Intel or AMD?

[Chris Pratt]

5800X is better than a 10850K and ever so slightly cheaper from what I'm seeing. You're losing 2 cores and 4 threads, but the 5800X has much better single core perf and better core for core multicore perf than Intel 10th gen. In other words, unless you actually need the 4 extra threads, you basically losing nothing in multicore and gaining significantly in single core perf. If you want something comparable from Intel, get an 11700K.

[Caleb2W]

9 minutes ago, Chris Pratt said:

5800X is better than a 10850K and ever so slightly cheaper from what I'm seeing. You're losing 2 cores and 4 threads, but the 5800X has much better single core perf and better core for core multicore perf than Intel 10th gen. In other words, unless you actually need the 4 extra threads, you basically losing nothing in multicore and gaining significantly in single core perf. If you want something comparable from Intel, get an 11700K.

Thank you this answers the questions pretty well lol now is there anything different I’d have to do if I went with the 5800x when building like do I have to download the drivers on a flash drive or do a bios update?

[Chris Pratt]

2 minutes ago, Caleb2W said:

Thank you this answers the questions pretty well lol now is there anything different I’d have to do if I went with the 5800x when building like do I have to download the drivers on a flash drive or do a bios update?

It depends. You'd need to update chipset drivers either way. Nothing else software-wise should be different. However, if you have an existing Windows install, it's generally better to just reinstall Windows when you change platforms. Much less issues overall that way, simply because so much changes, including potentially audio, LAN, Bluetooth, etc.

 

Any recent B550 or X570 board should come out of the box ready for Zen 3, but there's a possibility that you will need to update the BIOS. Personally, I'd always update the BIOS on a new board, regardless. I'd make sure to get board which features flashback, though, as this allows you to update the BIOS without a CPU installed, and also just makes BIOS updates easier, in general, as you never have to worry about bricking the board in case of a power outage or something.

[Caleb2W]

4 minutes ago, Chris Pratt said:

It depends. You'd need to update chipset drivers either way. Nothing else software-wise should be different. However, if you have an existing Windows install, it's generally better to just reinstall Windows when you change platforms. Much less issues overall that way, simply because so much changes, including potentially audio, LAN, Bluetooth, etc.

 

Any recent B550 or X570 board should come out of the box ready for Zen 3, but there's a possibility that you will need to update the BIOS. Personally, I'd always update the BIOS on a new board, regardless. I'd make sure to get board which features flashback, though, as this allows you to update the BIOS without a CPU installed, and also just makes BIOS updates easier, in general, as you never have to worry about bricking the board in case of a power outage or something.

See tbh all that is confusing lol is there a video that breaks it down for dumb people that you’d recommend? Lol

[Chris Pratt]

1 minute ago, Caleb2W said:

See tbh all that is confusing lol is there a video that breaks it down for dumb people that you’d recommend? Lol

What part specifically? Honestly, you just kind of need to do your research. Watching build guides is a good first step, but it's mostly just in planning your build. Once you have an idea of what you want, you can post your potential build here for critique, and as long as you mention important things like that the fact that you may have existing parts or an existing Windows install, you'll get appropriate advice.

 

If you don't want to fool around with it as much, there's no shame at all in sticking with Intel, but something like a 11700K is a much better choice than a 10850K at the same price. You'll still be switching boards, though, either way, so there's only so much you can actually avoid.

[Bombastinator]

2 hours ago, IkeaGnome said:

I was kind of hoping you'd say no to the CPU. On Intel that means you could use a B560 and be able to OC the ram for almost $70 cheaper on the motherboard. Both of these lists are assuming you use your ram and current cooler.

https://pcpartpicker.com/list/frYWNq

https://pcpartpicker.com/list/LDPhgt

While this benchmark video doesn't list the 10850k, it lists the 10900k this will give you an idea on comparisons. The 10850k is a 10900k, but at slightly (100mhz IIRC) speeds. 

They're virtually neck and neck for $60 more. 

