keyboards A Keyboard Thread: The Search for Low Profile TK 96%/100% with PBT Keycaps (macOS)

[NotJoeMan]

Howdy!

I am a web developer/agency owner, and I type a lot.  For the majority of the last 3 years since I started working for myself, I have used an Apple Magic Keyboard v1 (my work machine is a 2019 16" Intel MBP, waiting to upgrade to M2/M2 Pro), but eventually the connection started getting spotty and it was time to replace it.  After quite a bit of shopping for another low profile keyboard that I thought would be a good replacement, I bought a Logitech K780, for a lot of reasons.  All those reasons are still good experiences for me, but one thing I did not consider at the time of purchase was ABS plastic vs PBT plastic for the keycaps.  And about 6 months later, I have the telltale shiny, slippery feel on my primary keys, with my lesser used keys in pristine condition with the texture the board shipped with.  I am a fairly fast and accurate typer (100wpm @ 100% accuracy, 120wpm @ 99% accuracy), so I am well aware of the punishment I am inflicting on these little plastic keys.  Yet, my Corsair K70 MK2 RGB gaming keyboard is wearing beautifully after 5+ years of use and minimal shine, and also has ABS plastic keys (haven't replaced those yet, but will after I find a parts-only board to make a repair).

So, given my work keyboard is definitely going to see a lot more typing activity than my gaming keyboard, it's obvious that ABS is going to shine up for me every 6 months, and I really dislike the feeling when I'm working.  It almost feels greasy, even after wiping it down really well 

Some additional details that might help anyone that has some suggestions:
1. I don't care about height adjustability, I use little rubber wedges to create a negative tilt on my keyboard, so feet aren't necessary.  Many lowpro keyboards don't have them anyways.

2. The K780 has a little tray for devices, which I do use, but isn't strictly needed and definitely far less important to me than the feel of the keys.

3. I'd prefer wireless to keep my desk clean, but I have the option to use a wired keyboard if it checks enough quality boxes

4. I also use a Logitech MX Master 3S in grey and really like the lighter aesthetic it provides -- I have enough black electronics, which is one of the reasons I was drawn to the K780 with its lighter accents.  Lighter themed keyboards preferred.

5. Since I work with data pretty frequently, I consider a 10K layout necessary, but I'm not a stickler on 96% vs 100% layouts, and would generally prefer a more compact size to something with a ton of extra deck space.

I've looked at a lot of keyboards that I like, but when they meet the aesthetic and wireless capability, I find they have ABS keycaps.  I'm hoping someone out there has had the same issue as me and can give me some pointers on finding the right keyboard for my work desk.  My Corsair K70 MK2 RGB is still running great, though as I mentioned it needs some repair.  The keys feel great on top, but have started popping off because the stems have started breaking.  I already have a plan for PBT keycap replacements there, but couldn't find PBT keycap replacements for the Logitech K780, which led me down a road that's landed me here, asking my fellow hardware enthusiasts what do.

 

Oh, I also looked on eBay for a parts-only keyboard to get the keys, but they're sold for $5-6 per key individually and with 33 keys showing shine right now, I'm looking at $165 minimum to replace keys that are just going to wear again in the future even if the replacements I get are 100% perfect.  I like this keyboard, but not that much.

 

Thanks!

[GuiltySpark_]

I think its time you step up from the ubiquitous "gamer" brands into something a little nicer. Being a Mac user, Keychron is the probably going to be your best bet. They've got everything you could want, various sizes, low profile, standard height, wireless and wired, various switches with hotswappable as an option. Really can't go wrong for an introduction into "good" keyboards.

 

https://www.keychron.com/

[saintlouisbagels]

NuPhy Air75 might be the exact keyboard you're looking for.

I'm an Apple Magic Keyboard fanboy, and I find this just as enjoyable to use.

Although I use it strictly in wired mode since the wireless isn't as perfect as Apple's 1st party peripherals.

- Can be wired and wireless

- Gateron Low-Profile switches

- Thin PBT keycaps

- Mac keycaps

 

Edit: Crap, just realized you're asking for a 100% keyboard.

Maybe consider a separate keypad? I use a Leopold FC210TP sometimes.

 

[NotJoeMan]

31 minutes ago, saint_louis_bagels said:

Edit: Crap, just realized you're asking for a 100% keyboard.

Maybe consider a separate keypad? I use a Leopold FC210TP sometimes.

 

I started looking for separate keypads just in case the best suggestions are TKL -- I'm realistic about what I'm asking for, and understand I'm looking at a steep investment to get exactly what I need.  Then again, I'll spend 6 to 10 hours each day on this keyboard for years to come, and it's for business, so the return will happen on the first project I deliver.

 

 

31 minutes ago, saint_louis_bagels said:

NuPhy Air75 might be the exact keyboard you're looking for.

I'm an Apple Magic Keyboard fanboy, and I find this just as enjoyable to use.

