Ram compatibility, rank?

[Rathe90]

Hello,

 

I'm looking at this memory [ https://pcpartpicker.com/product/msH8TW/gskill-trident-z-royal-32-gb-2-x-16-gb-ddr4-4000-cl18-memory-f4-4000c18d-32gtrg ] 

G Skill Trident Z Royal - 2x16GB 4000 CL18

 

Here is my parts list.

https://pcpartpicker.com/user/Rathe90/saved/zttNzy

 

I'm wondering if the memory is compatible and will run at 4000 and if anyone knows if it is dual or single rank? The only information I can find from G Skill is that they 'recommend the Z460 motherboard' - but that is not a 12th gen compatible chipset - right? I don't need or want to spend the money on Z690, I think B660 is fine for my use (no OC needed). I have no idea of its rank. 

 

Any feedback on the memory or parts list?

 

Thanks!

 

[RONOTHAN##]

4 minutes ago, Rathe90 said:

I think B660 is fine for my use (no OC needed)

If you don't need to OC, save your money and get a 12700 instead, it's $50 cheaper and performance is very similar (within 5%). 

 

Also I'd get a dual tower cooler instead of the NH-U14S. The Scythe Fuma 2 Rev. B is cheaper and will perform better while still being very quiet. I'd probably also go for a cheaper SSD (you won't notice a difference between Gen 3 and Gen 4 unless you're doing something that specifically needs it), and go for cheaper fans (if I'm spending $30 on a fan I'd expect them to be Noctua). 

 

Anyway, on to the RAM.

•  Will it work on your board? 
  • If it doesn't POST I would be shocked. Whether the XMP will work is a different story. Gigabyte's DDR4 memory topology on LGA 1700 is pretty terrible, in Gear 1 (where you want to be running for a gaming system, or realistically with anything less than 4400MHz RAM) the upper limit that you could hope for is 3600MHz with proper tuning (at least on their Z690 boards, though I doubt they've revised their memory topology significantly on the B660 boards). That's not even considering how the locked Alder Lake SKUs don't have proper VCCSA voltage control, so hitting that is even harder because you can't overvolt the memory controller. Realistically, the performance difference between running at 3600MHz CL18 and 4000MHz CL18 isn't that big anyway, so I wouldn't worry too much about it, but I'd try to save some money on the RAM kit and get something a little more practical. 
  • Tl;Dr: Yes it'll work, but it probably won't work at 4000. 
• Is it Single or Dual rank?
  • There's not really a way to tell. There are only 3 ways to tell if something is single rank or dual rank:
    • If it's a 32GB DIMM, it's dual rank, since there's no way to make one of those DIMMs single rank on DDR4 without going into buffered DIMMs. 
    • If it's an 8GB DIMM that you bought today, it's single rank. It's technically possible for it to be dual rank, but the likelihood of that happening is very small (I'm pretty sure all the 4Gb memory ICs needed to make dual rank 8GB DIMMs have been discontinued, but don't quote me on that)
    • If it's a memory bin that's dedicated to be a single memory chip (I.E. 3200MHz CL14 is dedicated to be Samsung B die, and since B die is an 8Gb memory IC, a 16GB memory stick will be dual rank). 
  • That kit is none of those options. 4000MHz CL18-22-22-42 is not a particularly good memory bin from G.Skill (their 4000MHz CL19 bin is actually better than their 4000CL18 bin and some of their 4400CL19 bins) since there are a variety of memory that can do that without much difficulty (Samsung B die, Samsung D die, Hynix DJR, Micron Rev. B 16Gb, Micron Rev. E 8Gb, etc.), including both 16Gb and 8Gb memory ICs, meaning it can be single or dual rank. I'd assume that if you buy a stick today where it could go either way, it'll probably be single rank since it is cheaper to produce (less parts needed), but it's not a guarantee. 

