Throttlestop problems, cpu damage, or something else?

[Tmansdc]

Ok in my msi gp63 leopard with an i7 8750h I have the cache and core set to -.1582 and gpu, unslice and system agent set to -.0703.


Until 24 hours ago everything worked fine. I have every setting known to people turned to max performance and power. Prior to 24 hours ago my FID wouldn't go under 38 for any core and would even jump to just shy of 41 if allowed. Since then though the fid has dropped as low as 32 for cores and intermittently drops to as low as 24 for a few seconds.


I used to get between 1205 to 1230 in cinebench r15 but now it's between 1140 and 1190.


Did I accidentally damage my processor? Over usage? Registry file I need to change? What?


Thank you very much.

[genexis_x]

3 hours ago, Tmansdc said:

-.0703

-70.3mv is probably too much

3 hours ago, Tmansdc said:

Since then though the fid has dropped as low as 32 for cores and intermittently drops to as low as 24 for a few seconds.

Monitor power consumption while CB is running and let me know

[Tmansdc]

It runs at a full 3.9ghz for like 90% of the test throttling to 3.4 ghz during the last five to ten seconds.

 

 

Had these same settings since Monday and no problems until late Wednesday night early Thursday morning.

[genexis_x]

44 minutes ago, Tmansdc said:

throttling to 3.4 ghz during the last five to ten seconds.

Probably due to PL1 limit (45W). Nothing to worry about

[Tmansdc]

That's always been like that. But the problem with the speed reduction otherwise remains. Still not getting full FID in default like I used to.

[genexis_x]

2 hours ago, Tmansdc said:

That's always been like that. But the problem with the speed reduction otherwise remains. Still not getting full FID in default like I used to.

I don't quite understand what you mean...do you mean the CPU will keep dropping clock speed when you try to run multiple Cinebench rendering tests for a few minutes?

[Tmansdc]

Cinebench is fine it stays at 39 until the throttle kicks in but no matter how little the computer is doing the fid and speed jumps all over the place. I know it's affecting the cpu speed because my average score in cinebench is now in the mid 1100s rather than consistently in the 1210s/1220s.

[genexis_x]

5 hours ago, Tmansdc said:

no matter how little the computer is doing the fid and speed jumps all over the place

Do you mean that the clock speed changes all the time while idling?

[Tmansdc]

Yeah yet it never used to.

[genexis_x]

16 minutes ago, Tmansdc said:

Yeah yet it never used to.

That's normal

[Tmansdc]

Usually yes but why the reduction in cinebench score?

[unclewebb]

Are you using Speed Shift?  What is that set to?  Open up the FIVR window and see what it shows for Speed Shift EPP while Cinebench is running.  An EPP setting of 0 is appropriate for maximum and consistent performance when benchmark testing.

 

ThrottleStop has a log file option.  Turn that on while you are testing so you will have a complete record of your CPU performance.  Before you start data logging, go into the Options window and turn on GPU monitoring and also check the Add Limit Reasons to Log File option.  When you are finished testing or gaming; exit ThrottleStop so it can finalize the log file.  It will be saved into the ThrottleStop/Logs folder with today's date on it.  Attach it here or copy and paste the data to http://www.pastebin.com so I can have a look.  Also post some pictures of how you have ThrottleStop setup.  

 

On 4/4/2019 at 11:00 PM, Tmansdc said:

Since then though the fid has dropped as low as 32 for cores and intermittently drops to as low as 24 for a few seconds.

Is this being reported by ThrottleStop or some other monitoring app?  What Windows power plan are you using?

 

Just for the record, a properly running 8750H can maintain the full 39.00 multiplier for the duration of a Cinebench test.  With some decent dual channel memory, scores over 1300 are possible.  Make sure IccMax is set high enough.

[Tmansdc]

I've never messed with the iccmax setting at all.

 

Speed shift is enabled and at 0.

[Tmansdc]

https://pastebin.com/y9RT5uzK

 

 

 

Also using the ThrottleStop benchmark I used to get between 6.2 and 6.3 seconds for the 64m 12 thread normal priority test now I'm getting between 6.6 and 6.7.

 

 

Also with the 256M test I used to get 24 to 25 seconds now it's 27 to 28 seconds.

 

 

Also during those two cinebench r15 scores I got 1107 and 1096! Used to get between 1205 on a bad day and 1230 at best. Either way that's still an overall 10% performance loss.

 

 

https://pastebin.com/aw7gKB08

 

 

I am wondering if it has something to do with the power adapter because i kinda forced it in/pressed hard into the laptop last time I plugged it back in after being on battery.

