Clean Windows 10 Install Questions

[Vectraat]

1.) Dumb question, but do you always need to change the boot order in your BIOS or within Windows to the USB flash drive or can you just plug the flash drive in and restart? I could have sworn this actually worked for me once.

2.) There seems to be different steps to install Windows if you're on UEFI or Legacy.
 

a.) Legacy involves setting the boot order to your USB flash drive within the BIOS?
 

b.) UEFI involves setting the boot order within Windows 10
Settings --> Update & Security --> Recovery --> Restart Now

Then: Troubleshoot --> Advanced Options --> UEFI Firmware Settings --> Restart --> Set boot order to start from the USB media.
 

Source: https://www.windowscentral.com/how-do-clean-installation-windows-10
 

3.) How do I know for sure if using UEFI/GPT or Legacy/MBR? I can set my boot to Ultrafast, so I assume UEFI/GPT?

4.) With the Media Creation Tool I guess if you download Windows 10, you can use it to select Windows 10 Pro with it? 
 

5.) Does MS ever make changes to the media creation tool? Like if I were to put it on a USB flash drive today and I only need to use it like a year or two later am I fine to use it or am I going to want to put a newer version on my flash drive? 

6.) Does anyone here use Rufus on a USB? I think I had to use it once because the MS Media Creation tool wasn't working and Rufus downloads an ISO to create a bootable USB flash media from?
 

[TheKDub]

If you currently have Windows installed, you'll likely have to either change boot settings in your BIOS, or go to the recovery menu and tell Windows to boot to the flash drive instead.

 

With UEFI, Windows will change some boot settings for you when doing the install. With legacy, it won't. The boot devices will also be different between the two. Legacy points to the drive (generally), and UEFI points to Windows Boot Manager.

 

If your PC is from the past 10+ years, it's probably UEFI.

 

Windows 10 packages all versions in the same installer. You select during installation.

 

They update the copy of Windows that you get, but that's about it.

 

I use Rufus all the time for both Windows and Linux drives. Works great.

[Vectraat]

2 minutes ago, TheKDub said:

If you currently have Windows installed, you'll likely have to either change boot settings in your BIOS, or go to the recovery menu and tell Windows to boot to the flash drive instead.

 

With UEFI, Windows will change some boot settings for you when doing the install. With legacy, it won't. The boot devices will also be different between the two. Legacy points to the drive (generally), and UEFI points to Windows Boot Manager.

 

If your PC is from the past 10+ years, it's probably UEFI.

 

Windows 10 packages all versions in the same installer. You select during installation.

 

They update the copy of Windows that you get, but that's about it.

 

I use Rufus all the time for both Windows and Linux drives. Works great.

Thanks for the response.

Well, my PC is new (not even a month old at this point), so I have UEFI/GPT then?
 

So with UEFI/GPT it's fine to change the boot order in my BIOS to the flash drive, but I can also do it within Windows via: Settings --> Update & Security --> Recovery --> Restart Now?

With Rufus, should I just leave it on GPT under "Partition Scheme" and UEFI (non CSM) under "Target system" ?
Is there anything else I should know about Rufus? And obviously the file system to NTFS. 

Do you prefer Rufus over using MS Windows 10 installation media?

[TheKDub]

2 minutes ago, Vectraat said:

Thanks for the response.

Well, my PC is new (not even a month old at this point), so I have UEFI/GPT then?
 

So with UEFI/GPT it's fine to change the boot order in my BIOS to the flash drive, but I can also do it within Windows via: Settings --> Update & Security --> Recovery --> Restart Now?

With Rufus, should I just leave it on GPT under "Partition Scheme" and UEFI (non CSM) under "Target system" ?
Is there anything else I should know about Rufus? And obviously the file system to NTFS. 

Do you prefer Rufus over using MS Windows 10 installation media?

If your BIOS has an interface that you can use your mouse in and doesn't look straight out of the 90's, then yes, you've got UEFI.