The other thing to think about is how boost works. Intel will boost for a certain amount of time before it cuts back. AMD doesn't. Give it enough power and keep the heat cool enough and it'll go. 

OP in this thread ended up going for a 5900x instead of the 5800x or 10850k. The 5900x is hard to find because it does run cooler than the 5800x. If you wanted to go that route for potentially higher OCs on AMD, it's MSRP is $550.

5900 is a plain better chip.  The problem is getting one.  If 5900s were easily available, 5800 would likely sell more poorly.  The only reason to recommend a 5800 is if there’s no 5900s to be had.  If one is gettable it’s a better choice.

[IkeaGnome]

2 hours ago, Caleb2W said:

See tbh all that is confusing lol is there a video that breaks it down for dumb people that you’d recommend? Lol

If you're using the button it's easy. No CPU, no RAM, no storage drives on the motherboard. Just the 8 pin and 24 pin.

51 minutes ago, Bombastinator said:

5900 is a plain better chip.  The problem is getting one.  If 5900s were easily available, 5800 would likely sell more poorly.  The only reason to recommend a 5800 is if there’s no 5900s to be had.  If one is gettable it’s a better choice.

I completely agree. If I had been able to get a 5900 when I got my 5800 I would have. That being said, the 5800x is down to $400 usd instead of the $450 it MSRPd at launch which makes it look a little better.

[Bombastinator]

18 minutes ago, IkeaGnome said:

If you're using the button it's easy. No CPU, no RAM, no storage drives on the motherboard. Just the 8 pin and 24 pin.

I completely agree. If I had been able to get a 5900 when I got my 5800 I would have. That being said, the 5800x is down to $400 usd instead of the $450 it MSRPd at launch which makes it look a little better.

True.  The problem with the 5800 was primarily MSRP price point. The question is not what is the MSRP though but what they are selling for. If you can’t get a 5900 it’s msrp is unobtainium.  The 5950 sold for way way less when it came out than the near grand it seems to go for these days. 

[Caleb2W]

1 hour ago, Bombastinator said:

True.  The problem with the 5800 was primarily MSRP price point. The question is not what is the MSRP though but what they are selling for. If you can’t get a 5900 it’s msrp is unobtainium.  The 5950 sold for way way less when it came out than the near grand it seems to go for these days. 

Yea after coming home and watching some videos I understand how to flash the bios now sounded much harder then it is lol and I’ll probably go with the 5800x like you said the 5900 plus any gpu’s are impossible to get ahold of at a decent price 

[IkeaGnome]

8 minutes ago, Caleb2W said:

Yea after coming home and watching some videos I understand how to flash the bios now sounded much harder then it is lol and I’ll probably go with the 5800x like you said the 5900 plus any gpu’s are impossible to get ahold of at a decent price 

I actually just looked because I read this. All the 5000 series are in stock.

https://www.amd.com/en/direct-buy/5450881500/us

5800x is cheaper on Newegg by $50.

The rest are cheaper through AMD direct.

 

Nevermind. Happened to hit a stock drop. Dropped like 2 minutes before I happened to check. They're OOS now.

[Caleb2W]

12 minutes ago, IkeaGnome said:

I actually just looked because I read this. All the 5000 series are in stock.

https://www.amd.com/en/direct-buy/5450881500/us

5800x is cheaper on Newegg by $50.

The rest are cheaper through AMD direct.

 

Nevermind. Happened to hit a stock drop. Dropped like 2 minutes before I happened to check. They're OOS now.

Rip lol I’ll be happy with the 5800x seems the 5000 series in general is pretty amazing lol

[IkeaGnome]

9 minutes ago, Caleb2W said:

Rip lol I’ll be happy with the 5800x seems the 5000 series in general is pretty amazing lol

It's a good CPU for sure. Don't get the negative talk mislead you. If you start playing around with PBO you can get some cool things done with 5000 series. I've got my 5800x running off a little L12s. CPU it's self doesn't overheat with just a -25 PBO offset. Because of how my case is laid out, it actually pushes enough heat down and out(it's a side draft) and ends up in the PSU and trips it's OTP if I try to OC too far. 

