Internet drops / slower than expected

[Auliz]

Hey all, 

So I've been having random "drops" in internet for roughly 5-20 minutes at random intervals. Sometimes it happens a few times a day, sometimes it doesn't happen for a day or two. I've reached out to my ISP, and they say things look fine on their end.. I'm a bit lost. 

 

I'm paying for: 1200 down / 35 up

When I run a test through the ISP app, it says I'm getting 1360 down / 41 up

 

Tests done on ISP modem / router network.

 

(HARDWIRED) Speedtest app on Windows says: 943 down / 41 up

For the above test, I'm on a Windows 11 computer that is hardwired directly to the router. 

 

(WIFI) Speedtest app on Mac says: 521 down / 41 up

For the above test, I'm on a Mac device running Monterey 12.5, that is connected via wifi.

 

(WIFI) Speedtest app on iPhone says: 500 down / 41 up

For the above test, I'm on an iPhone X, connected via wifi obviously. 

 

So I know that part of it may be the wifi card / chip in the different devices etc..  It just seems that cannot be the only issue especially with the drops in service.

All of these tests were done within ~10 feet of the router. If I go anywhere else in the house, the wifi numbers drop significantly. I'm using a Google Mesh system. 

Any help would be appreciated. Happy to provide any other details that may be needed. Might need some explanation on how to acquire them if they're not your everyday thing. Thanks.

Edited August 24, 2022 by Auliz

[CyberneticTitan]

Couple of thoughts. This is gonna be fairly technical not to daunt you with details but to give you enough crumbs to know where to search and to read up on next.

• When you refer to random "drops" I assume that you are referring to a loss in either connectivity to the router or internet access to the outside world. You first need to identify which type of performance degradation you are experiencing.
• To debug the first, namely loss in wireless connectivity, one of the easiest ways to do this is simply pinging the router and observing any abnormally high, and consistent ping times. However I would personally go a step beyond, and verify your observation of intermittent drops by setting up two devices in your network. Say your PC and your Macbook. Run iperf server on one of them, and initiate a packet transmission test on the other. This will continuously send data from the client to the server, and will allow you to see how fast the connection is between two devices on your network. Running this test over long periods of time will allow you to monitor connecitvity drops. You can read more about this type of test here: https://documentation.meraki.com/General_Administration/Tools_and_Troubleshooting/Troubleshooting_Client_Speed_using_iPerf
• To debug the second, you can do something similar to above, by running iperf continuously to some public iperf server or continuously running your Speedtest app and monitoring performance over time.
• Your hardwired test is expected. Your PC likely has a Gigabit network card, and will max out at 1Gbps or 1000Mbps. However there is some network overhead so that's why you're observing 943 Mbps.
• Running the network test on the ISP app presumably performs this on their modem and not your google mesh system, which is why you're seeing the 1360 down and 41 up.
• Over WiFi, your Google Mesh Wi-Fi system is only Wi-Fi 5 (AC), and in a two-antenna configuration the maximum throughput when using an 80 MHz channel over the 5GHz frequency is 866Mbps (It's marketed as AC1200 because it also adds the capacity of the 2.4GHz frequency 1200 ~ 866 + 300). However this is done over super ideal conditions (i.e. no network congestion, low interference, high transmission power, etc.) so you can be far away from that theoretical maximum. 500Mbps is not all that bad for a wireless device on Wi-Fi 5.

[Donut417]

1 hour ago, Auliz said:

'm paying for: 1200 down / 35 up

When I run a test through the ISP app, it says I'm getting 1360 down / 41 up

 

(HARDWIRED) Speedtest app on Windows says: 943 down / 41 up

For the above test, I'm on a Windows 11 computer that is hardwired directly to the router. 

 

The only reason you not getting full speed there is because your equipment probably only has 1Gbps ports, you need 2.5 Gbps or faster equipment to get the full speeds. Essentially your modem, router and computer would all need faster Ethernet ports. The router would also need a powerful enough SOC to push those speeds as well. 

 

1 hour ago, Auliz said:

WIFI) Speedtest app on Mac says: 521 down / 41 up

For the above test, I'm on a Mac device running Monterey 12.5, that is connected via wifi.

 

(WIFI) Speedtest app on iPhone says: 500 down / 41 up

For the above test, I'm on an iPhone X, connected via wifi obviously. 

 

You are corrected about the WIFi card playing a role. There are different WiFi standards, most notably WiFi 4,5,6and 6e. 4 for the most part should be dead by now. 5 is still probably heavily used, and I think theoretically tops out at 866 Mbps on 5Ghz, which you will NEVER see in the real world. So Id say those speeds are probably WIFi 5 and probably about as good as you can expect. 

