unholy_walrus

On 9/4/2020 at 8:16 PM, Mick Naughty said:

The air coming out after the rad is hot. That isn’t questionable. So thus fresh air would be ambient air from outside the case. 
 

There are factors involved and if we aren’t taking into consideration sure, anything will work. 

1) Define "hot". Sure, the radiator heats the air to an extent. That's how radiators work. The point is that (at least I claim) the effect on internal component temps is minimal.

2) What factors did I not take into account? Saying something isn't being taken into consideration and then not mentioning what that something is - that's not great. Note that while I would never claim that my testing is anywhere near even adequate, I do think that if running rads at intakes, dumping all that "hot" air into the case, was really that bad temp-wise, I should've seen at least some indication of it during my fairly extensive run of stressing, gaming, movies, work etc. Obviously this isn't the first time either, and I've yet to see a "hot" internal temps -scenario.

To be clear - I'm not claiming there is no difference. I'm saying the difference in internal temps is very small. However, having thought about it, I think I am ready to make the claim that having radiators as intakes is slightly more benefitial as a whole (obviously doesn't apply to every case). 

On 9/4/2020 at 8:16 PM, Mick Naughty said:

The air coming out after the rad is hot. That isn’t questionable. So thus fresh air would be ambient air from outside the case. 
 

 

I'm just trying to make sure I don't misunderstand - I'm not sure if I'm getting this right. It seems to me that you're saying that having a rad as an intake in the front is bad, but on the top it's okay? I really don't think that's what you're saying, hence why I asked about this. I mean the first post was;

On 9/4/2020 at 8:38 AM, Mick Naughty said:

I never put the rad in the front. Unless I’m desperate. 
The rads still get fresh air so it isn’t a concern. And no heating up my case or the parts inside from all the hot air. 
The way it should be. 

Now, the only two options I see here are that you're saying what I discussed just now, or that a) you're running rads outside the case a'la MoRa or b) you have a case with a basement for example, that allows you to run them as intakes without effecting the main compartment. If either a or b is correct, that would've been really good to know as it would've made this post much, much less confusing.

I wouldn't be surprised if much of this is just misunderstanding either. If that's the case, I'm sorry.

4 hours ago, Mick Naughty said:

I never put the rad in the front. Unless I’m desperate. 
The rads still get fresh air so it isn’t a concern. And no heating up my case or the parts inside from all the hot air. 
The way it should be. 

There is no "hot air". I wish I could find where this whole concept of "having rads as intakes is bad" was investigated and debunked, because I know I've seen that just a while back. I'd be willing to bet that even in a fairly extreme case such as mine the effect to case temps is mininmal, even negligible. What I can say personally is that when I tested 240 rad front intake-360 rad top exhaust-120 fan back exhaust vs 240 rad front intake-360 rad top intake, 120 fan back exhaust, even when stressing both the cpu and gpu the difference in MB temps & a case temp probe was negligible. Hardware used was a GTX 1080 & a 4770k @1.41v, fans at around 800-1k rpm. Having said that, I did see enough of an improvement on water temp on the second configuration, though I'm aware that my testing was absolutely inadequate, thus I won't make any absolute claims here. It was enough for me to choose that configuration for daily use though.

What do you mean by "fresh air"? 

I won't pretend to know the science of it, but I do know that even with a 240 & 360 rads set as intakes and a single 120mm fan as an exhaust, the internal case temp won't reach even 40c during load at 25c ambient temp (Define S). Setting all rads as intakes has had only positive effects when running both cpu & gpu under water, based on my experience in the past few years. I don't mind having a very slightly higher case temp if as a result the liquid temp is lower.

If you don't want to spend a whole lot of money, Noctua's NF-P12 redux fans are shockingly good for rad use considering the price, at 500-1k rpm. Their performance tends to drop off at higher rpm's compared to NF-F12 and especially NF-A12x25, however I don't think you should ever run fans much faster than that or it sort of defeats the whole idea of watercooling. I could never afford the NF-A12x25 or NF-F12 for my rads, however even if I could, I'd still go with the NF-P12 redux for that use case. If I have to run fans on a custom loop at 1k+ rpm, I've done something wrong or I have a very small case.