[Caleb2W]

5 minutes ago, IkeaGnome said:

It's a good CPU for sure. Don't get the negative talk mislead you. If you start playing around with PBO you can get some cool things done with 5000 series. I've got my 5800x running off a little L12s. CPU it's self doesn't overheat with just a -25 PBO offset. Because of how my case is laid out, it actually pushes enough heat down and out(it's a side draft) and ends up in the PSU and trips it's OTP if I try to OC too far. 

See I gotta learn how to mess with all that. So far I know how to overclock the ram lol with this pc I’ll mostly be playing games and looking forward to battlefield. I just want a pc that can handle whatever game I throw at it at whatever settings and still get high frames. I’d definitely get the 5900x if they were at normal price but I’m not willing to go over MSRP that much lol I’m overpaying on a lot of parts just because I like Corsair but still lol

[IkeaGnome]

Just now, Caleb2W said:

See I gotta learn how to mess with all that. So far I know how to overclock the ram lol with this pc I’ll mostly be playing games and looking forward to battlefield. I just want a pc that can handle whatever game I throw at it at whatever settings and still get high frames. I’d definitely get the 5900x if they were at normal price but I’m not willing to go over MSRP that much lol I’m overpaying on a lot of parts just because I like Corsair but still lol

I linked it once before here, but this post if you expand the spoilers has a couple of videos and diagrams. First video is AMD saying how PBO works. I can't remember if they reference Intel's time based boost or not. The second video is a guy that does a lot of SFF builds showing how he used a negative offset, and gained performance due to chip temperature going down. I was actually able to do that same thing. At about a -15 offset I gained performance, but due to the horrible thermal design of my case I was over heating my PSU. At -25 I lost a little bit of performance(I want to say < 300 points in Cinnebench), but don't trip my PSU. 

I'm also a bit of a weird case for the 5800x. Super small cooler. L12s where most people are using U12 or D15 sized coolers. All in a small case with some thermal...quirks. 

 

[Bombastinator]

49 minutes ago, Caleb2W said:

Yea after coming home and watching some videos I understand how to flash the bios now sounded much harder then it is lol and I’ll probably go with the 5800x like you said the 5900 plus any gpu’s are impossible to get ahold of at a decent price 

Seems somewhat variable by area, and while one hopes things will return to normal or near normal.  Covid isn’t over and seems to be getting worse.  Just not everywhere atm.

Edited July 2, 2021 by Bombastinator

[Caleb2W]

4 minutes ago, IkeaGnome said:

I linked it once before here, but this post if you expand the spoilers has a couple of videos and diagrams. First video is AMD saying how PBO works. I can't remember if they reference Intel's time based boost or not. The second video is a guy that does a lot of SFF builds showing how he used a negative offset, and gained performance due to chip temperature going down. I was actually able to do that same thing. At about a -15 offset I gained performance, but due to the horrible thermal design of my case I was over heating my PSU. At -25 I lost a little bit of performance(I want to say < 300 points in Cinnebench), but don't trip my PSU. 

I'm also a bit of a weird case for the 5800x. Super small cooler. L12s where most people are using U12 or D15 sized coolers. All in a small case with some thermal...quirks. 

 

Case wise I researched a lot for one with good air flow so I already bought the Corsair 4000D airflow and for cooling I’m going 360m radiator Corsair 150i elite then I’m going to have 3 fans in the back for exhausted 

[Caleb2W]

2 minutes ago, Bombastinator said:

Seems somewhat variable by area, and while one hopes things will return to normal or near normal.  Covid isn’t over and seems to be getting worse.  Just not everywhere atm.

