Home NAS

[Bentley81]

Hey guys, I have been a long time reader and video watcher.  I am hooked on building myself a NAS for my home files as well as using it as a recording hub for a series of security cameras.  I have gotten lost and confused with all the information that is out there.  I don't really have the time to learn all the acronyms and lingo that is now present in the computer world.  I built my own computer 20 years ago but cars stole my attention and since then have not maintained my savyness in the computer world.  I would like to build a nice raid system that can run my security cameras and be and access point for my current 1tb of photos and growing.  I have also gotten into 4k video and will edit that locally on my computer and then store the backups on the NAS.   Looking for something that I can build if I had a decent parts list, that will support 1gb ethernet and about 8 4k security camers.  There will be 3 computers accessing the NAS. I would love some help for all of you wonderful folks.

 

Thanks,

Eric

[Windows7ge]

What's your budget? How much storage do you want?

 

As an OS FreeNAS is pretty popular. There's many other options available if it doesn't do everything you need.

[Bentley81]

I'm thinking around 6TB should be good more is always better with all the security cameras running.  I can spend about 1k dollars but I could always build it a little at a time to spread the cost out over time.

[Windows7ge]

4 minutes ago, Bentley81 said:

I'm thinking around 6TB should be good more is always better with all the security cameras running.  I can spend about 1k dollars but I could always build it a little at a time to spread the cost out over time.

How much future expansion are you looking to have? How quickly do you think you'll fill this up?

 

You could buy a 6TB drive but you'd be limited by the performance of 1 disk. More than 1 disk gives you more performance but uses more bays in whatever enclosure you choose. You could use three 3TB drives in RAID5 but that may not give you the best upgrade path depending on how much you really intend to store.

 

Being on 1Gbit I can't say how much bandwidth your cameras will use. It's my understanding the video streams are often very compressed so it may be no issue at all while moving video & photos to/from the server.

[Bentley81]

If I could get around 6-8TB now over multiple drives I would be good for a while I think.  A year at least if not longer.  If I made it to 8TB I would build a second one and upgrade my network to 10gb.

[Windows7ge]

5 minutes ago, Bentley81 said:

If I could get around 6-8TB now over multiple drives I would be good for a while I think.  A year at least if not longer.  If I made it to 8TB I would build a second one and upgrade my network to 10gb.

If that's all you really need for the time being (a fairly basic NAS) I'd probably use 3x3TB or 3x4TB both in RAID5. That would max a 1Gbit link while allowing 1 disk to fail and maintain the integrity of the array. Usable storage would be 6TB or 8TB respectively.

 

I take it you want to build a NAS/server partly for the fun of it? Do you have an idea of what kind of hardware you would require, or are you completely lost here?

[Bentley81]

This is the part that I am truly lost.  There are so many options and so many different configurations that I get lost in the acronyms and what works with what and how much power this and that.  Things have changed a lot in the last 20 years.  I want to build one so that I can learn and have the ability to repair and expand it in the future.  Sound is not much of a concern as it will be in a place that that doesn't matter.  Size is the same, it can be quite large.  I like that a drive could fail and I would maintain all my information, that is most important.  I want the ability to add storage later (if cost and needs require it) I want it to be fast enough but fairly power efficient.

 

Thanks so much for your help!

[Oshino Shinobu]

7 minutes ago, Windows7ge said:

How much future expansion are you looking to have? How quickly do you think you'll fill this up?

 

You could buy a 6TB drive but you'd be limited by the performance of 1 disk. More than 1 disk gives you more performance but uses more bays in whatever enclosure you choose. You could use three 3TB drives in RAID5 but that may not give you the best upgrade path depending on how much you really intend to store.

 

Being on 1Gbit I can't say how much bandwidth your cameras will use. It's my understanding the video streams are often very compressed so it may be no issue at all while moving video & photos to/from the server.

I have one CCTV camera recording constantly, set to overwrite files older than 2 months. In total, 2 months is 186GB of data, which comes down to about 280Kb/s per one 1080p 24FPS camera.

[Oshino Shinobu]

Just now, Bentley81 said:

This is the part that I am truly lost.  There are so many options and so many different configurations that I get lost in the acronyms and what works with what and how much power this and that.  Things have changed a lot in the last 20 years.  I want to build one so that I can learn and have the ability to repair and expand it in the future.  Sound is not much of a concern as it will be in a place that that doesn't matter.  Size is the same, it can be quite large.  I like that a drive could fail and I would maintain all my information, that is most important.  I want the ability to add storage later (if cost and needs require it) I want it to be fast enough but fairly power efficient.

