Linus and Linux challenge

[lacek]

On 11/29/2021 at 3:35 PM, xAcid9 said:

Manjaro is not good because it based on Arch? So why you suggest Garuda then? I thought it based on Arch as well?

 

He tried PopOS and nuked the desktop environment, did you not watch the video? 

Distributions largely don't matter.  They perhaps matter if one does not want to install anything outside of distro repository. In many cases most effort is for out-of-distro tinkering.

[MattyWS]

ZorinOS doesn't get enough love, I think Linus should have gone with Zorin. It's super user friendly, comes with preset layout DEs to match windows (and looks hella nice), has decent driver support, and Wine just works... no setup or configuring required, you can install or run .exe applications by double clicking on them just like windows but it'll even tell you in the install of exes if there's a native version on the store and will give you the option to install that version instead.

The pro version is optional (nothing on the pro version you can't get on the free version, it's just to support the devs) but if someone did choose to pay for it, you can choose to install the OS with a bunch of software preinstalled including steam.

I've had issues on POP with software outright not working when they work on Mint, and Mint seems kinda cluttered and feels old, but those are my two other recommendations, however ZorinOS just wins hands down IMO.

[linkboy]

2 hours ago, MattyWS said:

ZorinOS doesn't get enough love, I think Linus should have gone with Zorin. It's super user friendly, comes with preset layout DEs to match windows (and looks hella nice), has decent driver support, and Wine just works... no setup or configuring required, you can install or run .exe applications by double clicking on them just like windows but it'll even tell you in the install of exes if there's a native version on the store and will give you the option to install that version instead.

The pro version is optional (nothing on the pro version you can't get on the free version, it's just to support the devs) but if someone did choose to pay for it, you can choose to install the OS with a bunch of software preinstalled including steam.

I've had issues on POP with software outright not working when they work on Mint, and Mint seems kinda cluttered and feels old, but those are my two other recommendations, however ZorinOS just wins hands down IMO.

 

It really doesn't. I'm currently running Mint, but Zorin was the first OS I went with when I decided to try Linux (again). 

 

I prefer Cinnamon as a desktop environment, which is why I'm sticking with Mint, but Zorin is a great distro for people coming over from Windows.

[lacek]

5 hours ago, MattyWS said:

has decent driver support

Does Zoris has seriously any better drivers than any other distro? I somehow doubt it is possible

[Alexeygridnev1993]

On 12/2/2021 at 12:30 AM, lacek said:

Does Zoris has seriously any better drivers than any other distro? I somehow doubt it is possible

Yeah, the drivers on Linux are part of the kernel, so, the state of your drivers will be predetermined by the kernel versions. The only thing you can do differently is to facilitate installation of proprietary drivers which are not part of the kernel, like those infamous Nvidia drivers.

[Lady Fitzgerald]

On 11/23/2021 at 5:19 PM, parasite_avi said:

Not at all. Luke is the big brain here for going with Linux Mint, which is a time-tested good ol' Ubuntu, thus Debian, derivative that Todd Howard would sell you thirteen times a year because it just works.

 

I started with LInux Mint XFCE, and man did it give a great transition into Linux world - I could do everything I couldn't do on Windows (terminal magic and package management glory), while being able to do everything I could on Windows, including plug-and-play gaming.

 

While Pop!_OS is based on Ubuntu as well, I kinda expected something unexpected to happen (not to that degree, though) because it just seems like a new player in the arena, and that's bound to attract at least some sort of issues. I don't blame them or say they're a terrible choice - no, props to them for trying to make Linux more accessible and all, but that's the thing a lot of other distros have been and are trying to achieve, and it's not even about installing Nvidia drivers. It's all about the very basics of the user interaction and what is expected from the end user of a Linux distribution.

 

And Manjaro is by no means a bad choice for a beginner - you get Arch Wiki, you get a massive community as well, you get everything else than a regular Arch user would in terms of package availability, and those things actually do make for an easier time on Arch-based distributions, especially when you want to install something and have to find and manually install a ton of dependencies and then enable some PPAs, and then something else entirely, all while on Arch-based distro you just install what you need from the AUR or even the official repositories and call it a day. Proton-GE is a great example.

I also started with Linux Mint except I chose the Cinnamon desktop based on recommendations I had read and seen in videos addressed to Windows refugees like me. Linux Mint also has an excellent user forum where newbies can get help (they have saved my bacon more times than I can remember).

 

I steered clear of POP!_OS, even though it is free, since it is proprietary and support for it would end if System 76 ever went belly up. After buying a System 76 laptop, I learned that their support is "less than stellar" so I lucked out there. I also steered away from Zorin for similar reasons plus I read somewhere that their kernel updates tend to be a bit behind.

 

When one is switching to Linux, one has to understand that LINUX IS NOT WINDOWS!, something Linus has not grasped yet and will continue to have grief until he does. The purpose of this challenge was unrealistic because there is an initial learning curve that has to be surmounted before tackling the more advanced stuff. In other words, Linus needs to learn to crawl before he learns to walk and needs to learn to walk before learning to run. Running headlong into more advanced tasks before becoming familiar with the basics is a recipe for disaster, which is the primary reason Linus is having one disaster after another.

