newer supporting hardware for full performance. Not that the system itself is overall bad, you are still getting triple digit FPS... but perhaps you have to lower you expectations in regards to performance until you upgrade the rest of the system. Since RDNA2 has that SAM compatibility, perhaps time to try Ryzen?

 

Motherboard could use bios update to unlock newer communications, chipset could use driver update... there are options to try, but could be too much of a generational gap for proper communications between the parts...

 

 

what if I buy an i5 12400 (+mobo obviously)? they have better prices than ryzen, would it fix my fps problem?

or is it mandatory to choose ryzen?

[jaslion]

1 minute ago, PriitM said:

8th gen Intel should be plenty good for a regular 1080. Even an i5. But this is semantics at this point.

that power consumption thing is worth tech tip.

Actually. A 6 core i5 like the 8600 wasnt doin so hot even at the start due to lack of hyper threading and this became a lot more appearant the older it got.

 

Its why the 8700k and 9900k hold insane value as they are the only worthwhile chips on the platform now

[Blqckqut]

Just now, fruit bat said:

what if I buy an i5 12400 (+mobo obviously)? they have better prices than ryzen, would it fix my fps problem?

or is it mandatory to choose ryzen?

that should be good, here the price of a ryzen 7 5700x is cheaper than that model, with some performance increase, try and find one of those for the same price or lower, if not, that one should be good

[191x7]

2 minutes ago, fruit bat said:

what if I buy an i5 12400 (+mobo obviously)? they have better prices than ryzen, would it fix my fps problem?

or is it mandatory to choose ryzen?

Yeah, that would be good. 

[PriitM]

Just now, fruit bat said:

what if I buy an i5 12400 (+mobo obviously)? they have better prices than ryzen, would it fix my fps problem?

or is it mandatory to choose ryzen?

Would it fix your FPS? Good question. We have not even discussed if the 6750XT is faulty perhaps... but hardware closer in generations will most defiantly help to eliminate possible issues. IF they are cheaper than Ryzen, then sure.
Ryzen, as said, will unlock your SAM capabilities, but I think thats with 5000 series CPUs.
 

[podkall]

4 minutes ago, 191x7 said:

Yeah, that would be good. 

depends, isn't 5600 cheaper and similarly fast?

[191x7]

3 minutes ago, podkall said:

depends, isn't 5600 cheaper and similarly fast?

And locked in upgrade paths too.

Also, maybe the OP likes Intel?

[katka]

4 minutes ago, PriitM said:

Would it fix your FPS? Good question. We have not even discussed if the 6750XT is faulty perhaps... but hardware closer in generations will most defiantly help to eliminate possible issues. IF they are cheaper than Ryzen, then sure.
Ryzen, as said, will unlock your SAM capabilities, but I think thats with 5000 series CPUs.
 

well.. the gpu is brand new from the store (not from scalpers, second hand or etc)

it cant be faulty since userbenchmark test gives me high ratings, right? (125% new vs 97% old)

[Blqckqut]

Just now, 191x7 said:

And locked in upgrade paths too.

Also, maybe the OP likes Intel?

amd is way better recently in terms of anything relating to support

[katka]

2 minutes ago, 191x7 said:

And locked in upgrade paths too.

Also, maybe the OP likes Intel?

I dont mind if its ryzen, im just checking the prices.

I'd go ryzen all the way if it was cheaper but unfortunately it's not (at least in my country)

one more thing.. cpu benchmark shows ryzen 5600 is only 2% faster than 8600k so why would I 'upgrade' to that cpu?

[Blqckqut]

1 minute ago, fruit bat said:

well.. the gpu is brand new from the store (not from scalpers, second hand or etc)

it cant be faulty since userbenchmark test gives me high ratings, right? (125% new vs 97% old)

ive heard a lot of people saying u shouldnt trust userbenchmarks... do with that information what u want

[podkall]

Just now, 191x7 said:

And locked in upgrade paths too.

Also, maybe the OP likes Intel?

haven't thought about that, not everyone stays at the sweetspot

 

1 minute ago, fruit bat said:

it cant be faulty since userbenchmark test gives me high ratings, right? (125% new vs 97% old)

depends what kind of benchmark, userbenchmark is biased, according to techpowerup 6750XT should be 60% faster than 1080:

 

[YoungBlade]

Just now, fruit bat said:

I dont mind if its ryzen, im just checking the prices.

I'd go ryzen all the way if it was cheaper but unfortunately it's not

one more thing.. cpu benchmark shows ryzen 5600 is only 2% faster than 8600k so why would I 'upgrade' to that cpu?

The 5600 is WAY more than 2% faster, even if the 8600K in question can OC to 5GHz.

 

If you are using UserBenchmark for that comparison, stop doing that. Look into reputable review sites like TechPowerUp or Techspot and read reviews there with performance comparisons.

[podkall]

1 minute ago, Blqckout said:

amd is way better recently in terms of anything relating to support

and where did you hear that? GPUs are still hit and miss, and Ryzens have problems with certain RAM sticks and even Motherboard, either refusing to work or run DOCP

[Blqckqut]

1 minute ago, podkall said:

and where did you hear that? GPUs are still hit and miss, and Ryzens have problems with certain RAM sticks and even Motherboard, either refusing to work or run DOCP

i meant customer support if anything breaks, ive been on the amd side bc of that too, sure it can be faulty, but its less of a hassle when trying to get it replaced

[PriitM]

1 minute ago, fruit bat said:

well.. the gpu is brand new from the store (not from scalpers, second hand or etc)

it cant be faulty since userbenchmark test gives me high ratings, right? (125% new vs 97% old)

Well, you did not see real results, therefore the comparative performance graph is somewhat faulty after all.

 

Who ever said products cant be defective from the box, from a reputable retailer? They can be.

 

But still, upgrading to a newer supporting hardware will most likely help out. You would have had to do it anyway at some point.

[katka]

whats the best website to compare cpus in betweem them?