IMO, that kit is $40 too expensive for what it offers. There's kits like these where they are guaranteed to be dual rank for less money, and their Samsung B die kits (which in the 2x16GB variety are guaranteed to be dual rank) for the same price as well (even less if you're willing to buy 2 2x8GB kits). If you want to spend a lot on RAM, get the OLOy kit linked since it will be dual rank and have an XMP that will work, otherwise go for a 3200MHz CL16 kit that you find aesthetically pleasing for the $100-130 range. 

[Somerandomtechyboi]

https://pcpartpicker.com/list/JJR3Rv

Just a bunch of cost cutting on garbage

 

You can get a 1000w supernova gt for 140$ if you want for whatever reason

 

Ofc cut costs on aesthetics and useless crap like gen4 ssd, even upgraded the board to a z690 since it was the same price, if you insist on gen4 theres gammix s70 blades going around 120$ while delivering similar performance to a 980 pro

 

 

3 choices for rams

 

the tridentz royals you picked are remarkably cheap for what they are (binned b die kits), 180$ aint bad for good bin b die. Best ran at gear 1 (~4000-4200 depending on imc) at 1.65-1.75v (1.65v reccomended due to cooling limits and imc degradation concerns over 1.7v), dual rank dont clock high so dont expect much more than 4200. You should be able to acheive 4000 cl14/13 depending on how much volt you wanna crank into em like 13-14-14 or straight 14s, lower than 1.6v and dont bother considering these at all

 

4000 cl18 ripjaws v is most likely micron rev 16gbit rev b so best ran at gear 2 as fast as possible freq wise (though expect at most 5000 as even the highest bin kits are only reaching 5200 and thats with horrifically bad timings, more realistic to expect ~4800mhz though at cl18/17), also best ran at 1.6-1.7v though to get 1.7v to run you need ~800mv vttddr and you also need really good cooling so i advise sticking ~1.6v instead. These may also be able to come with b die but thats unlikely judging by the timings

 

The 3600 cl18 tforce is if you prefer to not f around in ram oc and just run stock

 

Ram oc is mostly for fun so maybe youll get a 5 or at most 10% performance increase out of ludicrous oc rams but youll prob not notice it other than in really ram heavy workloads that rely on ram speed

[Rathe90]

1 hour ago, RONOTHAN## said:

If you don't need to OC, save your money and get a 12700 instead, it's $50 cheaper and performance is very similar (within 5%). 

 

Also I'd get a dual tower cooler instead of the NH-U14S. The Scythe Fuma 2 Rev. B is cheaper and will perform better while still being very quiet. I'd probably also go for a cheaper SSD (you won't notice a difference between Gen 3 and Gen 4 unless you're doing something that specifically needs it), and go for cheaper fans (if I'm spending $30 on a fan I'd expect them to be Noctua). 

 

Anyway, on to the RAM.

•  Will it work on your board? 
  • If it doesn't POST I would be shocked. Whether the XMP will work is a different story. Gigabyte's DDR4 memory topology on LGA 1700 is pretty terrible, in Gear 1 (where you want to be running for a gaming system, or realistically with anything less than 4400MHz RAM) the upper limit that you could hope for is 3600MHz with proper tuning (at least on their Z690 boards, though I doubt they've revised their memory topology significantly on the B660 boards). That's not even considering how the locked Alder Lake SKUs don't have proper VCCSA voltage control, so hitting that is even harder because you can't overvolt the memory controller. Realistically, the performance difference between running at 3600MHz CL18 and 4000MHz CL18 isn't that big anyway, so I wouldn't worry too much about it, but I'd try to save some money on the RAM kit and get something a little more practical. 
  • Tl;Dr: Yes it'll work, but it probably won't work at 4000. 
• Is it Single or Dual rank?
  • There's not really a way to tell. There are only 3 ways to tell if something is single rank or dual rank:
    • If it's a 32GB DIMM, it's dual rank, since there's no way to make one of those DIMMs single rank on DDR4 without going into buffered DIMMs. 
    • If it's an 8GB DIMM that you bought today, it's single rank. It's technically possible for it to be dual rank, but the likelihood of that happening is very small (I'm pretty sure all the 4Gb memory ICs needed to make dual rank 8GB DIMMs have been discontinued, but don't quote me on that)
    • If it's a memory bin that's dedicated to be a single memory chip (I.E. 3200MHz CL14 is dedicated to be Samsung B die, and since B die is an 8Gb memory IC, a 16GB memory stick will be dual rank). 
  • That kit is none of those options. 4000MHz CL18-22-22-42 is not a particularly good memory bin from G.Skill (their 4000MHz CL19 bin is actually better than their 4000CL18 bin and some of their 4400CL19 bins) since there are a variety of memory that can do that without much difficulty (Samsung B die, Samsung D die, Hynix DJR, Micron Rev. B 16Gb, Micron Rev. E 8Gb, etc.), including both 16Gb and 8Gb memory ICs, meaning it can be single or dual rank. I'd assume that if you buy a stick today where it could go either way, it'll probably be single rank since it is cheaper to produce (less parts needed), but it's not a guarantee. 

