Do MicroTik AP’s have roaming with CAPsMAN?

[Falcon1986]

8 hours ago, Zerxal said:

Red is proposed access point locations, orange is the single location where I have a direct Ethernet connection and a switch downstairs.

Why do you propose to mount the APs so far in the corners of the house? You’re wasting a lot of the coverage radius on the APs that way.

 

In image #2, for example, I assume there is a hallway running in the middle from top-down. Divide that hallway into thirds, then place an AP at each junction of a third. It doesn’t have to be exactly like this, but the concept is to take full advantage of the omnidirectional antennae.

 

[Zerxal]

2 hours ago, Falcon1986 said:

Why do you propose to mount the APs so far in the corners of the house? You’re wasting a lot of the coverage radius on the APs that way.

 

In image #2, for example, I assume there is a hallway running in the middle from top-down. Divide that hallway into thirds, then place an AP at each junction of a third. It doesn’t have to be exactly like this, but the concept is to take full advantage of the omnidirectional antennae.

 

I'm placing them where I have access to coax and/or ethernet. The bottom right on the second floor is the office where I have my router. The opposite end is the master bedroom, where there is a coax in. I don't just have coax in the hallway or ethernet ports.

 

Where would be optimal? Every bedroom on the second floor has coax, and there's coax in the kitchen in the middle of the first floor. There's another coax at the bottom right hand side on the 1st floor. There might be one in the top right of the first floor, not sure. It's probably buried behind the couch.

[Falcon1986]

2 hours ago, Zerxal said:

I'm placing them where I have access to coax and/or ethernet. The bottom right on the second floor is the office where I have my router. The opposite end is the master bedroom, where there is a coax in.

Why are you talking about coax? Are you planning to use MoCA, replacing the coax with ethernet or running ethernet in parallel with the coax?

 

2 hours ago, Zerxal said:

I don't just have coax in the hallway or ethernet ports.

That doesn’t matter. Extend the ethernet run from the wall ports along the edge of wall/ceiling and you’ll be able to mount the APs in the hallway.

 

2 hours ago, Zerxal said:

Where would be optimal? Every bedroom on the second floor has coax, and there's coax in the kitchen in the middle of the first floor. There's another coax at the bottom right hand side on the 1st floor. There might be one in the top right of the first floor, not sure. It's probably buried behind the couch.

Again, extend the ethernet from the port and place the APs more centrally.

 

If you were able to place the APs more centrally, you might get away with 1 AP per floor.

 

Another thing to keep in mind is that the UniFi APs require PoE, which can be in the form of PoE injectors (all single-unit packages come with one; none in the multi-unit packages). So if you’re going to use them, you’ll also need a standard power outlet. This doesn’t have to be close to the mount point of the AP as you can use a good length of ethernet from the PoE injector to the AP. The alternative is to use a central PoE switch, which Ubiquiti also sells, so you don’t have extra PoE injectors lying around.

 

What kind of internal walls do you have? Concrete with steel, brick, wooden frame with drywall? In case of the latter (common to most North American homes), I’d consider the following...

 

Personally, if you could mount them centrally, you could probably get away with a single UAP-AC-NanoHD on the top floor (in the hallway) and a UAP-FlexHD (it can be placed on a shelf) on the ground floor. Wire them all up to a decent router (e.g. EdgeRouter-X) and you should have pretty decent WiFi. Can always add more APs in low-signal areas later on.

[Zerxal]

6 hours ago, Falcon1986 said:

Why are you talking about coax? Are you planning to use MoCA, replacing the coax with ethernet or running ethernet in parallel with the coax?

I am, yes.

6 hours ago, Falcon1986 said:

Again, extend the ethernet from the port and place the APs more centrally.

 

If you were able to place the APs more centrally, you might get away with 1 AP per floor.

 

Another thing to keep in mind is that the UniFi APs require PoE, which can be in the form of PoE injectors (all single-unit packages come with one; none in the multi-unit packages). So if you’re going to use them, you’ll also need a standard power outlet. This doesn’t have to be close to the mount point of the AP as you can use a good length of ethernet from the PoE injector to the AP. The alternative is to use a central PoE switch, which Ubiquiti also sells, so you don’t have extra PoE injectors lying around.

 

What kind of internal walls do you have? Concrete with steel, brick, wooden frame with drywall? In case of the latter (common to most North American homes), I’d consider the following...

I have wooden frame with drywall, as I am in North America.

 

6 hours ago, Falcon1986 said:

Personally, if you could mount them centrally, you could probably get away with a single UAP-AC-NanoHD on the top floor (in the hallway) and a UAP-FlexHD (it can be placed on a shelf) on the ground floor. Wire them all up to a decent router (e.g. EdgeRouter-X) and you should have pretty decent WiFi. Can always add more APs in low-signal areas later on.

What's the difference between a nanoHD and the FlexHD? They're the same price.