 

You can do it in your BIOS (UEFI), however doing it through Windows will probably be easier.

 

You can leave everything default on Rufus, just set the proper drive and source ISO.

 

I have copies of almost every Windows 10 version stored on a HDD (as well as Windows XP, 7, 8/8.1, and more), so I prefer using Rufus.

[Vectraat]

1 hour ago, TheKDub said:

If your BIOS has an interface that you can use your mouse in and doesn't look straight out of the 90's, then yes, you've got UEFI.

 

You can do it in your BIOS (UEFI), however doing it through Windows will probably be easier.

 

You can leave everything default on Rufus, just set the proper drive and source ISO.

 

I have copies of almost every Windows 10 version stored on a HDD (as well as Windows XP, 7, 8/8.1, and more), so I prefer using Rufus.

Question, when you use this: https://www.microsoft.com/en-ca/software-download/windows10

Is it using the May 2019 Update or 1809? Also, when creating the Install Media, I saw no way to set Windows 10 Pro. But I guess when I'm reinstalling Windows I'll be able to select the Edition as pro then? 

[TheKDub]

5 minutes ago, Vectraat said:

Question, when you use this: https://www.microsoft.com/en-ca/software-download/windows10

Is it using the May 2019 Update or 1809? Also, when creating the Install Media, I saw no way to set Windows 10 Pro. But I guess when I'm reinstalling Windows I'll be able to select the Edition as pro then? 

The may 2019 update is 1903. Your choice for which one you use.

 

You select the edition during Windows install, not when making the drive.

[Vectraat]

9 minutes ago, TheKDub said:

The may 2019 update is 1903. Your choice for which one you use.

 

You select the edition during Windows install, not when making the drive.

Yeah, I know the May 2019 is 1903, but when you download the tool, it doesn't give you the option to select vs 1903 or 1809. So I figure the Windows 10 Installation Media is using one or the other. 

[TheKDub]

Just now, Vectraat said:

Yeah, I know the May 2019 is 1903, but when you download the tool, it doesn't give you the option to select vs 1903 or 1809. So I figure the Windows 10 Installation Media is using one or the other. 

It's likely using 1903.

[Vectraat]

Just now, TheKDub said:

It's likely using 1903.

Ugh, that sucks. Oh well, hopefully MS has worked out all of the bugs with 1903 by the time I need to install. 

[TheKDub]

2 minutes ago, Vectraat said:

Ugh, that sucks. Oh well, hopefully MS has worked out all of the bugs with 1903 by the time I need to install. 

You could try finding a 1803 or 1809 ISO online. There was a website I used that linked to Microsoft's downloads for each version, but I can't find it or remember what it was called...

 

edit: found it: https://tb.rg-adguard.net/public.php

[Vectraat]

1 minute ago, TheKDub said:

You could try finding a 1803 or 1809 ISO online. There was a website I used that linked to Microsoft's downloads for each version, but I can't find it or remember what it was called...

 

edit: found it: https://tb.rg-adguard.net/public.php

Thanks, but I'm a bit overly-cautious when it comes to DL'ing from sources I'm unfamiliar with. 

[TheKDub]

Just now, Vectraat said:

Thanks, but I'm a bit overly-cautious when it comes to DL'ing from sources I'm unfamiliar with. 

The downloads are directly from Microsoft's servers.

Windows 10 1809 64-bit: https://software-download.microsoft.com/pr/Win10_1809_English_x64.iso?t=5cd2869b-e163-42f5-9d08-0d783fd37561&e=1563656925&h=55b649e9db722719bc95919760125f05

[Vectraat]

15 hours ago, TheKDub said:

The downloads are directly from Microsoft's servers.

Windows 10 1809 64-bit: https://software-download.microsoft.com/pr/Win10_1809_English_x64.iso?t=5cd2869b-e163-42f5-9d08-0d783fd37561&e=1563656925&h=55b649e9db722719bc95919760125f05

 

Just checked my C drive via Disk Manager to see that It's using an MBR partition style. Not sure why, that's just the way it is. Since It's only a 1 TB SSD, I guess it doesn't really matter whether I'm using MBR or GPT? 

