Dell Fixed Workstations or something similar

[kingarthur86]

Hi everyone,

 

I am going to buy / build a workstation without any peripherials. I do already have all peripherials connected to my current mobile workstation (more details below), so the new workstation will replace the old one and the old one will be used as a spare one and if I need it outside home.

 

Budget: £2500 (GBP)

Country: United Kingdom

Games, programs or workloads that it will be used for:

 

The workstation will be used mainly for work, but also for typical home use (internet, music, movies, documents). I hardly ever play games, and if I do then I play some older ones like Doom3, so graphics is not a priority in my case.

 

I work in programming and sometimes prepare graphics(2D) in Photoshop. I have a lot of applications opened at one time:
- several web browsers for testing applications. Each of them has dozen of tabs opened
- development environments (IDE) (also several windows) and simpler code editors
- Photoshop and some simpler graphics programs (2D graphics at the moment)
- local database servers (e.g. MySQL, MsSQL)
- local HTTP servers (e.g. Apache)
- several virtual machines (Virtualbox)
- Office and PDF files
- plus background music and a few other smaller applications

 

Other details: 

 

I am currently using the Dell Precision M6700 mobile workstation (i7-3920XM, 32 GB RAM, Nvidia K3000M, 256GB SSD + 1TB HDD), which is almost always connected to the docking station, and 2 x 27-inch monitors, a printer, a keyboard and mouse. I am very happy with this configuration, the performance is sufficient for my needs and I have not had any issues so far. I would like to buy a new station, because I bought the current one in 2012 and despite the fact that it does not cause any problems, it is already old equipment and the risk of failure, unfortunately, is increasing every day, and I cannot afford a break from work, because this is a source of my income.

 

Therefore, I mainly care about reliability, durability, low failure rate, comfortable work for many hours and large expansion possibilities in the future. I am not going to do any overclocking and ideally I would like to use new machine for as long as the current one (only replace components in the future if higher performance needed).

 

Due to my good experience with Dell, I mainly consider their workstations (but not mobile this time) - 5820, 7820 and 7920.
Of course, I am aware that buying any of the above-mentioned new ones will exceede my budget, therefore I would consider only refurbished models with low-end configurations.

 

I thought of repeating the same steps that I did 8 years ago with my Precision M6700. Namely, I bought refurbished model about half a year after the M6700 came out. The new model cost about £3000, while I bought the weakest configuration (refurbished from Dell partner - i5 CPU, 8GB RAM and AMD M6000 graphics card if I remember correctly)  for about £1000. The configuration at that time was sufficient for me (I only added a new SSD), and a few years later I replaced the CPU, GPU and RAM - all at much lower cost. My Dell mobile workstation have been working fine without any issues until now.

And I think that I would do the same now, i.e. I would buy one of the above-mentioned 3 models (refurbished) in a configuration that is not weaker in performance than my current eight-year old station, and a few years later I would replace CPU and GPU ( available at a much lower price) if needed.

 

What do you think of it?
Does it even make sense to consider dual-processor models (7820 and 7920) - they are much more expensive?
Given the above criteria, would you go for it, or would you rather prefer to buy different make (i.e. HP) or build workstation yourself?
Will it be as reliable and low-risk as Dell stations when building it myself?

I assume that motherboard and chassis are most important parts, because they set further expansion limits and durability. If I decide to build workstation myself what motherboard and chassis would you recommend ?

 

Thanks in advance for any help.

 

[databreach]

For your workloads and generally you won't even benefit from dual cpu systems. My dad bougth one thinking he would get double the performance but in most of his workloads (v-ray, lumion and other 3d stuff). He doesn't benefit from it and it's not optimal at all considering you need so much RAM in order to get the two CPUs working.

Again, dell workstations are great but are also limited in expandability (not much aside from ram and gpu but no cpu upgrades). So, you should consider buying something yourself. For virtualization, I would consider going with something that has high core counts (for exemple a ryzen 9 3900x) and pair that with a 2080 or something similar. Get an X570 mobo from a good vbrand (MSI, AORUS, Asus) and 32gb of high speed RAM plus a beefy PSU (650W~750W).

Again, Dell is a pretty good brand and I own a precision M4600 myself (though it's not the same anymore) and I run linux on it because windows just became too much for the hard drive (5.4k RPM WD drive). I won't advise you to buy prebuilt because you're getting less performance but for more money.

[kingarthur86]

40 minutes ago, databreach said:

For your workloads and generally you won't even benefit from dual cpu systems. My dad bougth one thinking he would get double the performance but in most of his workloads (v-ray, lumion and other 3d stuff). He doesn't benefit from it and it's not optimal at all considering you need so much RAM in order to get the two CPUs working.

