CPU cooling overkill

[GameFan]

So, I'm planning my build right now, and I'm not sure if I overdid it with the cooling.

 

The PC will have a Ryzen 7 7700X with a TDP of 105W and I chose an Arctic Liquid Freezer II 420 with a MaxTDP of 300W.

Is that unnecessary and what temps can I expect?

 

Thank you.

[ChrisLoudon]

19 minutes ago, GameFan said:

So, I'm planning my build right now, and I'm not sure if I overdid it with the cooling.

 

The PC will have a Ryzen 7 7700X with a TDP of 105W and I chose an Arctic Liquid Freezer II 420 with a MaxTDP of 300W.

Is that unnecessary and what temps can I expect?

 

Thank you.

Simple answer is yes, that is overkill but to be honest, there's no harm in over doing it as you now have a load of headroom if you want to OC or replace the CPU with something faster and has more cores in the future. From where you are right now, you could go all the way up to a Ryzen 9 5950X on the socket you've got and keep things nice and cool with that beefy 420 rad.

 

The ALF II 420 is also LG1700 ready (separate mounting kit I think) so this might be one core component of your build that comes along for the ride.

 

I can't comment on what temps to expect as I'm an Intel man for the time being but you'll be able to crank that 7700X up to 11 and have no issues with cooling. Best Google OC values, temps and voltages for the CPU and see what the rest of the community has to offer.

[SpecTre12345]

It's really not that unnecessary, as Ryzen 7000 series tends to run pretty hot. With a 360mm cooler the 7700X still seems to hit TJ Max and even beyond in heavy workkloads.

 

As far as temps go though, with a Noctua NH-U14S, the 7700X hits 94°C @ Stock settings and 96°C with PBO enabled. This is when running Blender. In gaming it's more timid, hitting 71°C @ Stock settings and 74°C with PBO enabled. 

 

In Cinebench R23, with a be quiet! Pure Loop 2 FX 360mm liquid cooler, and an hour of looping the multi-core test; it hits a peak temperature of 97°C, which is slightly above the 95°C TJMax.

 

I'd say the 420mm cooler really isn't that bad of an investment for AM5. Either way, you can expect stellar temps with it. 

[ChrisLoudon]

5 minutes ago, BiG StroOnZ said:

With a 360mm cooler the 7700X still seems to hit TJ Max and even beyond in heavy workkloads

Ooft!

 

And I thought my 9900k was a furnace. Even with 2 x 240 + 1 x 360rads things don't get much mast 80C when its really crunching.

[SpecTre12345]

8 minutes ago, ChrisLoudon said:

Ooft!

 

And I thought my 9900k was a furnace. Even with 2 x 240 + 1 x 360rads things don't get much mast 80C when its really crunching.

 

Yeah, these chips get pretty toasty. However, in real-world workloads, like in gaming, it should be mostly fine. But if you are under 100% load it can definitely get pretty hot.

 

That's not too bad, do you have a GPU in your loop though? As that could definitely affect overall cooling capacity. 

[ChrisLoudon]

9 minutes ago, BiG StroOnZ said:

That's not too bad, do you have a GPU in your loop though? As that could definitely affect overall cooling capacity. 

Yeh, a 3080ti which isn't know for its fostyness! lol.

 

I did just stumble across Argus Monitor though. Its not free but great to be able to control fans based on GPU temps or an average of CPU + GPU.

[SpecTre12345]

3 minutes ago, ChrisLoudon said:

Yeh, a 3080ti which isn't know for its fostyness! lol.

 

I did just stumble across Argus Monitor though. Its not free but great to be able to control fans based on GPU temps or an average of CPU + GPU.

 

Hah, indeed.

 

Looks like an interesting utility and from what I can see. They offer a free 30-day trial without application restrictions. So you can test to see if it works well with your setup. Pretty cool.

[GameFan]

25 minutes ago, BiG StroOnZ said:

It's really not that unnecessary, as Ryzen 7000 series tends to run pretty hot. With a 360mm cooler the 7700X still seems to hit TJ Max and even beyond in heavy workloads.

Does the CPU heat depend only on the TDP, or is there some other variable I'm not getting right?

 

If I understand TDP correctly, then it shouldn't be possible for a 300W cooler to struggle with 105W.

 

Is the TDP rating inaccurate in some way, and if so, how do I select a proper cooler?

Just so I can understand what I should look for, because right now, I go purely by the TDP, so I selected a 105W CPU and a cooler of 150W minimum. The 300W is there just for future upgradability and possible overclocking down the line.

[SpecTre12345]

4 minutes ago, GameFan said:

Does the CPU heat depend only on the TDP, or is there some other variable I'm not getting right?

 

If I understand TDP correctly, then it shouldn't be possible for a 300W cooler to struggle with 105W.

 

Is the TDP rating inaccurate in some way, and if so, how do I select a proper cooler?

Just so I can understand what I should look for, because right now, I go purely by the TDP, so I selected a 105W CPU and a cooler of 150W minimum. The 300W is there just for future upgradability and possible overclocking down the line.

 

TDP is generally a good determining factor of how much heat a CPU will produce, but it's definitely not fool proof. Broadly speaking, TDP is the maximum amount of heat a CPU can generate. 

