amd AMD series naming

[Revanth A]

Hi,

This might be a very basic questions, but i want to know how AMD name their series of processors and by name how we will be knowing which one is better and which segment it falls

 

1. Example by name itself you can say Intel i9 will be a better option than Intel i3 even if you dont know the spec of it similar to that how AMD names it processor?
2. Also Intel has pin Compatibility in terms of generation (, 5th gen,8th gen)  or  coffee lake / LGA 1151,  similar to that that while choosing motherboard for AMD what are the major pin Compatibility versions are there what which is the most preferred one?
3. Now a days in terms of spec and performance AMD is showing a good stats but still many people go for intel is there any reason behind it like (reliability)?
4. Why in most motherboards use DIMM slots for ram and why SO-DIMM is not there in most of the motherboard even in mini/micro ATX motherboards? 
5. Why single power supply motherboards are not common, i have been using a mini ATX motherboard with intel i7 8th gen 1151LGA socket, 2xSo-Dimm slots, 1050ti GPU, 2x M.2  with all these specs options the motherboard takes only single 12V input and itself generates other required voltages like 3.3, 5 etc., why this option is not available in any of the motherboards in common, technically speaking its the easiest option in customer [point of view

If someone can give a detailed explanation it will be better, Thanks in advance!   { since typing in a hurry-bury manner kindly neglect the typo mistakes if any :-)}

[Semper]

I I understand what you're asking correctly, AMD uses a similar naming method, Ryzen 3, 5, 7, 9, Threadripper, and Epyc. You need to understand, however, that "better" is relative to the task at hand. If you're building an HTPC, an i9 is very much a worse option than an i3 or i5. Not only would it be overqualified for the job, but it would also carry a significantly higher price on it, as well as power consumption, which means more heat dissipation would be needed. Rabbit hole issues like that arise with a mismatched solution to your use case.

2. Ryzen to-date all runs on the same socket, AM4. That is subject to change some time after 2020 [indefinite] (AM4 socked compatibility only being explicitly road mapped through 2020) Chipset and motherboard compatibility does vary, however. Threadripper does not share true compatibility as the AM4 socket does, however I do not know enough about it to tell you exactly how. I have very, very limited knowledge on Epyc and socket compatibility.

Spoiler

3. Intel still holds the numbers for raw performance. Ryzen is very quickly closing that gap, however, and doing it as a lower price point. Build quality and support from motherboard vendors has increased exponentially since first gen Ryzen, so there shouldn't be any "this is more reliable than that" outside of expected failure rates. As always, some workloads (and more granular, some software applications/suites) are better suited to a certain platform, so that needs to be taken into consideration when making a decision.

4. This will be a wholly incomplete answer, as I have a very high (low? - limited in whatever way you look at it) level of understanding of this. Largely, it comes down to feature sets (I.E. I don't believe there's any ECC SODIMM, ETC), and capacity; smaller outline, less space.

5. I'm unable to answer this one in any capacity, this is beyond my technical knowledge, and a question I've never really asked myself, seen asked, or considered a question that needed to be asked.

[Jurrunio]

1. AMD calls them (from slowest to fastest of the same model year) Athlon, Ryzen 3, Ryzen 5, Ryzen 7, Ryzen 9 and Ryzen Threadripper.

 

2. Excluding BIOS update requirements, AMD use socket names like FM2, AM3 and AM3+. Currently consumer Ryzen stuff use AM4, Threadripper use TR4 and sTRX4 even though both are derived from the server socket SP3 with the same pin count. If Kaby Lake to Coffee Lake taught us anything, is that you should not read compatiblity with socket used.

 

3. They just want the same brand regardless, they really need max single core performance or pricing is completely screwed in their country.

 

4. Because desktops are just reusing server technology and lack push to use SODIMM in many cases. Servers need larger DIMMs to fit all their memory chips, while consumer desktops use the same machines for producing server DIMMs as theirs. Since most desktops use DIMMs, high performance memory kits are mostly made on DIMMs so to make small desktops benefit from those, they also take DIMMs. There are mITX boards that use SODIMM, e.g. Asrock's X99 and X299 ITX board since they are on quad channel platforms and need 4 sticks to maximize performance. Only way to fit 4 sticks on mITX is to use SODIMM, even if it means high performance ones are really hard to come by.

