Define R4 Fan Controller. Now with the power to freeze windows.

[S1lentThund3r]

So we've all run into strange situations with custom rigs. I've had computers not turn on because its not sitting on it side and just about everything else.

 

But here's one I just can't figure.

 

I have a Define R4 titanium, with 5 system fans. I've got Fractal 140mm R2 Silent fans on the front(2x), 1 on the side and 1 on the top. I've also got a noctua AF-14 on my H90. The H90 is using a direct 12v molex adapter for the pump and the fan is running off the PWM header for the CPU on my motherboard. Now I've hooked up my front and top fans to the fan controller that comes with the R4, which is powered by the same MOLEX line out of the PSU as the H90 pump. The side fan is using the provided fractal voltage reducer and going into the mobo for power.

 

Now that all sounds fine to me, I've heard of much crazier setups than this. One could even call this normal.

 

But lo and behold i've found that going from 12v down to 5v on the fan controller while windows is running causes it to 100% hang and lock up. Not even a BSOD. Just frozen. Changing the controller after the freeze does nothing, and I can start the rig on any setting I like on the controller. The controller is doing what it is supposed to. I can hear the fans running at the different speeds. But somehow, this system (which to my mind has absolutely no connection to the PC AT ALL other than the PSU (which is a Thermaltake toughpower 850w modular) is able to effect my rig? 

 

Anyone had the same issue/know a fix/currently in a class action against fractal? (Maybe not the last one )

[nsyedhasan]

So we've all run into strange situations with custom rigs. I've had computers not turn on because its not sitting on it side and just about everything else.

 

But here's one I just can't figure.

 

I have a Define R4 titanium, with 5 system fans. I've got Fractal 140mm R2 Silent fans on the front(2x), 1 on the side and 1 on the top. I've also got a noctua AF-14 on my H90. The H90 is using a direct 12v molex adapter for the pump and the fan is running off the PWM header for the CPU on my motherboard. Now I've hooked up my front and top fans to the fan controller that comes with the R4, which is powered by the same MOLEX line out of the PSU as the H90 pump. The side fan is using the provided fractal voltage reducer and going into the mobo for power.

 

Now that all sounds fine to me, I've heard of much crazier setups than this. One could even call this normal.

 

But lo and behold i've found that going from 12v down to 5v on the fan controller while windows is running causes it to 100% hang and lock up. Not even a BSOD. Just frozen. Changing the controller after the freeze does nothing, and I can start the rig on any setting I like on the controller. The controller is doing what it is supposed to. I can hear the fans running at the different speeds. But somehow, this system (which to my mind has absolutely no connection to the PC AT ALL other than the PSU (which is a Thermaltake toughpower 850w modular) is able to effect my rig? 

 

Anyone had the same issue/know a fix/currently in a class action against fractal? (Maybe not the last one )

The case has nothing to do with the freezes. It is not actually connected to the PC's working.

[S1lentThund3r]

The case has nothing to do with the freezes. It is not actually connected to the PC's working.

Well that would be what I would think too. If it wasnt for the fact that it instantaneously after changing the controller setting. At any point. I can replicate the issue whenever I like because it happens every single time. So there is (somehow) a correlation between the two.

[elkenrod]

I've read enough user reviews that claim that the fan controller has cause their system crash/die on the R4/XL to make me not use them.

[S1lentThund3r]

Can someone who is infinitely more qualified than me in electronics tell me if changing voltages from 12v through 7v to 5v could trigger something in the PSU? A protection measure or the like? As I can only see the PSU having something to do with this issue, as I said before its the only part of the computer where the fan controller has any contact with anything else in the system.

[jscho]

Why is the fan controller even connected to the PC components? It can run completely independently of the motherboard. It uses a molex for power and that's it. I've actually taken it out and ran it completely externally using a small DC adapter to molex to run fans on my desk on a hot day :lol: I jammed a small wire in the controller switch part to keep it running at 12V

[S1lentThund3r]

Why is the fan controller even connected to the PC components? It can run completely independently of the motherboard. It uses a molex for power and that's it. I've actually taken it out and ran it completely externally using a small DC adapter to molex to run fans on my desk on a hot day :lol: I jammed a small wire in the controller switch part to keep it running at 12V

Once again. This is the whole issue. Its not connected. At all. Apart from the line into the PSU.