 

1 hour ago, Auliz said:

All of these tests were done within ~10 feet of the router. If I go anywhere else in the house, the wifi numbers drop significantly. I'm using a Google Mesh system. 

The WiFi spectrum is unlicensed, which means anyone their mom, dad and brother can use the spectrum as long as they use the channels and power limits put in place by the government. 2.4 Ghz is heavily clogged with a lot of devices. Most notably bluetooth uses the spectrum and the magnetron in your Microwave produces 2.4 Ghz when in operation. But cordless phones, baby monitors and such devices use it as well. 2.4 Ghz has the best range and penetration power, but slower speeds, your neighbors network would interferer with yours. 5Ghz shares parts of its spectrum with radar, so if you have radar near where you live the DFS channels might be unavailable to you, or your router might not even include them. Furthermore 5Ghz has less range and penetration power. So if your home is built out of denser materials like concrete or brick, you might have issues.  That all being said, the Google mesh system should have a DEDICATED 5Ghz radio that communicates between the main router unit and the satellites, one thing you can try is to move the satellite units closer to see if that make any difference. I set these up in my sisters new house and found they did not perform as well as I would liked, but worked good enough for them. 

 

1 hour ago, Auliz said:

with the drops in service.

Does the internet drop on the Ethernet connected device? If not, then its likely issues with the WiFi, If yes, then it could be issues with the modem/gateway or with the wiring in your home or with the ISP. 

 

[Auliz]

53 minutes ago, CyberneticTitan said:

• Your hardwired test is expected. Your PC likely has a Gigabit network card, and will max out at 1Gbps or 1000Mbps. However there is some network overhead so that's why you're observing 943 Mbps.

I hadn't considered the port on my computer being only a 1-gig port, but just double checked, and it's a 2.5 gig port. I have a Gigabyte B660 Gaming X AX

 

53 minutes ago, CyberneticTitan said:

• When you refer to random "drops" I assume that you are referring to a loss in either connectivity to the router or internet access to the outside world. You first need to identify which type of performance degradation you are experiencing.
• To debug the first, namely loss in wireless connectivity, one of the easiest ways to do this is simply pinging the router and observing any abnormally high, and consistent ping times. However I would personally go a step beyond, and verify your observation of intermittent drops by setting up two devices in your network. Say your PC and your Macbook. Run iperf server on one of them, and initiate a packet transmission test on the other. This will continuously send data from the client to the server, and will allow you to see how fast the connection is between two devices on your network. Running this test over long periods of time will allow you to monitor connecitvity drops. You can read more about this type of test here: https://documentation.meraki.com/General_Administration/Tools_and_Troubleshooting/Troubleshooting_Client_Speed_using_iPerf
• To debug the second, you can do something similar to above, by running iperf continuously to some public iperf server or continuously running your Speedtest app and monitoring performance over time.

I appreciate the info, and I'll look into those tests. The "drops" are a loss in all internet. Ethernet goes down and all. I suspected it was an ISP issue but they are telling me it's an issue on my end. I'll see if I can't get some of these tests up and running to monitor some things and go back to them with proof of anything. 

 

53 minutes ago, CyberneticTitan said:

• Your hardwired test is expected. Your PC likely has a Gigabit network card, and will max out at 1Gbps or 1000Mbps. However there is some network overhead so that's why you're observing 943 Mbps.
• Running the network test on the ISP app presumably performs this on their modem and not your google mesh system, which is why you're seeing the 1360 down and 41 up.
• Over WiFi, your Google Mesh Wi-Fi system is only Wi-Fi 5 (AC), and in a two-antenna configuration the maximum throughput when using an 80 MHz channel over the 5GHz frequency is 866Mbps (It's marketed as AC1200 because it also adds the capacity of the 2.4GHz frequency 1200 ~ 866 + 300). However this is done over super ideal conditions (i.e. no network congestion, low interference, high transmission power, etc.) so you can be far away from that theoretical maximum. 500Mbps is not all that bad for a wireless device on Wi-Fi 5.

I had no idea they combined the capacity of both the frequencies in that, so that's an error on my part then. Also a clear oversight on my end about the 1-gig port on the PC. Seems like everything is working as intended speed wise.

 

 

Please see my other post in this thread about different router tests. Thanks!

[Auliz]

Google Mesh Wifi network speeds

 

(HARDWIRED) Speedtest app on Windows says: 909 down / 42 up

For the above test, I'm on a Windows 11 computer that is hardwired directly to the router. 