 

However, here's where the issues arise by going solely by that TDP figure. The Noctua NH-U14S is supposedly capable of handling TDP's between 160-250W. From the review I mentioned earlier, the Noctua NH-U14S still hit 94°C under load in Blender at stock settings and then 96°C with PBO enabled. With PBO enabled the TDP should be closer to 170W, but the Noctua NH-U14S still hit 96°C. Meaning, even with a cooler with a supposed 250W cooling capacity, it still struggled.

 

Therefore, with a 300W cooler, you would expect it to struggle less. But there are no guarantees.

 

It's not that the TDP rating is inaccurate, it is that there are other variables that come into play too. As TDP ratings tend to be conservative.  

 

I think for future upgradability and overclocking, the Arctic Liquid Freezer II 420 makes sense. Most reviews show these chips, even with adequate cooling hitting the 95°C mark. Now AMD states this is fine, and is normal operation. However, It still obviously would be better to be under 95°C to hit higher clock speeds.  

[GameFan]

13 minutes ago, BiG StroOnZ said:

Most reviews show these chips, even with adequate cooling hitting the 95°C mark. 

And I'm over here thinking that a "300W" cooler should be hitting below 50°C. 

Apparently not.

Are these even coolable without some super high end custom water loop setup?

[SpecTre12345]

24 minutes ago, GameFan said:

And I'm over here thinking that a "300W" cooler should be hitting below 50°C. 

 

Apparently not.

 

Are these even coolable without some super high end custom water loop setup?

 

Yeah, it will definitely not be below 50°C. However, you should still see better results than those using 280mm and 360mm coolers. Which is what most reviews are using.

 

You don't need a custom loop to get good results. People who have these chips seem to be satisfied with 240mm and 360mm coolers. They are also undervolting, which can make a big difference.

 

Apparently, the main reason why they hit 95°C has to do with the thick IHS to ensure AM4 cooler compatibility. People like der8auer and JayzTwoCents delidded their chips, as well as lapped them. This seemed to make a huge difference in temps. Although, the common method to tame the heat is undervolting. 

[GameFan]

4 minutes ago, BiG StroOnZ said:

the common method to tame the heat is undervolting. 

Didn't even think of that. That would be a good idea, but then the question becomes if the performance hit is worth it and the price to performance would suffer as well. And I don't have the know how and equipment to delid the CPU, so that's out the door.

[SpecTre12345]

8 minutes ago, GameFan said:

Didn't even think of that. That would be a good idea, but then the question becomes if the performance hit is worth it and the price to performance would suffer as well. And I don't have the know how and equipment to delid the CPU, so that's out the door.

 

There is a slight performance hit from what people are showing from undervolting. However, the tradeoff is obviously better thermals. Most people find it's worth it, and you are looking at a small performance loss with the undervolt.

 

Luckily, der8auer is working on a delidding tool that is supposed to be pretty fool proof. However, you still run the risk of damaging the CPU. Obviously not something everyone will be comfortable with.

 

Regardless, I'd say with the Arctic Liquid Freezer II 420 and a slight undervolt you should be set. 

[WoodenMarker]

11 hours ago, GameFan said:

Does the CPU heat depend only on the TDP, or is there some other variable I'm not getting right?

How tdp is defined varies between manufacturers. It isn't reliable for comparison when measured differently.

Benchmarks are better but the tdp spec can be useful as a guideline if there's nothing else available.

10 hours ago, GameFan said:

And I'm over here thinking that a "300W" cooler should be hitting below 50°C. 

Apparently not.

Are these even coolable without some super high end custom water loop setup?

95c at load is by design and the CPU is being cooled properly.

I'm not sure where you're getting 50c from.

[GameFan]

2 hours ago, WoodenMarker said:

I'm not sure where you're getting 50c from.

I just threw that in there as a random temperature. The point is that I think something that can supposedly cool 300W shouldn't struggle this much with something rated at 105W.

 

2 hours ago, WoodenMarker said:

95c at load is by design and the CPU is being cooled properly.

So it doesn't throttle at 95°C?

[WoodenMarker]

52 minutes ago, GameFan said:

So it doesn't throttle at 95°C?

It does but it's designed to boost until it reaches 95c. There isn't any significant performance decrease from running up to it. 

[-rascal-]

2 hours ago, GameFan said:

I just threw that in there as a random temperature. The point is that I think something that can supposedly cool 300W shouldn't struggle this much with something rated at 105W.

 

So it doesn't throttle at 95°C?

 

 

Previous AMD (I guess and Intel) will boost until power or current limit is reached, whichever comes first.

This time, with Ryzen 7000 series, it will KEEP boosting and maxing it out until it reaches 95*C.

As soon as it goes 96*C+ then it will throttle the boost back...but as soon as it cools down to 94*C / 95*C, it will go full blast again.

 

If 95*C is too much for your liking, you can either:

• Enable ECO Mode,
• Set a lower temperature target (something lower than 95*C),
• Set a lower 'curve optimizer' or,
• Undervolt the CPU.

They are ALL power hungry chips, the Intel 13th Gen, looking at you i7-13700K, i9-13900K and 19300KS, are no different.

Those can all easily spike up to 100*C+.