When I select the Windows ISO file I see: 
-GPT and UEFI (non-CSM)
-File system "FAT32" 

a.) Should I change GPT to MBR? Doing that automatically changes the "Target System" to BIOS (or UEFI-CSM) 

b.) Should I change the File system from FAT32 to NTFS?

Also, I do find it kinda odd that my C drive under Disk Management isn't "Disk 0", but Disk 4. Why would that be? 

[TheDelphiDude]

20 hours ago, Vectraat said:

1.) Dumb question, but do you always need to change the boot order in your BIOS or within Windows to the USB flash drive or can you just plug the flash drive in and restart? I could have sworn this actually worked for me once.

Plugging in a USB flash drive can cause some BIOSes to alter the boot order, so it's entirely possible for it to have worked for you.

If your system offers something like a boot menu you may not need to change the boot order at all, but you can simply enter the boot menu, and select your USB flash drive from there. Other BIOSes offer a boot override, which again doesn't change the boot order but will allow you to choose another device to boot from.

My advice would be to set the boot order and style to your preferences (for example, UEFI with the SSD first), save the changes, insert the USB flash drive, reboot, and enter the boot menu/boot override to select the USB flash drive as the boot source.

 

3 hours ago, Vectraat said:

a.) Should I change GPT to MBR? Doing that automatically changes the "Target System" to BIOS (or UEFI-CSM) 

b.) Should I change the File system from FAT32 to NTFS?

Unless you want to install Windows in legacy/CSM mode rather than UEFI you can leave both as-is.

 

3 hours ago, Vectraat said:

Also, I do find it kinda odd that my C drive under Disk Management isn't "Disk 0", but Disk 4. Why would that be?

Drive letters are assigned by the OS. By default they will be ordered by disk and partition, ie, the 1st partition on the 1st disk will be C:, the 2nd partition D:, and the the first partition of the second disk would be E:. However, the partition containing the OS will always be C:, no matter if it's the first or last disk.

In short, that's normal behaviour and nothing to worry about.

[Vectraat]

21 minutes ago, TheDelphiDude said:

Plugging in a USB flash drive can cause some BIOSes to alter the boot order, so it's entirely possible for it to have worked for you.

If your system offers something like a boot menu you may not need to change the boot order at all, but you can simply enter the boot menu, and select your USB flash drive from there. Other BIOSes offer a boot override, which again doesn't change the boot order but will allow you to choose another device to boot from.

My advice would be to set the boot order and style to your preferences (for example, UEFI with the SSD first), save the changes, insert the USB flash drive, reboot, and enter the boot menu/boot override to select the USB flash drive as the boot source.

 

Unless you want to install Windows in legacy/CSM mode rather than UEFI you can leave both as-is.

 

Drive letters are assigned by the OS. By default they will be ordered by disk and partition, ie, the 1st partition on the 1st disk will be C:, the 2nd partition D:, and the the first partition of the second disk would be E:. However, the partition containing the OS will always be C:, no matter if it's the first or last disk.

In short, that's normal behaviour and nothing to worry about.

I dunno why, but this seems more difficult to me than it needs to be.

1.) My C drive is in the correct boot order so I don't need to change the boot order and I do have boot override. What I'm trying to figure out is why the tech used MBR on my 1 TB SSD when he could have used GPT/UEFI since my hardware is only a month old.

 

2.) When I'm doing a clean install, can I not just plug in the bootable MCT drive and boot from it and select GPT/UEFI from there? From reading around, it sounds like there is a different way of doing this and since my C drive is MBR I may need to do things a bit differently? *shrugs* 

[TheDelphiDude]

6 hours ago, Vectraat said:

What I'm trying to figure out is why the tech used MBR on my 1 TB SSD when he could have used GPT/UEFI since my hardware is only a month old.