 

(WIFI) Speedtest app on Mac says: 279 down / 40 up

For the above test, I'm on a Mac device running Monterey 12.5, that is connected via wifi.

 

(WIFI) Speedtest app on iPhone says: 266 down / 38 up

For the above test, I'm on an iPhone X, connected via wifi obviously. 

 

Tests where done on exactly the same devices, in the same location.

[Auliz]

57 minutes ago, Donut417 said:

The only reason you not getting full speed there is because your equipment probably only has 1Gbps ports, you need 2.5 Gbps or faster equipment to get the full speeds. Essentially your modem, router and computer would all need faster Ethernet ports. The router would also need a powerful enough SOC to push those speeds as well. 

I double checked the port that my mobo has (Gigabyte B660 Gaming X AX) and it has a 2.5 port. From the looks of things, the problem on that speed is the other equipment in the line not being able to handle the above 1-gig speed. Totally makes sense. I didn't consider that. Thanks.

 

57 minutes ago, Donut417 said:

You are corrected about the WIFi card playing a role. There are different WiFi standards, most notably WiFi 4,5,6and 6e. 4 for the most part should be dead by now. 5 is still probably heavily used, and I think theoretically tops out at 866 Mbps on 5Ghz, which you will NEVER see in the real world. So Id say those speeds are probably WIFi 5 and probably about as good as you can expect. 

See my previous post about the different speeds on the Google Mesh system compared to the initial post with the ISP modem / router. The Google Mesh speeds are much less. 

 

57 minutes ago, Donut417 said:

Does the internet drop on the Ethernet connected device? If not, then its likely issues with the WiFi, If yes, then it could be issues with the modem/gateway or with the wiring in your home or with the ISP. 

Yes, everything drops. Ethernet and WiFi. Any suggestions on how to check the wiring in the home, apart from just running new cable? It would be a pretty serious undertaking to re-run the cable in this house. I'll have to get back with the ISP after I run those tests that CyberneticTitan had recommended. See what they say when I have some proof that it drops. Thanks!

[Donut417]

2 minutes ago, Auliz said:

Any suggestions on how to check the wiring in the home, apart from just running new cable?

 On a standard cable modem you go to the modems IP address in your browser and that can generally give you access to diagnostic info. Such as signal stats and logs. Depending on the ISP, you may or may not have access. Not sure how that works on a gateway(modem/router) device however. The signal has to be within a certain spec to work and over the course of a day your signal could change as much as 3dB from what I have read. So if your close to be out of spec, that could be the issue. 

 

If it is a signal issue, you will need to take the gateway provided by the ISP and go outside and hook up directly from the line coming to your home. Coax should be grounded outside, so look for the grounding block and unhook the cable from there, check the signal stats and work your way in, if possible. Id also recommend checking that any coax connections are tight. Another place to check is the logs and see if it records anything. You can compare you signals to here: https://www.dslreports.com/faq/16085

 

Another thing to check is to see if the ISP provided device is very hot. Gateways are notorious for overheating, especially the WIFi chipset, which is why these devices suck for WiFI. But if the SOC is getting too hot, it could be rebooting or slowing down. 

 

 

 

[Auliz]

11 hours ago, Donut417 said:

 Another thing to check is to see if the ISP provided device is very hot. Gateways are notorious for overheating, especially the WIFi chipset, which is why these devices suck for WiFI. But if the SOC is getting too hot, it could be rebooting or slowing down. 

I had a different modem that I was using when I experienced the majority of the drops. Got the ISP gateway to see if that fixed the problem. Don't plan on keeping this ISP gateway, just using it as a cheap troubleshooting device essentially. iirc, the other modem I have was getting pretty hot. Is there any way to fix that? Or just to get a new modem that's updated and can handle the speed properly?

[Donut417]

11 hours ago, Auliz said:

had a different modem that I was using when I experienced the majority of the drops. Got the ISP gateway to see if that fixed the problem.

If its happening on both Id say you got a problem. The only way to be sure is to A) see if you can access the diagnostic info and look at your signals. Or B) have a tech come out. Option A) is generally the cheapest as the ISP might charge you if the issue is with your homes wiring. 

 

11 hours ago, Auliz said:

have was getting pretty hot. Is there any way to fix that?

By too hot I mean you cant keep your hand on it. I had an old Dlink router I flashed with DDWRT and I literally couldn't stand touching it, I ended up using a Laptop cooler to keep it cool. Generally cable modems can handle higher temps, I just find with gateways with the SOC working for the modem and router parts and the WiFi chipset it gets hot and slows down or reboots, at least thats been my experience in the past. We haven't used Comcast supplied equipment in maybe 10 years. Mainly because we aint paying those scammers $14 a month for their gateway. 