Again, dell workstations are great but are also limited in expandability (not much aside from ram and gpu but no cpu upgrades). So, you should consider buying something yourself. For virtualization, I would consider going with something that has high core counts (for exemple a ryzen 9 3900x) and pair that with a 2080 or something similar. Get an X570 mobo from a good vbrand (MSI, AORUS, Asus) and 32gb of high speed RAM plus a beefy PSU (650W~750W).

Again, Dell is a pretty good brand and I own a precision M4600 myself (though it's not the same anymore) and I run linux on it because windows just became too much for the hard drive (5.4k RPM WD drive). I won't advise you to buy prebuilt because you're getting less performance but for more money.

@databreach Thanks for your input. After reading your comment and further studying I have decided to not consider dual cpu systems anymore.

 

Therefore, the only option left from Dell is Precision T5820. Ideally I would buy barebones only, like in this auction https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Dell-Precision-5820-Tower-T5820-Barebones-950W-PSU-Motherboard-M-2-Module-bay/303511206626?hash=item46aaad7ae2:g:-agAAOSw1mdeZ6-v and buy CPU, GPU, RAM and HDD myself.

 

My knowledge around hardware is rather limited, but I read a few years ago info that AMD cpus have high temperature under high workload and that's why Intel is preferred choice for workstations, is this still true statement with cpu you recommended?

 

Also, could you elaborate more on Dell's limited expandability (CPU) ?  I thought in most cases it is one generation of processors per socket. Is this what you mean by limited expandability in Dell workstation? I noticed that AM4 supports both 2nd and 3rd generations of Ryzen, so two generations, but Ryzen Threadripper uses different socket, so AM4 is limited as well. Am I correct?

 

 

[databreach]

29 minutes ago, kingarthur86 said:

@databreach Thanks for your input. After reading your comment and further studying I have decided to not consider dual cpu systems anymore.

 

Therefore, the only option left from Dell is Precision T5820. Ideally I would buy barebones only, like in this auction https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Dell-Precision-5820-Tower-T5820-Barebones-950W-PSU-Motherboard-M-2-Module-bay/303511206626?hash=item46aaad7ae2:g:-agAAOSw1mdeZ6-v and buy CPU, GPU, RAM and HDD myself.

 

My knowledge around hardware is rather limited, but I read a few years ago info that AMD cpus have high temperature under high workload and that's why Intel is preferred choice for workstations, is this still true statement with cpu you recommended?

 

Also, could you elaborate more on Dell's limited expandability (CPU) ?  I thought in most cases it is one generation of processors per socket. Is this what you mean by limited expandability in Dell workstation? I noticed that AM4 supports both 2nd and 3rd generations of Ryzen, so two generations, but Ryzen Threadripper uses different socket, so AM4 is limited as well. Am I correct?

 

 

I think the Xeon W run far more hotter and that's statement is rather not correct. Plus the price difference is HUGE and for the same price of an 8 core xeon W you can get a ryzen 9 so i don't advise you buy that tower because motherboard won't let you upgrade to that. Like the price of a good Xeon W processor is your budget lol and they have higher TDPs which means more power consumption and ultimately more heat generated. Ryzen CPUs are't that hungry and most of them run cooler i9-9900K and perform far better for productibity workloads just lookup comparisons. AM4 will also receive a 4th generation soon but only on high-end X570 mobos. So consider that. Also the Xeon® W-3245 is so expensive that you can get a full system with the 3950x for the price of that single chip.

[databreach]

39 minutes ago, kingarthur86 said:

@databreach Thanks for your input. After reading your comment and further studying I have decided to not consider dual cpu systems anymore.

 

Therefore, the only option left from Dell is Precision T5820. Ideally I would buy barebones only, like in this auction https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Dell-Precision-5820-Tower-T5820-Barebones-950W-PSU-Motherboard-M-2-Module-bay/303511206626?hash=item46aaad7ae2:g:-agAAOSw1mdeZ6-v and buy CPU, GPU, RAM and HDD myself.

 

My knowledge around hardware is rather limited, but I read a few years ago info that AMD cpus have high temperature under high workload and that's why Intel is preferred choice for workstations, is this still true statement with cpu you recommended?

 

Also, could you elaborate more on Dell's limited expandability (CPU) ?  I thought in most cases it is one generation of processors per socket. Is this what you mean by limited expandability in Dell workstation? I noticed that AM4 supports both 2nd and 3rd generations of Ryzen, so two generations, but Ryzen Threadripper uses different socket, so AM4 is limited as well. Am I correct?

 

 

Also, Ryzen has one socket for 4 generatons and it is the AM4 socket. You could buy a 1st gen ryzen with high end X570 mobo and then upgrade for 2nd and 3rd and 4th.