If it's a SATA SSD there's no reason whatsoever for having used legacy/CSM. Some NVMe SSDs however did cause problems with UEFI and Windows setup not being able to detect the SSD. These days it's not really an issue anymore, but in the early days it would be either mucking about with inserting drivers into a Windows image, or sticking to legacy/CSM.

 

6 hours ago, Vectraat said:

When I'm doing a clean install, can I not just plug in the bootable MCT drive and boot from it and select GPT/UEFI from there?

If you've created a USB flash drive for GTP/UEFI, set the BIOS to UEFI and install Windows the setup will automatically use GPT/UEFI.

The fact that your SSD is currently partitioned using MBR is only an issue if you install Windows without deleting the old partitions first.

Note: before installing, unplug all other harddisks/SSDs apart from the one which you will install Windows on. Otherwise it might try creating a boot partition/store on another disk.

[Vectraat]

10 hours ago, TheDelphiDude said:

If it's a SATA SSD there's no reason whatsoever for having used legacy/CSM. Some NVMe SSDs however did cause problems with UEFI and Windows setup not being able to detect the SSD. These days it's not really an issue anymore, but in the early days it would be either mucking about with inserting drivers into a Windows image, or sticking to legacy/CSM.

 

If you've created a USB flash drive for GTP/UEFI, set the BIOS to UEFI and install Windows the setup will automatically use GPT/UEFI.

The fact that your SSD is currently partitioned using MBR is only an issue if you install Windows without deleting the old partitions first.

Note: before installing, unplug all other harddisks/SSDs apart from the one which you will install Windows on. Otherwise it might try creating a boot partition/store on another disk.

-From using msinfo I can see that my BIOS mode is: Legacy.
-My C Drive is MBR.
-Yet when I go into my BIOS I can use a mouse and there are some graphics--I thought this means you're using UEFI? I think UEFI has a legacy BIOS mode? 

I dunno why these concepts are confusing to me--even after watching a bunch of videos explaining it. Are there certain things I can look for while in Windows and in my BIOS that will tell me for sure what I'm using, or how to change it? 

And yes, It's a SATA 1 TB SSD.

Well, if you're using Microsoft MCT, you don't get to select GPT/UEFI. With Rufus you do. Set the BIOS to UEFI where? I thought you also need to change your C drive to GPT before switching your BIOS to UEFI? 

[TheDelphiDude]

4 hours ago, Vectraat said:

Yet when I go into my BIOS I can use a mouse and there are some graphics--I thought this means you're using UEFI? I think UEFI has a legacy BIOS mode?

The actual interface (ie, look and feel) of  your BIOS says nothing about it settings or support for UEFI. Granted, since the introduction of UEFI many BIOSes have shifted towards GUIs, but there are still many text BIOSes (predominantly on laptops) which also support UEFI.

 

4 hours ago, Vectraat said:

Well, if you're using Microsoft MCT, you don't get to select GPT/UEFI. With Rufus you do.

MCT creates a flash drive which supports both UEFI and legacy mode. Same goes for the ISO if you burn it directly to a DVD.

 

5 hours ago, Vectraat said:

Set the BIOS to UEFI where?

This is usually found underneath the boot or storage options. In many BIOSes you may have to enter the advanced mode to actually get to said options. The actual settings depend on the BIOS, but in most cases there's either an option for enabling UEFI / secure boot or disabling CSM / legacy. After that you might have to reboot, and enter the BIOS again to set further options.

 

5 hours ago, Vectraat said:

I thought you also need to change your C drive to GPT before switching your BIOS to UEFI?  

No. You can no longer boot Windows with the BIOS set to UEFI mode, and the OS being installed in CSM/legacy mode, but since the reinstall will require you to wipe your SSD and recreate the partitions (my advice is to simply delete all partitions, select the empty drive and click next) it's really a moot point.