 

 

Here's how throttlestop and my laptop were working back just on March 28th. Hardly ever a drop below a multiplier of 39:

 

 

https://pastebin.com/CcZssYi9

 

 

 

Here's the next bit. This time I realized something. I have cinebench r15 and throttlestop installed on my external 4tb usb 3 western digital hard drive. I had five megabytes a second files downloading from the windows store onto my external hard drive while running the previous tests. However I paused the downloads before doing this test. This time I got 1192 and then 1213 on cinebench and on ts bench 64M I got 6.29 seconds and 6.35 seconds. Can downloads affect throttlestop? Here's from midnight to 12:18 my time:

 

 

https://pastebin.com/kMRzCGHF

[unclewebb]

The log file shows that when your CPU is not throttling and it is running at the full 39.00 multiplier, peak power consumption is approximately 64 Watts.  When it starts to throttle, the log file shows that the PL1 power limit is the reason for throttling.  The CPU speed drops so the CPU does not exceed 45 Watts.  

 

Are you using ThrottleStop to set your Long and Short turbo power limits?  What are they set to?  Try setting the long term limit higher than 45 Watts.  Also make sure you are using the FIVR Disable and Lock Turbo Power Limits feature.  This can help take care of the secondary power limits that might be responsible for the throttling that you are seeing.

 

Your laptop has great cooling.  It can handle a few more watts without any concerns about your CPU temperature.

 

Where are some pictures of the various ThrottleStop windows?  It will be easier to help you if I can see what your settings are.

 

You will never get any meaningful benchmark results if you have downloads running in the background.  The ThrottleStop TS Bench test is extra sensitive to tasks running in the background.

 

18 hours ago, Tmansdc said:

Here's how throttlestop and my laptop were working back just on March 28th. Hardly ever a drop below a multiplier of 39

The reason your laptop was running great is because your CPU was running within the 45 Watt power limit.  Only when you run a stress test like Cinebench, the CPU needs 65 Watts, not 45 Watts, to run at its full rated speed.

 

Edit - The 8750H has a 45 Watt TDP rating.  On some laptops, long term, you will not be able to exceed this limit.  The Overpowered series of laptops from WalMart let you take the 8750H well beyond this limit.

[Tmansdc]

The pastebin link from just a couple nights ago I was idle just as on the 28th and there was still more fluctuation.

 

 

I'll post some pictures by tomorrow morning not at my laptop right now.

[unclewebb]

When a CPU is lightly loaded or idle, it is completely normal for the CPU multiplier to vary.  The multiplier constantly varies, hundreds of times per second, based on how many cores are active.  

 

Intel CPUs have two power limits.  It is normal during a Cinebench run for the 8750H to initially run at full speed (39 multiplier).  After a short period of time, it is normal for it to slow down so it does not exceed its 45 Watt TDP rating.  The log files show that this is exactly what is happening.  When you see PL1 in the log file, that is when your CPU is being limited by the 45 Watt TDP rating.  The amount it needs to slow down might vary a little from one day to the next.  The only thing that is important is that long term, the CPU does not exceed the 45 Watt TDP limit.

 

For less demanding tasks when the CPU is not exceeding its 45 Watt TDP limit, the CPU can run continuously at its full rated speed without any throttling.  This is what your CPU is doing.  It is running exactly as Intel intended it to run.

 

If you are lucky, you might be able to bypass the long term 45 Watt TDP limit.  On some laptops you can do this.  On many laptops you cannot.  For comparison, the Overpowered laptops are capable of running the entire Cinebench test while maintaining the full 39.00 multiplier on all 12 threads.  If you cannot bypass the 45 Watt TDP limit, it is impossible to do this on an 8750H.  

[Tmansdc]

I still think it was because of my pushing in the ac adapter power into the laptop a bit too hard and forcefully. I still don't get how under the exact same circumstances and settings the cpu would rarely go under 39 and now goes down to 35 regularly and gives me slightly worse results on ts bench and cinebench r15.

 

 

I'll still post the pics of settings tomorrow though.

[unclewebb]

When you are testing a CPU with a 45 Watt TDP rating and a benchmark needs way more than 45 watts to run at full speed, at some point the CPU will start to throttle.  Even in a controlled environment, Cinebench scores can be very inconsistent from one run to the next.  Notebook Check is one of the few review sites that tests for this.  

 

https://www.notebookcheck.net/Aorus-15-i7-8750H-RTX-2070-Laptop-Review.414967.0.html

 

A 100 point variation in Cinebench scores is normal.  The 8750H is designed to throttle.  If the Long Turbo Power Limit is set to 45 Watts, an 8750H might be able to use the full 39 multiplier for 75% of the first Cinebench run before it throttles.  If you immediately run Cinebench again and again, the CPU will immediately start to throttle and it will continue to throttle for the entire test.  With more throttling, the Cinebench score is going to be lower.  

