Alienware Deceptive Advertising

[SocraticShooter]

I bought the new Alienware Ryzen PC at the beginning of the pandemic because I knew I was going to be at home a lot more and did not have enough saved up yet to build a new PC without using Dell's financing. I have been back and forth with Dell for awhile, long enough to be out of the return window, about this PC. Since the beginning, the GPU was only running at 3.0 x8 even though both the card and motherboard was supposed to be capable of x16. They sent a tech out to replace the graphics card today but yesterday I was told by a representative that my motherboard only had 2 x8 slots, no x16, and she sent a link to the tech specs ( https://www.dell.com/support/manuals/us/en/19/alienware-aurora-r10-desktop/alienware-aurora-ryzen-setup-and-specifications/ports-and-connectors?guid=guid-f8c43812-78d4-4e7f-91e3-7360e814ac28&lang=en-us ). I clicked on the link and it showed the same thing as it did when I ordered the PC, 2 x16 slots. I know that it makes a minuscule difference to have x16, especially with a 2060 super, but even though I would never notice the difference in practice I feel like I should have gotten what I paid for. When the tech replaced the graphics card this morning I looked at the motherboard and saw both of the larger slots were marked clearly as x8. The representative I am talking to now said that they can function as both x8 and x16 but I'm pretty sure she's confusing the difference between an x8 slot being able to function with a x16 card and the slot actually providing all 16 lanes the card is able to utilize. I know it makes negligible difference in performance and I am now out of the return window (though I have been in contact about this issue with Dell since the 3rd or 4th day I had the PC) but am I wrong to keep pushing this issue since I paid for x16 slots? If not, how can I proceed with them to try and find a remedy since they haven't had tech representatives who are knowledgeable enough to even address the issue?

[zeusthemoose]

5 minutes ago, SocraticShooter said:

but am I wrong to keep pushing this issue since I paid for x16 slots? If not, how can I proceed with them to try and find a remedy since they haven't had tech representatives who are knowledgeable enough to even address the issue?

You are not wrong at all. You paid for 2 x16 and didn’t get it. If they won’t to anything else to fix it (replacing motherboard) return it. There are other system builders who do financing and give you what you paid for.

[SocraticShooter]

After looking through the pdf manual I found this line, "Connect a PCI-Express card such as graphics, audio, or network card to enhance the capabilities of your computer. For optimal graphics performance, use a PCI-Express X16 slot for connecting the graphics card. NOTE: The PCI-Express X16 slot works at X8 lanes only."

 

This is only in the pdf download of the manual, so the specs advertised when I purchased it only said x16 slots and I never imagined a AM4 board built for gamers would not come with a PCI slot utilizing 16 lanes. This seems fairly deceptive.

alienware-aurora-r10-desktop_users-guide_en-us.pdf

Edited June 16, 2020 by SocraticShooter
Stated it was a 570 instead of 550 board.

[BobVonBob]

PCIe slots are advertised by their physical size, not their bandwidth. It sucks for people like you and I who know what PCIe lanes are, but for a layperson advertising an x8 slot can cause confusion. "Does an x8 slot mean my x16 card won't work?" and other similar questions abound.

[svmlegacy]

5 minutes ago, SocraticShooter said:

I bought the new Alienware Ryzen PC at the beginning of the pandemic because I knew I was going to be at home a lot more and did not have enough saved up yet to build a new PC without using Dell's financing. I have been back and forth with Dell for awhile, long enough to be out of the return window, about this PC. Since the beginning, the GPU was only running at 3.0 x8 even though both the card and motherboard was supposed to be capable of x16. They sent a tech out to replace the graphics card today but yesterday I was told by a representative that my motherboard only had 2 x8 slots, no x16, and she sent a link to the tech specs ( https://www.dell.com/support/manuals/us/en/19/alienware-aurora-r10-desktop/alienware-aurora-ryzen-setup-and-specifications/ports-and-connectors?guid=guid-f8c43812-78d4-4e7f-91e3-7360e814ac28&lang=en-us ). I clicked on the link and it showed the same thing as it did when I ordered the PC, 2 x16 slots. I know that it makes a minuscule difference to have x16, especially with a 2060 super, but even though I would never notice the difference in practice I feel like I should have gotten what I paid for. When the tech replaced the graphics card this morning I looked at the motherboard and saw both of the larger slots were marked clearly as x8. The representative I am talking to now said that they can function as both x8 and x16 but I'm pretty sure she's confusing the difference between an x8 slot being able to function with a x16 card and the slot actually providing all 16 lanes the card is able to utilize. I know it makes negligible difference in performance and I am now out of the return window (though I have been in contact about this issue with Dell since the 3rd or 4th day I had the PC) but am I wrong to keep pushing this issue since I paid for x16 slots? If not, how can I proceed with them to try and find a remedy since they haven't had tech representatives who are knowledgeable enough to even address the issue?

What do you expect to happen as a remedy?

 

There is a difference between the size and electrical connections of a PCIe connection. Physical x16 slots do exist with only x8 connected electrically. You can see if this is the case, as the connector will only have contacts for half it's length.

 

You seemed to have gotten 2x PCIe x16 physical slots. The site is vague, and doesn't specify that they are x16 electrically.

There is a benefit to this: You can install a graphics card, which would otherwise not fit in an x8 slot.

 

Your 2060 will operate fine in x8 mode. I'm sure if you benchmark it, it will perform on par with other 2060's of similar spec.

 

Only push the system if you want to return the system entirely. If there's no physical connection in the motherboard, there's nothing the technicians can do.