 

I also read somewhere that the more proficient someone is in another OS, the harder the switch to Linux will be since so much has to be unlearned. While in no way do I consider myself to be a Windows expert, I still was amazed by the amount of "unlearning" I had to do, even though I was fully expecting it.

 

After seeing that Linus installed Notepad++ via Wine, I just stopped watching it since Linus still hasn't received the memo that Linux is NOT Windows. There are plenty of native Linux applications that can do what Notepad++ can do, mayhap even do more. Linus needs to learn that Windows programs do not port well into Linux, if at all, even with Wine, Crossover, etc. Instead of thinking in terms of using Windows programs or finding exact replacements, he needs to be thinking about the result he wants to achieve, then see what Linux programs will give the same result. It may even be necessary to adopt a completely different work flow to get the desired results. Then he needs to accept he has to "forget" how he did things in Windows and that there will be a learning curve for the new programs and/or workflows. Until then, Linus, and anyone else making the same mistakes, is doomed to dismal failure.

 

So far, I've found acceptable, sometimes even superior, native Linux replacements for programs and/or workflows I used in Windows with only one exception (DVDFab and I've found a replacement program that has been meeting my needs much of the time ) so, if a rank noob with learning disabilities like me can do it, someone with an equal or better grasp of computers as me, such as Linus (he could run circles around me) can do it.

 

Another valuable piece of advice for Linux newbies is to first install Linux on a separate computer and take time to fool around with it instead of just diving in. The first thing to learn after installing Linux is how to backup the installation so one can quickly restore it after borking it (and there will be many, many times the installation will become borked during the learning process; just accept it and not start distro hopping the first time it happens). Diving in and expecting it to immediately work the way you want will result in serious disappointment.

 

I've been using Linux Mint Cinnamon as my daily driver (heck, my only driver) for close to two years now and I still consider myself to be a beginner. I'm nowhere nearly as knowledgeable on Linux as I was on Win 7 (the last good OS Windows had despite MS degrading it toward the end) and I didn't consider me to be an expert on Win 7, but I'm still learning and have been happy with Mint, happier than I was with steadily declining Windows' OSes.

[Normand_Nadon]

When I heard Linus talking about Notepad ++ I immediatly was convinced that he did not get it at all! Notepad ++ is a solution for the atrocious options available in Windows, but on linux, any included text editor beats it instantly! Gedit is one good example... I have been coding more in gedit than I have been on a real code editors... Hell even nano beats notepad ++ easily! 

 

Linus wants to do Windows stuff in Linux... He is not interested in the alternative workflow... It is not a winning recipe... If you want to do things the windows way, use Windows! If you try Linux, or Mac, or anything else, you need to learn the OS's workflow!

Would you try to use an Android phone the Windows way?

[System Coding]

On 11/29/2021 at 8:05 PM, xAcid9 said:

Manjaro is not good because it based on Arch? So why you suggest Garuda then? I thought it based on Arch as well?

 

He tried PopOS and nuked the desktop environment, did you not watch the video? 

YES i did watch the video and PopOS team fixed the apt problem, the thing is that i use manjaro as my daily driver and audio dosen't want to work at all for the first time,the solution is that i need to edit some kind of file to load sound modules at the startup whereas garuda (optimized for gaming) and other operating systems that i could mention are better and users don't need to edit any files to get basic things working like sound and recording things working.

[xAcid9]

32 minutes ago, System Coding said:

YES i did watch the video and PopOS team fixed the apt problem, the thing is that i use manjaro as my daily driver and audio dosen't want to work at all for the first time,the solution is that i need to edit some kind of file to load sound modules at the startup whereas garuda (optimized for gaming) and other operating systems that i could mention are better and users don't need to edit any files to get basic things working like sound and recording things working.

Hmm.. I've never encountered audio not working out of the box with Manjaro. Usually only WiFi. What command did you run to make it work?

[delph]

It should be said that most google searches for linux distros will return at least one Arch-based distro and one Gentoo-based one. Not to mention two or three media-only distros like Recalbox or Kodi. So, taking the spirit of the video - if you decide one day, with no prior knowledge, "I'm going to switch to Linux." - these are probably things you're going to see. Depending on how the article is worded, you're likely to pick up something like Manjaro. Whether or not it's for completely new users is up for debate (I'd personally say it's as friendly as any other distro for completely new users).

 

There's something that could be said about Linus' approach to problem solving - I think his well was thoroughly poisoned and assumed that things were going to be harder than they really are. But again, I think this is true for newcomers to Linux - especially as some articles (like one recently posted here) make it sound like Linux is a complicated mountain of customization for every pixel and bit.

 

It'd be nice if they added an additional video with someone who does daily drive with Linux explaining their preference or troubles they run into (the Nvidia drivers issue being a huge one worthy of note.)

[System Coding]

3 hours ago, xAcid9 said:

Hmm.. I've never encountered audio not working out of the box with Manjaro. Usually only WiFi. What command did you run to make it work?

I actually needed to edit my grub config to load sound modules in the boot up that actually fixed the problem, i faced this everytime i install manjaro linux (type dosen't matter here)