 

11 hours ago, Auliz said:

Or just to get a new modem that's updated and can handle the speed properly?

Well if your current modem cant handle the speeds, then why pay for the speeds? If it were me Id make sure I had 1200 Mbps at, at least the router level, if not too my important devices. Or you could save money and downgrade your connection. I know Comcast my ISP offers 1200/35 and 900/35 I believe, so just in my way of thinking if I didnt want to replace all my equipment I would just go with the slightly slower plan. If your looking for a modem suggestion I heard the S33 is a pretty good one, its not the one I use, I have the CM1000v2, but that only has a 1 Gbps Ethernet port, we are on 300/10 service and wont upgrade unless Comcast decides to provide a free upgrade. 

[Auliz]

5 minutes ago, Donut417 said:

If its happening on both Id say you got a problem. The only way to be sure is to A) see if you can access the diagnostic info and look at your signals. Or B) have a tech come out. Option A) is generally the cheapest as the ISP might charge you if the issue is with your homes wiring.  

We haven't used Comcast supplied equipment in maybe 10 years. Mainly because we aint paying those scammers $14 a month for their gateway.

Yeah, that's the only reason I got the ISP provided gateway, was to see if the dropping also happened with their device. It's going back after this one month of rental.

 

6 minutes ago, Donut417 said:

Well if your current modem cant handle the speeds, then why pay for the speeds? If it were me Id make sure I had 1200 Mbps at, at least the router level, if not too my important devices. Or you could save money and downgrade your connection. I know Comcast my ISP offers 1200/35 and 900/35 I believe, so just in my way of thinking if I didnt want to replace all my equipment I would just go with the slightly slower plan. If your looking for a modem suggestion I heard the S33 is a pretty good one, its not the one I use, I have the CM1000v2, but that only has a 1 Gbps Ethernet port, we are on 300/10 service and wont upgrade unless Comcast decides to provide a free upgrade. 

Only updated the speeds when getting the ISP device, it was practically free to upgrade with the addition of the gateway. Figured might as well. Will more than likely drop down to below 1000 Mbps after this month. 

 

 

My only other concern is the mesh system. In the respective apps, both Google Mesh and now the NetGear Nighthawk Mesh, they report the signal is excellent. However, the tests of the speed are sitting anywhere from 150-250 Mbps down. Is that just because of the mesh making it a stronger but slower signal? It does go through a floor to get to one of the satellite points, but I was of the impression that is exactly what a mesh system was for.. a bigger square footage house. I could be totally off the mark here, but that's why I'm here asking for help from the folks that know what they're talking about! If I haven't said already, thank you for the help / advice. It's been greatly appreciated.

[Donut417]

 

2 minutes ago, Auliz said:

Is that just because of the mesh making it a stronger but slower signal?

My sister has the same mesh system and it performs kinda like yours. My guess its just a limitation of the system. You could have other sources of WiFI interference as well. A lot of things play in to the performance of WiFi. Which is why most important things should be connected to Ethernet. 

 

If you have an Android device handy WIFI analyzer is a good tool for looking at the spectrum to see if you have other networks interfering. It can also show signal strength stats and such. But if the satellite indicates a good signal, there is not much you can do. While Mesh is better than using WiFi extenders which are hot garbage, they still are not fool proof when it come to performance. 

 

 

[Alex Atkin UK]

3 hours ago, Auliz said:

the tests of the speed are sitting anywhere from 150-250 Mbps down. Is that just because of the mesh making it a stronger but slower signal?

More than likely yes.  The idea with mesh is you will get that speed more consistently, whereas without the node it would reduce even more as you got further away from the main node/AP.  This is why its a balancing act to put the next nearest node to the main one both in a place that both gets the best speed back to the main one, while also trying to get good coverage off it.  Also why additional nodes can be helpful in doing that, but it also depends if they are using a dedicated backhaul radio.

 

3 hours ago, Donut417 said:

While Mesh is better than using WiFi extenders which are hot garbage, they still are not fool proof when it come to performance.

To further confuse things, some cheaper Mesh systems are nothing more than managed extenders.  If it doesn't have a dedicated WiFi radio for backhaul, then its not going to perform any better than an extender other than more seamless roaming between units.

[Auliz]

Sounds like all of my equipment is running as it's expected to run, I just wasn't knowledgeable about it. The drop in service is something I'm going to monitor and take up with my ISP if it continues. Other than that, everyone has been very helpful and explained things in a way that makes sense to me. Thank you very much!