 

1 minute ago, SocraticShooter said:

After looking through the pdf manual I found this line, "Connect a PCI-Express card such as graphics, audio, or network card to enhance the capabilities of your computer. For optimal graphics performance, use a PCI-Express X16 slot for connecting the graphics card. NOTE: The PCI-Express X16 slot works at X8 lanes only."

 

This is only in the pdf download of the manual, so the specs advertised when I purchased it only said x16 slots and I never imagined a 570 board would not come with a PCI slot utilizing 16 lanes. This seems fairly deceptive.

alienware-aurora-r10-desktop_users-guide_en-us.pdf 2.31 MB · 0 downloads

I don't see where it's advertised as a 570 board. The same PDF contains this:

 

 

It's shown to have a B550 chipset, which may have restrictions on direct PCIe lane allocations (Specifically for graphics cards.) Dell may have chosen this route to allow somewhat usable crossfire support.

[SocraticShooter]

11 minutes ago, zeusthemoose said:

You are not wrong at all. You paid for 2 x16 and didn’t get it. If they won’t to anything else to fix it (replacing motherboard) return it. There are other system builders who do financing and give you what you paid for.

So, I posted below when I read further in the pdf manual...they added a "note" which said the x16 lanes only run at x8. It wasn't on the website, even when looking at the manual on the website (which I did before buying) it still says 2 x16 like shown in the picture from the original post. 

 

Also, I wanted to go with a different company which had better airflow and more customization so I wasn't getting manufacturer specific components but credit wise Dell was the only place I got approved for enough to make a purchase.

[SocraticShooter]

5 minutes ago, svmlegacy said:

What do you expect to happen as a remedy?

 

There is a difference between the size and electrical connections of a PCIe connection. Physical x16 slots do exist with only x8 connected electrically. You can see if this is the case, as the connector will only have contacts for half it's length.

 

You seemed to have gotten 2x PCIe x16 physical slots. The site is vague, and doesn't specify that they are x16 electrically.

There is a benefit to this: You can install a graphics card, which would otherwise not fit in an x8 slot.

 

Your 2060 will operate fine in x8 mode. I'm sure if you benchmark it, it will perform on par with other 2060's of similar spec.

 

Only push the system if you want to return the system entirely. If there's no physical connection in the motherboard, there's nothing the technicians can do.

 

I don't see where it's advertised as a 570 board. The same PDF contains this:

 

 

It's shown to have a B550 chipset, which may have restrictions on direct PCIe lane allocations (Specifically for graphics cards.) Dell may have chosen this route to allow somewhat usable crossfire support.

Sorry, not 570...but still a new AM4 board and they hid the information about the electrical PCIe lanes in a note in the pdf manual download, not even in the website version of the manual when you can navigate the sections easily.

[svmlegacy]

Just now, SocraticShooter said:

Sorry, not 570...but still a new AM4 board and they hid the information about the electrical PCIe lanes in a note in the pdf manual download, not even in the website version of the manual when you can navigate the sections easily.

This is a common problem, even for consumer motherboards. It was a bigger deal ~10 years ago, I have a couple motherboards with x16 slots running x4 connections. BIOS options switched x16 to x8/x8, etc... It's a case of RTFM for every motherboard if you're really concerned about having full bandwidth on every slot.

[SocraticShooter]

15 minutes ago, svmlegacy said:

This is a common problem, even for consumer motherboards. It was a bigger deal ~10 years ago, I have a couple motherboards with x16 slots running x4 connections. BIOS options switched x16 to x8/x8, etc... It's a case of RTFM for every motherboard if you're really concerned about having full bandwidth on every slot.

Seems kind of messed up. Like if I bought a car advertised as a V6 and then when I got it they were like, if you looked in the service manual it told you that it only had 4 cylinders and the block was a V6 so we could fit the other parts in without having to manufacture separate parts.

[svmlegacy]

3 minutes ago, SocraticShooter said:

Seems kind of messed up. Like if I bought a car advertised as a V6 and then when I got it they were like, if you looked in the service manual it told you that it only had 4 cylinders and the block was a V6 so we could fit the other parts in without having to manufacture separate parts.

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a15349070/block-party-creating-a-v-6-by-declaring-two-cylinders-redundant/

 

This isn't even that bad. Run some benchmarks and see if your GPU is under-performing. I'd be very surprised if it was. My GTX 780 used to run on PCIe 2.0 x16, and saw no gain going to 3.0. That's the same doubling in bandwidth, and at a similar power level to the 2060. This is more like not having the intercooler hood on a non-turbo Subaru.

[SocraticShooter]

1 minute ago, svmlegacy said:

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a15349070/block-party-creating-a-v-6-by-declaring-two-cylinders-redundant/

 

This isn't even that bad. Run some benchmarks and see if your GPU is under-performing. I'd be very surprised if it was. My GTX 780 used to run on PCIe 2.0 x16, and saw no gain going to 3.0. That's the same doubling in bandwidth, and at a similar power level to the 2060. This is more like not having the intercooler hood on a non-turbo Subaru.

I'm not worried that it is affecting performance but I decided on this model so I would have a motherboard I could use for awhile, needing to only upgrade gpu, cpu and stuff for 5-6 years; the next generation of graphics cards might better saturate 16 lanes and games designed in the next few years might be able to take advantage of them. 

 

Also, the fact that for 2 months even the tech support people agreed it was supposed to be running at x16 and replaced both the graphics card and motherboard to help rectify that problem goes to show that they had hidden this info pretty well.