 

The only way to get more consistent results out of an 8750H is to remove the long term 45 Watt limit that controls turbo boost.  After that, now you have to try and control all of the background tasks that continuously run while you are trying to benchmark.  Most Windows 10 computers will have over 1000 threads  running continuously in the background.  Each time one of these threads wakes up, it needs to be processed.  This means your benchmark has to momentarily stop.  Getting consistent benchmark scores out of a Windows 10 computer is not easy.  This is an even bigger problem on Windows 10 laptops. 

 

Edit - Open up Limit Reasons before you start running Cinebench.  When your CPU starts to throttle, Limit Reasons will show you why this is happening.  In this example, PL1 in red indicates that the CPU is throttling to stay under the long term turbo power limit.

 

[Tmansdc]

Did a couple more tests. This time with Forza Horizon 4 at completely maxed settings at 1080p. This first one is with the fan profile set to Auto. It's a long one. One hour and forty minutes of log file.

 

https://pastebin.com/32VXbxzW

 

 

This next one is shorter. Only 23 minutes long. Same thing as before but this time with the fan set to cooler boost.

 

 

https://pastebin.com/0T7kvF9d

[unclewebb]

Your logs show your CPU is running fantastic.  Exactly as Intel intended.  It is not unusual for a benchmark that fully loads all 6 cores to cause some throttling if one of the power limits is being exceeded.  Your games are only running at 30 Watts so there is no reason for any throttling.  The CPU multiplier is staying at 39 while gaming.

 

Early in the second log file when lightly loaded it shows 40.91 for the multiplier.  That confirms that the maximum 41 multiplier is being used when 1 or 2 cores are active.  You will never see the full 41.00 multiplier in the log file because Windows background tasks are always waking up additional cores when they need to be processed.  

 

On 4/4/2019 at 11:00 PM, Tmansdc said:

the fid has dropped as low as 32 for cores and intermittently drops to as low as 24 for a few seconds.

There is no evidence of any throttling like that in the log files you posted.  Were you monitoring your MHz on screen while in game?  Did you see any problems?  Some monitoring apps do not follow the Intel recommended monitoring procedure.  You can trust the ThrottleStop log file data.

 

Are you interested in trying to get beyond the 45 Watt TDP limit for an entire Cinebench run?  Not sure if this is possible with your MSI laptop but it is always fun to try.

[Tmansdc]

One more question. How off is gpu-z monitoring about cpu temperatures? I had throttlestop and gpu-z running and throttlestop shows the hottest a core got was 84 yet gpu-z showed the hottest a core got was 88. Thankfully no bd-prochot happened but just curious. However sometimes bd-prochot gets triggered below 95. Only during gta iv has this happened yet gpu-z showed hottest a core got was 92 and throttlestop showed the hottest a core got was 88. So I assume gpu-z is always around 4 degrees Celsius higher then the actual temperature?

[unclewebb]

I tested GPU-Z and it is accurate.  Core temperatures change instantaneously.  Two different monitoring programs are not going to be sampling the temperature sensors at the exact same time so some slight differences are normal. 

 

GPU-Z might be reporting the CPU package temperature.  This represents the hottest temperature found anywhere on the CPU package.  Internally, the CPU compares multiple sensors, including temperature data from all of the individual cores, and then allows software to read this as the single highest temperature.  You might have one temperature sensor on your CPU package that reads a couple of degrees higher than the rest of them.  None of these sensors are 100% accurate.  The sensors that Intel uses are only accurate to +/- 5°C.  

 

There is PROCHOT and then there is BD PROCHOT.  These two are not the same.  The Intel specified PROCHOT temperature for an 8750H is 100°C.  This is the temperature when thermal throttling is supposed to begin.  Many laptop manufacturers have decided to use a lower temperature.  The main screen of ThrottleStop will show what temperature MSI is using to trigger PROCHOT.  A PROCHOT temperature of 95°C is common. 

 

 

When ThrottleStop shows a check mark beside the PROCHOT box, that means that some thermal throttling has occurred.  This information is stored within the CPU and can be reset by clearing this box in ThrottleStop.  Best to clear that box before you start a game and then you can look at that box after you are finished to see if any thermal throttling occurred.  

 

BD PROCHOT is a signal path to the CPU.  It allows other sensors on the motherboard or the power adapter or the GPU to send a throttling signal directly to the CPU.  ThrottleStop allows a user to turn off the BD PROCHOT signal path so you can block these outside throttling signals.  When this is disabled, the CPU will still thermal throttle if it gets too hot.  That safety mechanism cannot be disabled.