Yea I’m hoping once every calms down I can get ahold of a 3080 or something lol

[Bombastinator]

Just now, Caleb2W said:

Case wise I researched a lot for one with good air flow so I already bought the Corsair 4000D airflow and for cooling I’m going 360m radiator Corsair 150i elite then I’m going to have 3 fans in the back for exhausted 

So case is covered as well as more cpu cooling than anyone will ever need till it breaks.  Loudest thing about it will probably be the bubbles in the AIO lines if you manage your fan ramps. Doesn’t affect intel vs AMD much though.  Does mean you are not cooler limited at all for just about anything.

[Caleb2W]

1 minute ago, Bombastinator said:

So case is covered as well as more cpu cooling than anyone will ever need till it breaks.  Loudest thing about it will probably be the bubbles in the AIO lines if you manage your fan ramps. Doesn’t affect intel vs AMD much though.  Does mean you are not cooler limited at all for just about anything.

Yea and if it’s loud at all it’s fine my pc sits next to my desk on a stand off the ground. I just want my temps to be low especially if I learn to over clock 

[Bombastinator]

24 minutes ago, IkeaGnome said:

It's a good CPU for sure. Don't get the negative talk mislead you. If you start playing around with PBO you can get some cool things done with 5000 series. I've got my 5800x running off a little L12s. CPU it's self doesn't overheat with just a -25 PBO offset. Because of how my case is laid out, it actually pushes enough heat down and out(it's a side draft) and ends up in the PSU and trips it's OTP if I try to OC too far. 

There basically aren’t any functionally bad new cpus right now.  Anything except bulldozer is more or less fine, and bulldozer hasn’t really existed for some time now as far as new chips are concerned.  It’s all about what you need to do and what you can spend.  It entirely price/performance atm for non enterprise users. 

[Caleb2W]

2 minutes ago, Bombastinator said:

There basically aren’t any functionally bad new cpus right now.  Anything except bulldozer is more or less fine, and bulldozer hasn’t really existed for some time now as far as new chips are concerned.  It’s all about what you need to do and what you can spend.  It entirely price/performance atm for non enterprise users. 

Yea like I don’t technically need to upgrade from my prebuild but there is something about building one and it being mine that I want to experience I should after some more research order my last parts soon lol maybe convince the wife to buy me a part for my birthday next week lol

[Bombastinator]

3 minutes ago, Caleb2W said:

Yea and if it’s loud at all it’s fine my pc sits next to my desk on a stand off the ground. I just want my temps to be low especially if I learn to over clock 

Won’t even be particularly loud.  You’re going to have to do a lot of overclocking on a really hot chip before noise even becomes a concern. 3 fan radiator.AIOs are overkill for practically everything.  If it wasn’t an AIO you could probably get a water cooled 3080 into that loop and it would STILL be fine.

[Bombastinator]

1 minute ago, Caleb2W said:

Yea like I don’t technically need to upgrade from my prebuild but there is something about building one and it being mine that I want to experience I should after some more research order my last parts soon lol maybe convince the wife to buy me a part for my birthday next week lol

There are some options for gifts that don’t affect the decision.  Memory is more or less intel/AMD agnostic.  So are PSUs.  
 

regarding intel vs AMD:

As far as I can tell since actual for realz top end performance  is server grade stuff that is too expensive to even talk about (I vaguely remember seeing a recent video that said a top end server cpu was 8k?  Not sure) so at the consumer level it’s just not that important.  Whatever you get the best deal on is the best one.  whichever you go for it’s about what you get for how much, and that seems to vary week to week and by area.  

[Caleb2W]

4 minutes ago, Bombastinator said:

There are some options for gifts that don’t affect the decision.  Memory is more or less intel/AMD agnostic.  So are PSUs.  
 

regarding intel vs AMD:

As far as I can tell since actual for realz top end performance  is server grade stuff that is too expensive to even talk about (I vaguely remember seeing a recent video that said a top end server cpu was 8k?  Not sure) so at the consumer level it’s just not that important.  Whatever you get the best deal on is the best one.  whichever you go for it’s about what you get for how much, and that seems to vary week to week and by area.  

Yea I’m going to dive into some more research and compare and see what comes out to be the best for my budget thank you for all your help