 

5. Intel is thinking to do that, but we currently still use 5V and 3.3V to power SATA drives, some ICs on the board (e.g. some powerstages run on 5V) and the standby rail (so it doesn't have to run all voltage rails when turned off to prepare for turn-on command)

[Master Disaster]

1, 2 ,3 & 4 have been covered.

 

5) No, you're wrong. Your board takes a 24 pin power connector from the PSU and if you look at the pinout for that connector you'll see it contains all the voltages needed by the board. Boards don't have transformers and cannot "generate required voltages".

 

[Revanth A]

52 minutes ago, Master Disaster said:

1, 2 ,3 & 4 have been covered.

 

5) No, you're wrong. Your board takes a 24 pin power connector from the PSU and if you look at the pinout for that connector you'll see it contains all the voltages needed by the board. Boards don't have transformers and cannot "generate required voltages".

 

Hi @Master Disaster my motherboard takes only two connector input which is 12V Dc positive and ground

[Revanth A]

1 hour ago, Semper said:

I I understand what you're asking correctly, AMD uses a similar naming method, Ryzen 3, 5, 7, 9, Threadripper, and Epyc. You need to understand, however, that "better" is relative to the task at hand. If you're building an HTPC, an i9 is very much a worse option than an i3 or i5. Not only would it be overqualified for the job, but it would also carry a significantly higher price on it, as well as power consumption, which means more heat dissipation would be needed. Rabbit hole issues like that arise with a mismatched solution to your use case.

2. Ryzen to-date all runs on the same socket, AM4. That is subject to change some time after 2020 [indefinite] (AM4 socked compatibility only being explicitly road mapped through 2020) Chipset and motherboard compatibility does vary, however. Threadripper does not share true compatibility as the AM4 socket does, however I do not know enough about it to tell you exactly how. I have very, very limited knowledge on Epyc and socket compatibility.

  Reveal hidden contents

3. Intel still holds the numbers for raw performance. Ryzen is very quickly closing that gap, however, and doing it as a lower price point. Build quality and support from motherboard vendors has increased exponentially since first gen Ryzen, so there shouldn't be any "this is more reliable than that" outside of expected failure rates. As always, some workloads (and more granular, some software applications/suites) are better suited to a certain platform, so that needs to be taken into consideration when making a decision.

4. This will be a wholly incomplete answer, as I have a very high (low? - limited in whatever way you look at it) level of understanding of this. Largely, it comes down to feature sets (I.E. I don't believe there's any ECC SODIMM, ETC), and capacity; smaller outline, less space.

5. I'm unable to answer this one in any capacity, this is beyond my technical knowledge, and a question I've never really asked myself, seen asked, or considered a question that needed to be asked.

@Semper Thanks for your comments!

[Revanth A]

1 hour ago, Jurrunio said:

1. AMD calls them (from slowest to fastest of the same model year) Athlon, Ryzen 3, Ryzen 5, Ryzen 7, Ryzen 9 and Ryzen Threadripper.

 

2. Excluding BIOS update requirements, AMD use socket names like FM2, AM3 and AM3+. Currently consumer Ryzen stuff use AM4, Threadripper use TR4 and sTRX4 even though both are derived from the server socket SP3 with the same pin count. If Kaby Lake to Coffee Lake taught us anything, is that you should not read compatiblity with socket used.

 

3. They just want the same brand regardless, they really need max single core performance or pricing is completely screwed in their country.

 

4. Because desktops are just reusing server technology and lack push to use SODIMM in many cases. Servers need larger DIMMs to fit all their memory chips, while consumer desktops use the same machines for producing server DIMMs as theirs. Since most desktops use DIMMs, high performance memory kits are mostly made on DIMMs so to make small desktops benefit from those, they also take DIMMs. There are mITX boards that use SODIMM, e.g. Asrock's X99 and X299 ITX board since they are on quad channel platforms and need 4 sticks to maximize performance. Only way to fit 4 sticks on mITX is to use SODIMM, even if it means high performance ones are really hard to come by.

 

5. Intel is thinking to do that, but we currently still use 5V and 3.3V to power SATA drives, some ICs on the board (e.g. some powerstages run on 5V) and the standby rail (so it doesn't have to run all voltage rails when turned off to prepare for turn-on command)

@Jurrunio Thanks for you comments!