Although I use it strictly in wired mode since the wireless isn't as perfect as Apple's 1st party peripherals.

- Can be wired and wireless

- Gateron Low-Profile switches

- Thin PBT keycaps

- Mac keycaps

I remember seeing this review but for some reason didn't retain it in my head when considering options.  I don't use the fn key all that much so moving it to the right side is appealing (one wish I have for this K780, it's reversed).  I also really like the idea of getting another set of browns, which is what I have on my K70.  I try not to type (pen and paper for notes) during video calls so noise isn't a big deal as I also work in my own space without worrying about bothering others.

 

49 minutes ago, GuiltySpark_ said:

Really can't go wrong for an introduction into "good" keyboards.

 

https://www.keychron.com/

I found this TK board, but they're out of the brown switches for now https://www.keychron.com/collections/low-profile-keyboard-collection/products/keychron-k5-ultra-slim-wireless-mechanical-keyboard?variant=39559178682457.  Good suggestion, though... and just as I got sad about that one, I saw they have a K5 SE model with browns available: https://www.keychron.com/collections/low-profile-keyboard-collection/products/keychron-k5-se-ultra-slim-wireless-mechanical-keyboard?variant=40054332784729.  Very compelling for the price ($75 USD), though the K5 has all-aluminum vs K5 SE with aluminum top deck and plastic bottom case.  I don't think I care about that, though.  The K5 SE adds hot swappable switches, something the NuPhy Air75 doesn't have, though the NuPhy board has an optional folio thing I can use to retain my device stand (I have an iPad, iPhone, and Android device propped up right now lol).  The Air75 does look a little more "premium", and has a slightly different aesthetic.  I think the key shape on the Air75 might edge it out over the K5 SE.

Quality responses LTT forums, I'm glad I came to you

I have some serious thinking to do... still open for other suggestions if anyone has them, though!

Edited July 14, 2022 by NotJoeMan

[rikitikitavi]

A bit of a background. I type a lot and similarly have used my beloved Apple Magic Wireless w/NumPad for years (thinness, short button travel, aesthetics of course). Didn't like mechanicals as daily drivers for thickness, tilt and therefore wrist position at rest. Last year I have finally decided to go split ergo.

 

- Kinesis Advantage 2, new Advantage 360 (Pro for wireless)

- ZSA Moonlander

 

I've got Adv2 and Moonlander. Ergonomics of both solve (a bit differently) my issues with the thickness, tilt and compromised wrist position of mech kbs.

Moreover, the layout makes the numpad island unnecessary. Thumbs have more buttons.

 

Both have customizable firmware. Kinesis has proprietary with 2 layers and macros. ZSA uses a fork of QMK, that allows for much more customization and 32 layers (afaik), macros, and being able to separately map button tap, double tap and hold for different functionality (or you can just use the defaults and not care).

ZSA also uses hotswap board and is more adjustable overall (rivalled by 360). Both by default have Numpad under your right home row, and given the columnar layout - it feels natural.

 

Basically I got spoiled so much by these kbs that I cringe every time I have to type on a regular staggered one. You have to twist your wrist, or take it away from the home row, or use your thumbs only for the spacebar and a couple of modifiers... pfff... plebeians... how do you even type 

Apple's short throw buttons are the only thing I miss.

 

Check out Ben Vallack (https://www.youtube.com/c/BenVallack) for ZSA Moonlander and other minimal split solutions.

Kinesis Advantage series has been around for 20ys so there is a big community and a ton of information.

 

I highly suggest you check out these three (with 360) kbs, and also google numerous DIY split ergo designs that are available. Typing has never been the same.

[NotJoeMan]

On 7/14/2022 at 1:57 PM, rikitikitavi said:

- Kinesis Advantage 2, new Advantage 360 (Pro for wireless)

- ZSA Moonlander

Man, those are chunky.  I guess I should have expected at least one ergo-evangelist ITT, but I definitely haven't considered how far keyboard tech has come since my last peek at ergo/split keyboards.  I'm not terribly excited about customization for my work keyboard, but rather the experience.  I have a Herman Miller Aeron (C) chair, and I'm basically looking for a keyboard to match.  If I were to try an ergo/split keyboard in person, that might change my opinion. I see that Kinesis offers a 60 day money back guarantee... tempting considering there's not really a retail store that has these in stock.  I have a Microcenter 15 minutes away but their ergo options are limited to Logitech K860, Microsoft Ergo, and some Cherry branded options, all of which are the "old" style ergo that I'm familiar with.

Honestly, I think I just need to test drive a few.  I really like the size of the NuPhy Air 75 and COULD live with TKL, but the Keychron boards are speaking my language in terms of cost and design.  I will probably go for the Keychron board first, followed by NuPhy, and if I'm feeling like really ballin outta control I'll spring for something like a Kinesis board.

All good stuff!