 

At current pricing, I stand with a total of $680 if I use a Microtik router:

 

RB3011UiAS-RM - $170
Modem - $150
FlexHD - $180
nanoHD - $180

 

Is there anywhere else I can cut costs? I have gigabit internet, so I do need the hardware to match.

[brwainer]

54 minutes ago, Zerxal said:

What's the difference between a nanoHD and the FlexHD? They're the same price.

Purely form factor (and slightly different antenna but its close enough to not matter). If you can put it on the ceiling use the nanoHD, otherwise use the FlexHD.

 

1 hour ago, Zerxal said:

RB3011UiAS-RM - $170

If you're in the US, the RB3011 can be purchased from Baltic Networks or Streakwave for $145. If not in the US, I recommend checking with the official distributors in your country. Oftentimes these companies are also Ubiquiti distributors (Baltic Networks and Streakwave both are) so you can place your order all at once and not have a huge disadvantage in shipping costs.

Also, the hEX (RB750Gr3 - $50-$60) can handle gigabit internet with FastTrack enabled. FastTrack means you have to give up some features, but there is a way to do QOS still: https://forum.mikrotik.com/viewtopic.php?t=113308

And then if you need more ethernet ports you can use any ethernet switch (it will need to be "smart" at least if you intend to use VLANs). The RB3011 is already using two switch chips internally, so you aren't really introducing a bottleneck by going this route.

1 hour ago, Zerxal said:

Modem - $150

Can you use your current modem? Or if you have a modem/router combo currently, have you checked whether it can be put into Bridge Mode?

Based on this price I assume you are looking at the Surfboard SB8200 or similar, for DOCSIS 3.1. Have you looked into buying a used one? I see "Renewed" listings on Amazon as low as $120.

 

1 hour ago, Zerxal said:

FlexHD - $180

Again I don't know what country you are in, but this is $173.50 at Baltic Networks and $164 at Streakwave

 

1 hour ago, Zerxal said:

nanoHD - $180

This is $157.50 at Baltic Networks and $151 at Streakwave.

 

So just by looking at distributors, you can save a decent amount by shopping smart. And you are going to get better treatment by Ubiquiti Support if you need help buying from an official distributor versus off Amazon. (They still give best treatment if you buy from their store directly)

[Zerxal]

57 minutes ago, brwainer said:

Purely form factor (and slightly different antenna but its close enough to not matter). If you can put it on the ceiling use the nanoHD, otherwise use the FlexHD.

The issue with pulling wires through the ceiling is that I have a finished attic, nor do I have crawl space access. I can’t just throw a wire up there and then fish it down easily.

 

58 minutes ago, brwainer said:

If you're in the US, the RB3011 can be purchased from Baltic Networks or Streakwave for $145. If not in the US, I recommend checking with the official distributors in your country. Oftentimes these companies are also Ubiquiti distributors (Baltic Networks and Streakwave both are) so you can place your order all at once and not have a huge disadvantage in shipping costs.

Also, the hEX (RB750Gr3 - $50-$60) can handle gigabit internet with FastTrack enabled. FastTrack means you have to give up some features, but there is a way to do QOS still: https://forum.mikrotik.com/viewtopic.php?t=113308

And then if you need more ethernet ports you can use any ethernet switch (it will need to be "smart" at least if you intend to use VLANs). The RB3011 is already using two switch chips internally, so you aren't really introducing a bottleneck by going this route.

I am in the U.S, but the RB3011 at those guys show as $175 at Baltic and the normal $180 at Streakwave.

 

I’m being a choosing beggar, but I’m trying to go rack-mount only for my new networking equipment so that I don’t have to buy a new one down the road. RB3011 seemed like a good choice after someone told me that the $60 cheaper RB2011iL-RM was out of date.

 

And what’s FastTrack and what is QOS? Forgive me, I’m more familiar with Ubiquiti.

 

1 hour ago, brwainer said:

Can you use your current modem? Or if you have a modem/router combo currently, have you checked whether it can be put into Bridge Mode?

Based on this price I assume you are looking at the Surfboard SB8200 or similar, for DOCSIS 3.1. Have you looked into buying a used one? I see "Renewed" listings on Amazon as low as $120.

That’s a fantastic idea! I never thought of using bridge mode as I use an xFi. I checked and I can use bridge mode with it, so that knocks $150 off the price already. I’d just have to check whether my landline VOIP through them and my TV would still work.

[brwainer]

11 minutes ago, Zerxal said:

I am in the U.S, but the RB3011 at those guys show as $175 at Baltic and the normal $180 at Streakwave.

$179.00 is the MSRP, but neither site actually sells it for that price, they are both lower. But they are both out of stock of the RB3011. I am unsure whether the RB3011 is still being produced since the RB4011 has been out for a while. If you can find it anywhere for a price you are happy with then I guess that's good.