 

Thanks so much for your help!

I'd recommend looking to a backup solution prior to going for RAID if prevention of data loss is more important than downtime in the event of a disk failure. 

 

RAID is useful, but it's not a method to prevent data loss, it's a method to prevent system downtime in the event of hardware failure. Something to consider with RAID as well is that you cannot add storage to an existing array, you have to rebuild the array to add storage, which means moving the data on the existing array somewhere so you can restore it later. There are systems that let you do this, but RAID does not. Unraid has options that allow expansion without having to restore data, so you may want to look into that as the OS.

[Bentley81]

1 hour ago, Oshino Shinobu said:

I'd recommend looking to a backup solution prior to going for RAID if prevention of data loss is more important than downtime in the event of a disk failure. 

 

RAID is useful, but it's not a method to prevent data loss, it's a method to prevent system downtime in the event of hardware failure. Something to consider with RAID as well is that you cannot add storage to an existing array, you have to rebuild the array to add storage, which means moving the data on the existing array somewhere so you can restore it later. There are systems that let you do this, but RAID does not. Unraid has options that allow expansion without having to restore data, so you may want to look into that as the OS.

So you are saying a better option would be adding drives to my existing PC and using those on windows as a solution to record data 24-7 from my security cameras and store all of my photos and videos on the same device?

[Oshino Shinobu]

Just now, Bentley81 said:

So you are saying a better option would be adding drives to my existing PC and using those on windows as a solution to record data 24-7 from my security cameras and store all of my photos and videos on the same device?

No, I'm saying that creating a backup for the data on the NAS system should be done and considered into the cost before looking at RAID. If you can afford 6TB on the NAS and 6TB backup or 6TB RAID and no backup, go for the backup option. If you can afford both, do both. 

 

A NAS without RAID but with a backup is better than a NAS with RAID and without a backup in terms of preventing data loss. 

 

It can be as simple as an external drive/enclosure that is used to backup the data on the NAS, or another system. Depending on how important the data is, you may want a cloud or offsite backup as well. 

[Bentley81]

38 minutes ago, Oshino Shinobu said:

No, I'm saying that creating a backup for the data on the NAS system should be done and considered into the cost before looking at RAID. If you can afford 6TB on the NAS and 6TB backup or 6TB RAID and no backup, go for the backup option. If you can afford both, do both. 

 

A NAS without RAID but with a backup is better than a NAS with RAID and without a backup in terms of preventing data loss. 

 

It can be as simple as an external drive/enclosure that is used to backup the data on the NAS, or another system. Depending on how important the data is, you may want a cloud or offsite backup as well. 

Okay, so I could then in theory add 2 6TB drives to my existing PC and run one as a full time NAS and the other as a backup for that drive? I understand RAID better after this description. I can backup the really important stuff to an SSD and store it offsite. 

[Oshino Shinobu]

Just now, Bentley81 said:

Okay, so I could then in theory add 2 6TB drives to my existing PC and run one as a full time NAS and the other as a backup for that drive? I understand RAID better after this description. I can backup the really important stuff to an SSD and store it offsite. 

Technically, it's a backup but the situation is no different from RAID really.

 

RAID protects from drive hardware failure, that's basically it. 

 

A backup solution should not be a drive in the same system. A backup can protect against data corruption, ransomeware, PSU failure that result in drive damage, physical damage to a system, theft, fire and many more. Having your backup drive in the same system as the drive it's backing up negates basically all of that. 

[Bentley81]

1 hour ago, Oshino Shinobu said:

Technically, it's a backup but the situation is no different from RAID really.

 

RAID protects from drive hardware failure, that's basically it. 

 

A backup solution should not be a drive in the same system. A backup can protect against data corruption, ransomeware, PSU failure that result in drive damage, physical damage to a system, theft, fire and many more. Having your backup drive in the same system as the drive it's backing up negates basically all of that. 

So then what would your recommendation be? Off the shelf NAS or should I build something.  And if I built something what should I build?

 

Thanks

[Windows7ge]

3 hours ago, Oshino Shinobu said:

Something to consider with RAID as well is that you cannot add storage to an existing array, you have to rebuild the array to add storage

This isn't entirely true. Software RAID options like Windows Storage Spaces, BTRFS, & ZFS allow you to expand an existing pool without having to destroy and rebuild the array.