[NotJoeMan]

I know this thread is old, but I placed my order yesterday for the Nuphy Air 75 with Gateron Brown switches, and a set of the Twilight keycaps.  In case I do happen to wear through these, I'd at least like double the time before I have to spend more money again on this specific board.

Also, since it's relevant to the purchase, I reached out to Logitech today, now that I have a replacement on the way.  I let them know that I wasn't happy with the wear of the keycaps due to my normal use apparently exceeding their ability to remain usable (I can't find the guide keys anymore lol).  They are sending me a new board, since I purchased the K780 11 months ago (December 7, 2021).  I guess I could share the pics I took to show them the wear ITT if y'all are interested, but they're just pics of shiny keys on a keyboard.  I did wear them down pretty hard, though.  I'm going to use the replacement they're sending me as a travel/outside keyboard -- I absolutely love the device stand tray component to the K780 and will use it with my iPad and a couple of smartphones (business phone & personal phone) for taking notes while watching videos, general note taking, communicating, primarily done outside -- so I don't have to unhook and carry my 16" 2019 MBP every time I want to enjoy the weather but get some things done.

 

I'll probably update again in a few months when I have put enough hours on the Nuphy board to know if wear will be an issue or not.  This will also be my first spin on Gateron switches, but I am expecting a comparable experience to Cherry Browns. I also read that the Gateron switches are a tad quieter, which I'm definitely interested in because I do take notes during business calls and it would be nice to not have to mute every time I do that.

Thanks everyone for the suggestions!

[person123456789]

On 7/14/2022 at 4:37 AM, NotJoeMan said:

Howdy!

I am a web developer/agency owner, and I type a lot.  For the majority of the last 3 years since I started working for myself, I have used an Apple Magic Keyboard v1 (my work machine is a 2019 16" Intel MBP, waiting to upgrade to M2/M2 Pro), but eventually the connection started getting spotty and it was time to replace it.  After quite a bit of shopping for another low profile keyboard that I thought would be a good replacement, I bought a Logitech K780, for a lot of reasons.  All those reasons are still good experiences for me, but one thing I did not consider at the time of purchase was ABS plastic vs PBT plastic for the keycaps.  And about 6 months later, I have the telltale shiny, slippery feel on my primary keys, with my lesser used keys in pristine condition with the texture the board shipped with.  I am a fairly fast and accurate typer (100wpm @ 100% accuracy, 120wpm @ 99% accuracy), so I am well aware of the punishment I am inflicting on these little plastic keys.  Yet, my Corsair K70 MK2 RGB gaming keyboard is wearing beautifully after 5+ years of use and minimal shine, and also has ABS plastic keys (haven't replaced those yet, but will after I find a parts-only board to make a repair).

So, given my work keyboard is definitely going to see a lot more typing activity than my gaming keyboard, it's obvious that ABS is going to shine up for me every 6 months, and I really dislike the feeling when I'm working.  It almost feels greasy, even after wiping it down really well 

Some additional details that might help anyone that has some suggestions:
1. I don't care about height adjustability, I use little rubber wedges to create a negative tilt on my keyboard, so feet aren't necessary.  Many lowpro keyboards don't have them anyways.

2. The K780 has a little tray for devices, which I do use, but isn't strictly needed and definitely far less important to me than the feel of the keys.

3. I'd prefer wireless to keep my desk clean, but I have the option to use a wired keyboard if it checks enough quality boxes

4. I also use a Logitech MX Master 3S in grey and really like the lighter aesthetic it provides -- I have enough black electronics, which is one of the reasons I was drawn to the K780 with its lighter accents.  Lighter themed keyboards preferred.

5. Since I work with data pretty frequently, I consider a 10K layout necessary, but I'm not a stickler on 96% vs 100% layouts, and would generally prefer a more compact size to something with a ton of extra deck space.

I've looked at a lot of keyboards that I like, but when they meet the aesthetic and wireless capability, I find they have ABS keycaps.  I'm hoping someone out there has had the same issue as me and can give me some pointers on finding the right keyboard for my work desk.  My Corsair K70 MK2 RGB is still running great, though as I mentioned it needs some repair.  The keys feel great on top, but have started popping off because the stems have started breaking.  I already have a plan for PBT keycap replacements there, but couldn't find PBT keycap replacements for the Logitech K780, which led me down a road that's landed me here, asking my fellow hardware enthusiasts what do.

 

Oh, I also looked on eBay for a parts-only keyboard to get the keys, but they're sold for $5-6 per key individually and with 33 keys showing shine right now, I'm looking at $165 minimum to replace keys that are just going to wear again in the future even if the replacements I get are 100% perfect.  I like this keyboard, but not that much.

 

Thanks!

keychron k5

[GuiltySpark_]

3 minutes ago, person123456789 said:

keychron k5

Might be useful to read the thread first.

[person123456789]

31 minutes ago, GuiltySpark_ said:

Might be useful to read the thread first.

i noticed my error right after i sent it