[kingarthur86]

On 5/9/2020 at 5:26 PM, databreach said:

I think the Xeon W run far more hotter and that's statement is rather not correct. Plus the price difference is HUGE and for the same price of an 8 core xeon W you can get a ryzen 9 so i don't advise you buy that tower because motherboard won't let you upgrade to that. Like the price of a good Xeon W processor is your budget lol and they have higher TDPs which means more power consumption and ultimately more heat generated. Ryzen CPUs are't that hungry and most of them run cooler i9-9900K and perform far better for productibity workloads just lookup comparisons. AM4 will also receive a 4th generation soon but only on high-end X570 mobos. So consider that. Also the Xeon® W-3245 is so expensive that you can get a full system with the 3950x for the price of that single chip.

Well, it is a fact that price of Intel processors is higher than AMD (sometimes much higher - Xeon) for the same performance, but I was rather thinking of Precision T5820 version based on Intel X299 chipset (i5, i7, i9) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGA_2066 . 

 

For example:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Dell-Precision-5820-Intel-i7-9800X-2GB-NVidia-P620-32GB-DDR4-256GB-NVMe-1TB/202960573798?hash=item2f41649566:g:-hsAAOSw94Ba~anC

 

Obviously, I will have better performance and new parts for the same price, but on the other hand I will spend a lot of time on trying to find components I need and then on assembling it (time is money). Therefore, I will probably spend more money in total than if I buy ready to use workstation from good brand. Also, I am not experienced in assemblying hardware (I myself replaced cpu and gpu in my M6700 though), so I will be worried if I did it correctly and in the meantime did not damage anything.

 

Anyway, I think you convinced me to take the risk and try to build workstation myself. Also, you convinced me to build it on AM4 and X570 based motherboard (AMD Ryzen CPU family). Therefore, I will have to choose good motherboard and case. I think the other parts are not as important for me as these two for now (especially motherboard). I could buy some low end Ryzen CPU (as long as it is faster than my i73920XM) and upgrade it in the future if needed (same with GPU, I need something not worse than my current Quadro K3000M).

 

Basically, I would like save some money from my budget (£2500) if possible, but again, I do not want to save on reliability, durability and extendability. I am not going to overclock and I do not want to use any complex cooling systems (only simple radiators and fans).

 

Also, I am not in a hurry, so if there will be anything new on the market soon that is worth waiting then I will wait (I had this thought while looking at MSI motherboards - I think they are about to release this one https://www.msi.com/Motherboard/MAG-X570-TOMAHAWK-WIFI/{product_full_support_link}).

 

I looked at 3 brands recommended (MSI, AORUS (Gigabyte premium product) and Asus) and have a headache. There are so many models based on X570 and I have no idea what is best for me. The only thing I am sure is that I do not want anything micro or mini, so I consider only standard ATX and bigger.

 

Some models that caught my attention:

 

https://www.asus.com/uk/Commercial-Servers-Workstations/Pro-WS-X570-ACE/  - this one specifically designed for workstation, so maybe this is the one for me?

 

https://www.asus.com/uk/Motherboards/PRIME-X570-PRO/ - for professionals

 

https://www.gigabyte.com/Motherboard/X570-UD-rev-10#kf - ultra durable

 

https://www.gigabyte.com/Motherboard/X570-AORUS-MASTER-rev-1x#kf - heard some good opinions

 

Some MSI models:

https://uk.msi.com/Motherboard/PRESTIGE-X570-CREATION

https://uk.msi.com/Motherboard/X570-A-PRO

https://uk.msi.com/Motherboard/MEG-X570-ACE

https://uk.msi.com/Motherboard/MEG-X570-UNIFY

 

Could you guys tell me which one would you choose and why? Or perhaps something not from my list?

 

 

With regards to case I am a big fan of Dell T5820 case. I really like the design and it seems to be durable and configurable as well. I like the fact there is access to drive bays in front, so one may replace HDD without opening the case. Unfortunately, as far as I know, only Dell mobos fit their case.

 

I looked around a bit and could not find similar case. If you know good case like Dell then let me know, please. What do you think about this one?

 

https://www.fractal-design.com/products/cases/define/define-7/black/

 

 

I am not sure if I should ask these questions here or should I rather start new topic per component in correct category? If the latter then I apologize for making a mess and I will move it into correct categories if you ask me to do so.