[Oshino Shinobu]

Just now, Bentley81 said:

So then what would your recommendation be? Off the shelf NAS or should I build something.  And if I built something what should I build?

 

Thanks

Seeing as you've mentioned upgrading to 10GbE later, you'd be wanting to build something. 

 

There are pre-built NAS systems with 10GbE, but they're expensive, which would be a waste if you don't go for 10GbE later and it limits expandabilitiy. 

 

If this is going to be only functioning as a NAS, you don't need a whole lot of power. I used to run my server at home on an i3 3220 and it never had any problems when it was functioning as a NAS with a couple of applications as well (mainly network management). 

 

A low power i3, 8-16GB of RAM (leave slots for more in case you want to turn it into a multi-purpose server) will do you well by the sounds of things. Get a case with a decent amount of 3.5" bays so you can expand. 

[Oshino Shinobu]

Just now, Windows7ge said:

This isn't entirely true. Software RAID options like Windows Storage Spaces, BTRFS, & ZFS allow you to expand an existing pool without having to destroy and rebuild the array.

None of these are RAID though... Two are file systems and one is a different storage technology utilising pools and virtual disks.

[Windows7ge]

34 minutes ago, Oshino Shinobu said:

None of these are RAID though... Two are file systems and one is a different storage technology utilising pools and virtual disks.

Ah, that's where you were going with that.

[Bacon soup]

My 2 cents on NAS:

WD red drives are good quality and affordable but there are drives made specifically for security cameras. They are not expensive. If I were you I would get some WD purple and a normal drive for non-security.

I'm using Next Cloud - personal cloud storage to sync phones and computers. Doesnt handle large files well but is great with photos and documents. Can be installed on most operating systems.

FreeNAS is great. I highly recommend it. You should check out the hardware requirements for the advanced features.

[Bentley81]

3 hours ago, Oshino Shinobu said:

Seeing as you've mentioned upgrading to 10GbE later, you'd be wanting to build something. 

 

There are pre-built NAS systems with 10GbE, but they're expensive, which would be a waste if you don't go for 10GbE later and it limits expandabilitiy. 

 

If this is going to be only functioning as a NAS, you don't need a whole lot of power. I used to run my server at home on an i3 3220 and it never had any problems when it was functioning as a NAS with a couple of applications as well (mainly network management). 

 

A low power i3, 8-16GB of RAM (leave slots for more in case you want to turn it into a multi-purpose server) will do you well by the sounds of things. Get a case with a decent amount of 3.5" bays so you can expand. 

I guess I just have to do more research then and find all the right bits.  I was hoping for a little helpful direction on cases and motherboards that would work.  I don't have a lot of time and want to be able to put something together that just works.  Do you have any good recommendations?

[Windows7ge]

1 hour ago, Bentley81 said:

I guess I just have to do more research then and find all the right bits.  I was hoping for a little helpful direction on cases and motherboards that would work.  I don't have a lot of time and want to be able to put something together that just works.  Do you have any good recommendations?

You have a lot of options & directions you can go. That's what's great about building your own computers/servers. You'll get different advise from different people so you have to combine that into something that makes sense for what you want to do and works with your budget.

 

For motherboard brands I'm partial to Supermicro, ASRock Rack, & ASUS. How much expansion you want (PCI_e slots) will determine if you want to go with Mini-ITX, Micro-ATX, or ATX (there are more but we'll stick with what is the most you'll likely want).

 

Giving you some growing room to have this do more than store or backup your things I'd go for a 4C/8T Xeon and 8 or 16GB of ECC RAM. If you ever decide to run some virtual machines this will enable you to.

 

The chassis itself is kind of up to you.

How big or small do you want it?

What size motherboard do you want it to support?

Max amount of drives it can hold?

Do you need 5.25" bays?

Etc.

[Salacious B Crum]

On 10/7/2019 at 4:56 PM, Bentley81 said:

So then what would your recommendation be? Off the shelf NAS or should I build something.  And if I built something what should I build?

 

Thanks

Get a relatively recent pc (3-5 years old) install unRAID (small cost) and build off of that it offers loads of options from dockers, plugins to VM's and is a rock solid platform for a plex media server it's ability to scale over time is absolutely a plus I'm running my main server off of an I7 6700 pre-built and it's been fantastic for those issues I've just listed and it was relatively cheap to build hardware wise leaving you most of your budget for storage drives see my signature for specs