 

11 minutes ago, Zerxal said:

And what’s FastTrack and what is QOS? Forgive me, I’m more familiar with Ubiquiti.

If you have to ask this, you are in for quite a wild ride learning how to set up Mikrotik.....

RouterOS has a *lot* of features. Many of them you don't need. But even if they aren't set up, the system still has to check each one for every packet that goes through. UNLESS you enable FastTrack, which bypasses a bunch of features that aren't important to a normal home or small business network. If you keep the default config, I believe FastTrack is enabled by default. You can also look at the documentation: https://wiki.mikrotik.com/wiki/Manual:IP/Fasttrack

 

QoS is "Quality of Service". Nearly all routers have something. Ubiquiti calls this Smart Queue and uses the FQ-CoDel algorithm. RouterOS (like in nearly every other instance) doesn't have a simple one-button answer for QOS, instead it has an incredibly flexible queue system.

[Zerxal]

15 minutes ago, brwainer said:

$179.00 is the MSRP, but neither site actually sells it for that price, they are both lower. But they are both out of stock of the RB3011. I am unsure whether the RB3011 is still being produced since the RB4011 has been out for a while. If you can find it anywhere for a price you are happy with then I guess that's good.

Do you have any recommendations for the situation with me having a finished attic and how to get cables to a AP in the middle of the second floor hallway’s ceiling? Could I just put the AP in the corner of the office and it would give signal to the entire 1k sq ft floor?

 

Also, the first floor is 2k sq ft. Do you think a flex hd could cover the entirety of this?

[brwainer]

1 minute ago, Zerxal said:

Do you have any recommendations for the situation with me having a finished attic and how to get cables to a AP in the middle of the second floor hallway’s ceiling? Could I just put the AP in the corner of the office and it would give signal to the entire 1k sq ft floor?

 

Also, the first floor is 2k sq ft. Do you think a flex hd could cover the entirety of this?

I don't know. Best I can say is go to design.ui.com and draw up a to-scale diagram, with the proper types of walls and such, and see what it shows when you place the APs.

[Zerxal]

22 minutes ago, brwainer said:

I don't know. Best I can say is go to design.ui.com and draw up a to-scale diagram, with the proper types of walls and such, and see what it shows when you place the APs.

Alright, thanks.

[Zerxal]

On 11/17/2020 at 11:15 PM, brwainer said:

I don't know. Best I can say is go to design.ui.com and draw up a to-scale diagram, with the proper types of walls and such, and see what it shows when you place the APs.

Alright, I got my floor plan from https://www.cubi.casa and have it in Unifi Design Center.

 

From what it seems, I can use only a single nanoHD upstairs if I can get it centrally mounted in the hallway. Otherwise I will need two.

 

My question is, do you know how well the flexHD penetrates floors? If it does it well, then I can just put two of the flexHD's fairly close to each other on the 1st floor and leave out having to fish a cable down a floor.

[brwainer]

57 minutes ago, Zerxal said:

Alright, I got my floor plan from https://www.cubi.casa and have it in Unifi Design Center.

 

From what it seems, I can use only a single nanoHD upstairs if I can get it centrally mounted in the hallway. Otherwise I will need two.

 

My question is, do you know how well the flexHD penetrates floors? If it does it well, then I can just put two of the flexHD's fairly close to each other on the 1st floor and leave out having to fish a cable down a floor.

The antenna is mostly omnidirectional, there is a slight preference for signal going horizontal instead of vertical. Most floors are about equal to two walls, especially as you get farther away from being right above/below the AP, because at oblique angles the effective thickness of the floor to the signal path increases (same for walls). You’ll likely get usable speeds on the second floor with this setup, but not close to what you get on the first floor.

[Zerxal]

9 minutes ago, brwainer said:

The antenna is mostly omnidirectional, there is a slight preference for signal going horizontal instead of vertical. Most floors are about equal to two walls, especially as you get farther away from being right above/below the AP, because at oblique angles the effective thickness of the floor to the signal path increases (same for walls). You’ll likely get usable speeds on the second floor with this setup, but not close to what you get on the first floor.

This is how it currently looks.

 

First floor, I have to do two AP's downstairs. One is not enough:

 

 

Second floor:

 

[brwainer]

2 hours ago, Zerxal said:

This is how it currently looks.

 

First floor, I have to do two AP's downstairs. One is not enough:

 

 

Second floor:

 

So without the AP on the 2nd floor, if you tried to rely on only the 1st floor APs, I would not expect a good experience in the Master Bedroom.

[Zerxal]

28 minutes ago, brwainer said:

So without the AP on the 2nd floor, if you tried to rely on only the 1st floor APs, I would not expect a good experience in the Master Bedroom.

I worded that wrongly and did not think that through, disregard what I asked. This is probably the cheapest I can get it as is before I start going to suppliers and asking how much of a discount they can give. Thank you for your help.