[databreach]

For motherboards, This Asus one is great https://www.asus.com/uk/Commercial-Servers-Workstations/Pro-WS-X570-ACE/ But I think it's pretty overkill, you can still go for it if you have the money, I don't recommend the UD model from Gigabyte, it's one of the cheaper ones and they cut down some corners on it I/O wise. I would recommend the X570 ACE from MSI and the Prestige Creation they are good boards and it all come downs to you. I won't go with the X570-A-Pro because it's also entry-level boards. The define 7 is a great case but be aware that if you choose the Prestige creation is a little too big and won't fit so that probably eliminates it. Also this list can help you: https://uk.pcpartpicker.com/list/C8QNFG

Note that I didn't include a case in the parts list but you can swap out the 3950x for the 3900x and still get the define R7 or the Lian-Li PC-O11 Dynamic See this one too:

PCPartPicker Part List

Type	Item	Price
CPU	AMD Ryzen 9 3950X 3.5 GHz 16-Core Processor	£689.97 @ CCL Computers
Motherboard	MSI MEG X570 ACE ATX AM4 Motherboard	£329.99 @ Box Limited
Memory	Crucial Ballistix RGB 32 GB (2 x 16 GB) DDR4-3600 Memory	£178.99 @ Amazon UK
Video Card	MSI GeForce RTX 2080 Ti 11 GB GAMING X TRIO Video Card	£1217.30 @ CCL Computers
Case	Lian Li PC-O11 Dynamic ATX Full Tower Case	£114.18 @ CCL Computers
Power Supply	Corsair RM (2019) 850 W 80+ Gold Certified Fully Modular ATX Power Supply	£99.90 @ Amazon UK
	Prices include shipping, taxes, rebates, and discounts
	Total	£2630.33
	Generated by PCPartPicker 2020-05-11 14:26 BST+0100

 

[databreach]

Quote

I am not sure if I should ask these questions here or should I rather start new topic per component in correct category? If the latter then I apologize for making a mess and I will move it into correct categories if you ask me to do so.

No, it's fine. It still counts as "planning". So, I guess it's still a valid category for this topic.

[kingarthur86]

@databreach  Thanks for your help so far, I really appreciate it.

 

If I had to build PC now I would go with something similar to your part list (I would go for different graphics card though - I think something cheaper would be enough for me given I hardly ever play games), but I just had another thought.

 

I'm not entirely convinced whether I should buy it now or wait for new CPUs and sockets release, which according to sources will take  place this year - https://www.notebookcheck.net/Ryzen-4000-and-X670-to-launch-in-late-2020-Socket-AM5-to-debut-with-Ryzen-5000.446653.0.html . This will likely cause a price drop for current CPUs.

 

My point is that I don't have to buy right now, because I have my old workstation, so I might even wait until the end of the year (but no longer) if justified (better parts in the same budget).

 

I'm referring to sTRX4 socket - https://www.techspot.com/news/82734-amd-commits-long-term-support-strx4-cpu-socket.html . Motherboards based on this socket are currently very expensive and compatible processors are even more expensive, so I certainly can't afford it right now. However, if it were cheaper by the end of the year due to the release of the new CPUs, so the motherboard and the weakest Threadripper 3960X would not exceed my budget (the budget may be a bit larger in a few months as well).

 

Do you think it is worth waiting  a few months and go for sTRX4?
Or not, because prices will not fall so quickly (I am not sure whether prices dropped after previous release)?

[databreach]

1 hour ago, kingarthur86 said:

@databreach  Thanks for your help so far, I really appreciate it.

 

If I had to build PC now I would go with something similar to your part list (I would go for different graphics card though - I think something cheaper would be enough for me given I hardly ever play games), but I just had another thought.

 

I'm not entirely convinced whether I should buy it now or wait for new CPUs and sockets release, which according to sources will take  place this year - https://www.notebookcheck.net/Ryzen-4000-and-X670-to-launch-in-late-2020-Socket-AM5-to-debut-with-Ryzen-5000.446653.0.html . This will likely cause a price drop for current CPUs.

 

My point is that I don't have to buy right now, because I have my old workstation, so I might even wait until the end of the year (but no longer) if justified (better parts in the same budget).

 

I'm referring to sTRX4 socket - https://www.techspot.com/news/82734-amd-commits-long-term-support-strx4-cpu-socket.html . Motherboards based on this socket are currently very expensive and compatible processors are even more expensive, so I certainly can't afford it right now. However, if it were cheaper by the end of the year due to the release of the new CPUs, so the motherboard and the weakest Threadripper 3960X would not exceed my budget (the budget may be a bit larger in a few months as well).

 

Do you think it is worth waiting  a few months and go for sTRX4?
Or not, because prices will not fall so quickly (I am not sure whether prices dropped after previous release)?

I'm gona say that waiting would be benefitial if you plan on buying 4thgen or 3rd gen if there's a significant price difference. sTRX4 is just such an expensive platform with acceptable systems starting at 4000£-5000£ but if you've got some money for it it's totally worth it if you plan on doing some SERIOUS HEAVY work. My biggest concern is mtherboard prices as those double on this platform. I don't know if you can adapt this budget into a TRX4 build but I never investigated those kinda builds that much. On that note, Good night, I really could use some sleep rn.