IMO, that kit is $40 too expensive for what it offers. There's kits like these where they are guaranteed to be dual rank for less money, and their Samsung B die kits (which in the 2x16GB variety are guaranteed to be dual rank) for the same price as well (even less if you're willing to buy 2 2x8GB kits). If you want to spend a lot on RAM, get the OLOy kit linked since it will be dual rank and have an XMP that will work, otherwise go for a 3200MHz CL16 kit that you find aesthetically pleasing for the $100-130 range. 

Thank you for your detailed reply. I will look at the other RAM options and consider changing kits. I was choosing the single tower cooler with hopes of showing off the gold on the Ram kits (lol) but the OLOy you linked also look good. I will look at the coolers you listed and see if the visibility is good for the memory. I think the Noctua D15S also has a good viewing angle for ram (single fan, dual tower). I goofed and didn't save the parts list quite right - everything is correct except I was actually going a little cheaper with an Asus prime motherboard and probably a wifi card later (if needed). Parts list with Asus Motherboard: [ https://pcpartpicker.com/user/Rathe90/saved/zttNzy ]

 

In terms of CPU, I'm new and don't understand all the finer points, wouldn't I lose 1.5/0.1GHz by going to the 12700? CPU compariso: https://pcpartpicker.com/products/compare/ZbddnQ,XVRYcf/

 

The SSD was chosen for speed and ratings, yes, but also TBW - which it is much higher than competitors. Is that not worth it? I guess I don't do big writes often but wanted reliability. 

 

The NZXT fans are there because I'm a sucker for aesthetics, but I may give a look to other options also.

[Rathe90]

25 minutes ago, Somerandomtechyboi said:

https://pcpartpicker.com/list/JJR3Rv

Just a bunch of cost cutting on garbage

 

You can get a 1000w supernova gt for 140$ if you want for whatever reason

 

Ofc cut costs on aesthetics and useless crap like gen4 ssd, even upgraded the board to a z690 since it was the same price, if you insist on gen4 theres gammix s70 blades going around 120$ while delivering similar performance to a 980 pro

 

 

3 choices for rams

 

the tridentz royals you picked are remarkably cheap for what they are (binned b die kits), 180$ aint bad for good bin b die. Best ran at gear 1 (~4000-4200 depending on imc) at 1.65-1.75v (1.65v reccomended due to cooling limits and imc degradation concerns over 1.7v), dual rank dont clock high so dont expect much more than 4200. You should be able to acheive 4000 cl14/13 depending on how much volt you wanna crank into em like 13-14-14 or straight 14s, lower than 1.6v and dont bother considering these at all

 

4000 cl18 ripjaws v is most likely micron rev 16gbit rev b so best ran at gear 2 as fast as possible freq wise (though expect at most 5000 as even the highest bin kits are only reaching 5200 and thats with horrifically bad timings, more realistic to expect ~4800mhz though at cl18/17), also best ran at 1.6-1.7v though to get 1.7v to run you need ~800mv vttddr and you also need really good cooling so i advise sticking ~1.6v instead. These may also be able to come with b die but thats unlikely judging by the timings

 

The 3600 cl18 tforce is if you prefer to not f around in ram oc and just run stock

 

Ram oc is mostly for fun so maybe youll get a 5 or at most 10% performance increase out of ludicrous oc rams but youll prob not notice it other than in really ram heavy workloads that rely on ram speed

Good to hear the memory differences won't make a huge difference in real world use. I am giving a good look to the trimmed list you made. That is an excellent case with included RGB fans - all for 95. That's not bad!