 

 "reusability from server technology and high Performance" ,   Why DIMM has high performance than SO-DIMM type?

 

my doubt was, motherboard manufactures could have take a single multi-channel voltage regulators and can generated multiple voltage levels needed by cpu and other parts of motherboard , even in standby mode they can turn off unwanted voltage levels by an enable signal, and thats what my motherboard manufacturer does, it would been a simple less complicated and less space consuming process (Now a days component become very small than the 24 pin power connector.

 

The reason why iam asking this is iam a hardware engineer ( Electronics) and i realize that the manufacturers have some reason behind it for not going with single power supply and i just want to know it.

[Jurrunio]

35 minutes ago, Revanth A said:

Hi @Master Disaster my motherboard takes only two connector input which is 12V Dc positive and ground

then what board is that?

 

15 minutes ago, Revanth A said:

 "reusability from server technology and high Performance" ,   Why DIMM has high performance than SO-DIMM type?

because of high performance memory dies on them. btw SODIMM has different lengths of traces in the PCB for each memory die (and there are always multiples of 8 memory dies used in each stick) which makes reaching high performance more difficult.

 

15 minutes ago, Revanth A said:

my doubt was, motherboard manufactures could have take a single multi-channel voltage regulators and can generated multiple voltage levels needed by cpu and other parts of motherboard , even in standby mode they can turn off unwanted voltage levels by an enable signal, and thats what my motherboard manufacturer does, it would been a simple less complicated and less space consuming process (Now a days component become very small than the 24 pin power connector.

 

The reason why iam asking this is iam a hardware engineer ( Electronics) and i realize that the manufacturers have some reason behind it for not going with single power supply and i just want to know it.

Back when the current ATX spec is announced (before 21st century) PCs draw less power and the 2 lower voltage rails are used way more than they are today, the 5V rail for example was responsible for powering the CPU. Keeping 5V and 3.3V rail in place is also for maintaining compatiblilty. Imagine telling people that their storage drives need an extra power brick because they run on 5V, not 12V.

[Revanth A]

30 minutes ago, Jurrunio said:

then what board is that?

 

because of high performance memory dies on them. btw SODIMM has different lengths of traces in the PCB for each memory die (and there are always multiples of 8 memory dies used in each stick) which makes reaching high performance more difficult.

 

Back when the current ATX spec is announced (before 21st century) PCs draw less power and the 2 lower voltage rails are used way more than they are today, the 5V rail for example was responsible for powering the CPU. Keeping 5V and 3.3V rail in place is also for maintaining compatiblilty. Imagine telling people that their storage drives need an extra power brick because they run on 5V, not 12V.

Cool!

[Revanth A]

33 minutes ago, Jurrunio said:

then what board is that?

 

because of high performance memory dies on them. btw SODIMM has different lengths of traces in the PCB for each memory die (and there are always multiples of 8 memory dies used in each stick) which makes reaching high performance more difficult.

 

Back when the current ATX spec is announced (before 21st century) PCs draw less power and the 2 lower voltage rails are used way more than they are today, the 5V rail for example was responsible for powering the CPU. Keeping 5V and 3.3V rail in place is also for maintaining compatiblilty. Imagine telling people that their storage drives need an extra power brick because they run on 5V, not 12V.

@Jurrunio what are these Ryzen 3000 series and 2000 series means actually, 

i can see ryzen 9 3rd gen 3000 series ,

in which i know ryzen 9 is the latest one , 3rd gen means wht it signifies also what does the 3000 series or the 2000 series means?  

[Master Disaster]

17 minutes ago, Revanth A said:

@Jurrunio what are these Ryzen 3000 series and 2000 series means actually, 

i can see ryzen 9 3rd gen 3000 series ,

in which i know ryzen 9 is the latest one , 3rd gen means wht it signifies also what does the 3000 series or the 2000 series means?  

3, 5, 7 & 9 is equivilent to Intels 3, 5, 7 & 9.

 

1000 is the first gen, 2000 is the second gen etc etc.

1 hour ago, Revanth A said:

Hi @Master Disaster my motherboard takes only two connector input which is 12V Dc positive and ground

I assure you it doesn't. All boards need 12v+, 12v-, 5v & 3.3v and unless it has a transformer built onto the board its getting them from the PSU.