[brob]

Anyone had the same issue/know a fix/currently in a class action against fractal? (Maybe not the last one )

 

The fan switch is somehow wired wrong or the psu has issues with how the switch works. If you have another psu, try it.

[Valhallatier]

CPU & graphics card uses the 12v rail on the PSU, and fans too!

but system hangs is just too much...

[jscho]

The fan switch is somehow wired wrong or the psu has issues with how the switch works. If you have another psu, try it.

 

Agreed, try another PSU. It would be that the controller is probably causing something to either trip or something. I dunno. Your issue is pretty far out.

[S1lentThund3r]

I'm reluctant to keep triggering the issue as I don't want damage to other components. I'm going to only switch when the PC is off, as this appears to be fine. Going to dig a bit deeper into some other forums and see who else has had this issue. Probably going to contact Fractal directly and see if they have any answers.

[Constantine]

Ask Fractal if their fans are rated to run at 5V. You'll get your answer there.

 

The sudden drop from the fan voltage could be causing either a voltage spike (possibly from the collapsing magnetic field?) or a current spike (the fans trying to draw their starting current) which is messing with all your other stuff on the 12V line.

 

Then again, I don't know how Thermaltake designs their PSUs and if they have the proper protection in.

[brob]

I'm reluctant to keep triggering the issue as I don't want damage to other components. I'm going to only switch when the PC is off, as this appears to be fine. Going to dig a bit deeper into some other forums and see who else has had this issue. Probably going to contact Fractal directly and see if they have any answers.

 

Let us know the results please.

[CLP]

I'd try plugging the pump into one of the 3pin fan headers on the mobo. It doesn't need to to be plugged directly into the PSU at all. Use that molex from the PSU for the controller only.

Of course you could avoid this by never going to 5V since 7 is silent anyways. I'll even suggest that Fractal go to a 7/9/12 controller for the R5. :-)

[Karikiro]

Can someone who is infinitely more qualified than me in electronics tell me if changing voltages from 12v through 7v to 5v could trigger something in the PSU? A protection measure or the like? As I can only see the PSU having something to do with this issue, as I said before its the only part of the computer where the fan controller has any contact with anything else in the system.

My guess:

Out: 12V = 12V (yellow) to 0V (black)

Out: 7V = 12V (yellow) to 5V (red) <--- This could be the problem.

Out: 5V = 5V (red) to 0V (black)

Some PSUs can see this as an defect and lock up. My Seasonic X-650 (as well as the X-560) hasn't got any problems with it.

[Glenwing]

7V works by using the 5V line as a ground and feeding 12V into it in the wrong direction.  Some PSUs may not like this, as (in theory) it will blow the 5V capacitor, so this can trip a PSU's over-voltage protection and it will cut all power to prevent this.  However as long as there are other components pulling on the 5V rail (such as hard drives, or the motherboard), the net draw on the 5V rail should easily be positive, so there should be no danger and it shouldn't be tripping any PSU protections.  Even if it did, the PSU should shut off.

[Sekt0r]

I recently put together a new rig with the Define R4 and an Antec HCG-520w PSU (also with an R9 290, Xonar DX, one SDD, one SATA), just using the stock fans. And I had this issue as well , BSOD when using the fan controller and so naturally I went searching for answers and found this thread etc and I found on another forum (don't recall which one, sorry) that someone else with the issue said he solved it by NOT using the same molex line for the fan controller as his system HDD.

 

So I opened the case up and of course I had my system SSD (and another SATA HDD) connected to the same power cable as the fan controller, so I unplugged the controller and put it into the only spare visible molex that was on a different cable, couldn't quite tell what else I had connected to that cable as I had already done my cable management pretty well. Anyway, booted up and no longer get the BSOD when using the fan controller, no matter how quick I change between the speeds, how many times etc

 

The other guy said his theory was that when using the fan controller on the same cable as his HDD, it would take power away from the HDD momentarily and cause the system to lock up, or something to that effect. I know when I was having the issue, while I was testing, I would change the controller from 12v down to 7v, I could then move my mouse around for a few seconds and say click the start button or maximize a folder and then it would freeze for a couple of seconds and BSOD.
 

Not sure if the above is the same cause for your issue but figured in case it was or if others had the same cause, I should post.

[S1lentThund3r]

Its the same symptoms, but the problem is that this is a dedicated molex line (I dont use molex for ANYTHING anymore). I got onto fractal about this and they offered to send me another controller but its not going to solve the problem, I did mention that they should try designing a better controller for their next gen of cases.