[RONOTHAN##]

35 minutes ago, Somerandomtechyboi said:

the tridentz royals you picked are remarkably cheap for what they are (binned b die kits), 180$ aint bad for good bin b die.

They're not B die though. They're 4000 CL18-22-22-42. The CL18 isn't what makes B die, it's the tRCD and tRP that define if something is B die. 4000 tRCD 22 is not B die, that eliminates most of the complete crap ICs, but can still be almost anything. 

 

11 minutes ago, Rathe90 said:

I will look at the coolers you listed and see if the visibility is good for the memory. I think the Noctua D15S also has a good viewing angle for ram (single fan, dual tower).

The Scythe Fuma 2 does have pretty good viewing of RAM (it only covers 1 slot on my Z170 OC Formula). Go for the Rev. B though, it has the LGA 1700 mounting hardware included in the box and has a higher speed fan (you don't need to use the higher speed if you don't need it, it's just there if you do). Plus it's $50 cheaper than the D15S and comes blacked out, so that's a plus. 

 

12 minutes ago, Rathe90 said:

In terms of CPU, I'm new and don't understand all the finer points, wouldn't I lose 1.5/0.1GHz by going to the 12700?

You'd be losing the .1GHz on the boost, that's about it. Under load the CPU won't be at base clock. You won't notice a 100MHz drop in frequency. 

 

12 minutes ago, Rathe90 said:

The SSD was chosen for speed and ratings, yes, but also TBW - which it is much higher than competitors. Is that not worth it? I guess I don't do big writes often but wanted reliability. 

I have SSDs that have been used in gaming systems regularly for 5-10 years. They're still at 90% of their total write capacity. I mean, it's your money, but at the same time you won't notice the extra speed. 

[Somerandomtechyboi]

10 minutes ago, RONOTHAN## said:

They're not B die though. They're 4000 CL18-22-22-42. The CL18 isn't what makes B die, it's the tRCD and tRP that define if something is B die. 4000 tRCD 22 is not B die, that eliminates most of the complete crap ICs, but can still be almost anything. 

For all i know most tridentz royals are b die other than the garbage 3200 cl16 and 3600 cl18 bins so any examples of non b die tridentz royals?

[RONOTHAN##]

8 minutes ago, Somerandomtechyboi said:

For all i know most tridentz royals are b die other than the garbage 3200 cl16 and 3600 cl18 bins so any examples of non b die tridentz royals?

The royals are just a heat spreader. There is literally no difference between a 4000 CL18-22-22-42 royals kit and a Ripjaws V kit. They're binned just like everything else. 

 

Also, IMO there is no difference between a 3600 CL18-22-22-42 bin and a 4000 CL18-22-22-42 bin. They're both very meh bins. Biggest difference is that the 4000 bin can't be C die. 

[Somerandomtechyboi]

1 hour ago, RONOTHAN## said:

Also, IMO there is no difference between a 3600 CL18-22-22-42 bin and a 4000 CL18-22-22-42 bin. They're both very meh bins. Biggest difference is that the 4000 bin can't be C die. 

What else can they be other than micron 16gbit rev b/e?

[RONOTHAN##]

8 minutes ago, Somerandomtechyboi said:

What else can they be other than micron 16gbit rev b/e?

(I mostly know 8Gb dies so take that for what you will)

DJR, Good CJR, IIRC Samsung 16Gb M die can do that (EDIT: not M-die, though I believe Hynix has some good 16Gb stuff that can do that), Micron stuff, and I believe there's 1-2 more but I can't think of them off the top of my head. 

Edited June 7, 2022 by RONOTHAN##