[Revanth A]

@Master Disaster Thanks for the comment! regarding the power  that's what iam saying , in my motherboard they all the DC/DC converters to give all voltage levels 3.3V 5V -12 ect., are there, but not why other manufactures have it inbuilt. and i got my answer now. 

 

Thanks for the clarification regarding generation in ryzen series

[Master Disaster]

7 minutes ago, Revanth A said:

@Master Disaster Thanks for the comment! regarding the power  that's what iam saying , in my motherboard they all the DC/DC converters to give all voltage levels 3.3V 5V -12 ect., are there, but not why other manufactures have it inbuilt. and i got my answer now. 

 

Thanks for the clarification regarding generation in ryzen series

Can I ask what your motherboard model is?

[Revanth A]

Its a custom made one in India.

[Master Disaster]

29 minutes ago, Revanth A said:

Its a custom made one in India.

Hmmm, if you say so.

 

 

All those chokes are there to reduce the 3.3v rail to around 1.4v that's required by the CPU. That's 10 chokes, all kicking out heat and taking space on the board to half the 3.3v line.

 

You claim to have a custom board that somehow can take 12v and make it 5v and 3.3v? Yeah, its simply not possible without a transformer. Also if your board is only taking in 12v where exactly is it pulling -12v from?

 

Me thinks someone is lying.

[Revanth A]

@Master Disaster, first DC POWER won't work with transformers, transformers can handle only A.C Power supplies, creating all small voltages like 5v , 3.3v , 1.4V , DDR reference voltage can all handEL by a single  PMIC'S,  including -12v can be generated using zener and transistor combination and it's not a big deal in modern electronics and moreover I have the motherboard in my hand working. why should i want to lie

[Master Disaster]

4 minutes ago, Revanth A said:

@Master Disaster, first DC POWER won't work with transformers, transformers can handle only A.C Power supplies, creating all small voltages like 5v , 3.3v , 1.4V , DDR reference voltage can all handEL by a single  PMIC'S,  including -12v can be generated using zener and transistor combination and it's not a big deal in modern electronics and moreover I have the motherboard in my hand working. why should i want to lie

Not at all, DC transformers are very much a thing, they're just not the same as AC transformers.

[Revanth A]

Just now, Master Disaster said:

Not at all, DC transformers are very much a thing, they're just not the same as AC transformers.

Okay cool 

[Master Disaster]

3 hours ago, Revanth A said:

Okay cool 

Also that board clearly has a 24 pin connector shown in the picture. What you're showing is the auxiliary power connector.

[Jurrunio]

6 hours ago, Master Disaster said:

All those chokes are there to reduce the 3.3v rail to around 1.4v that's required by the CPU

no no no no no They are charged by the high side mosfet with 12V from the 12V rail and then spit out whatever's the core voltage through the low side mosfet, we havent powered CPUs with the 3.3V rail for a long time now, ever since we start strapping active cooling to CPUs I think

 

7 hours ago, Revanth A said:

@Jurrunio what are these Ryzen 3000 series and 2000 series means actually, 

i can see ryzen 9 3rd gen 3000 series ,

in which i know ryzen 9 is the latest one , 3rd gen means wht it signifies also what does the 3000 series or the 2000 series means?  

Ryzen 9 does not mean latest even though it appeared last (not in 1st and 2nd gen), 3rd gen is what tells its age and the chipset(s) compatible with it out of the box (i.e. oldest BIOS). A320, B350 and X370 are meant to be compatible with 1st gen, B450 and X470 for 2nd gen, X570 for 3rd gen. There are exceptions like the Asrock B450M/AC and MSI B450 Max boards that came much later than other boards of the same chipset that they support 3rd gen out of the box, and also older boards that are produced late in the product cycle can come from the factory with BIOS that supports the newer CPUs though this is not guaranteed.

 

Btw gen number does not refer to the architecture like Zen+ and Zen 2, 3rd gen for example the Athlon 3000G is based on Zen and performs like a 1st gen part with 2 cores, Ryzen 3 3200G and Ryzen 5 3400G are Zen+ parts and perform like 2nd gen parts with 4 cores and iGPU strapped onto them.