My own testing was very much limited and flawed, but based on the tests we did on my friend's NF-A12x25 fans the performance was pretty underwhelming at sub 1000 rpm in rad use. It got consistently beaten by the NF-P12 redux until at around 1100 rpm, and then at 1200+ rpm it was finally both more quiet and performed better. At 1300+ rpm the performance was great, better than anything else, but the noise was already too much for me, despite being impressive for the airflow. The higher the rpm, the more impressive the performance. For the NF-P12 the exact opposite was true, performance at 1100+ rpm wasn't great.

I would suggest getting some other fans for your rads. The NF-S12A is a fantastic fan, but it doesn't do great on rad use. I wouldn't use it even on low fpi and/or slim rads. The performance really isn't great in my experience. The NF-P12 / NF-P12 redux would be a significant upgrade already, and you can't go wrong with the NF-F12 (though I prefer the NF-P12's sound profile at 500-1000rpm). Then there's the new NF-A12 fans that are supposed to be great, but shockingly expensive. The NF-P12 redux is my new go-to for radiator use at 1000 rpm or less for a reasonable price.

If you don't want Noctua, the EK Vardar, Corsair ML120, CoolerMaster Silencio FP120 are all good choices. The FP120 might just be the most underrated radiator fan in existence. If you want to go super cheap, the Arctic P12 is the obvious choice. For 7€ you'll get a fan that pretty much competes with 2-3x more expensive fans.

It's very common to have some of the fins get damaged/bent when handling rads. They're made of aluminum or copper, thus making them fairly soft. All of my rads have bents fins from dropping fittings on them etc. Just like @Semper said, you'll lose some cooling effectiveness, but very little - unless the damaged are is large and prevents airflow significantly. In your case, you shouldn't even notice it. 

Do make sure the liquid channel is indeed intact, but if there is no visible damage on it at all, you should be completely fine. Luckily the channels themselves aren't quite as fragile as the fins, and most modern rads tend not to have them directly under the screw holes or they have protective plates under the holes to prevent damage - though I would still be careful when handling rads. I've had to repair channels on a couple older rads damaged by using wrong screws, and it's not great fun. Personally I have a hard time trusting my own (sort of botched) repairs so it's usually a death sentence for the rad.

I had a leak due to a 45° EK-AF fitting that pretty much completely failed. It's a miracle I didn't end up with serious damage. I figured I might aswell move the rad from the roof to the front and generally re-do the loop. It's basic as fuck, but I'm working on a non-existent budget. The camera on my Honor 6 really doesn't do it justice either. I'll still need to fix the LED strips and sleeve those ugly ugly wires, but meh. I'm a lazy bastard.

If you plan on watercooling your card, go for EVGA. Otherwise the Gainward card is the obvious choice because of the fantastic cooler it has.

Also, didn't EVGA fuck up the Pascal cards pretty badly, missing thermal pads and all that? I'm not sure which cards were effected or if they've finally fixed the issue.

Those temps are perfectly normal if you don't have a delidded chip. My liquid cooled 1.32v 4770k hits 65-70c in Witcher 3 with sub 40c liquid temp, which is why I'll be delidding this chip like every Haswell I've ever owned. So far I've just been too lazy to do so, but soon I'll re-do my entire loop so I won't have any excuses not to do it any more.

The TIM between the IHS and the CPU die isn't good but it isn't exactly horrible either. The problem is usually just bad contact. Delid the chip, get rid of the epoxy glue or whatever the gunk is they use to glue the IHS to the chip and then use liquid metal TIM between the IHS and the die, and be amazed by the temps you get. Delidding, when done right, is easy, safe and definitely worthwhile - especially with Haswell chips.

Just now, hihihi8 said:

After adding the heat sinks to the inside of the cooler, my cards now run cool to the touch. A little higher than room temperature at most, so I'm pretty sure I did a good job of protecting the VRM and VRAM's

What kind of heatsinks did you use for the VRM if I may ask? Seeing this has made me want to try something on a reference 780 I'll get soon. I have a bunch of small copper heatsinks I used on one of my R9 290s somewhere around here but I suspect they may be way too high to fit inside.

I was referring to the power delivery though, not the vram chips.

I still find most full cover blocks to be better looking, but I have to admit this is a very nice mod. It's definitely the best one of these mods I've ever seen - most of them look amateurish and sloppy, unlike yours. The idea is nice and the end result looks sharp.

My only real concern when comparing this to a full cover block would be VRM cooling, but it seems that the reference design provides no VRM heatsinks to begin with (correct me if I'm wrong, I've never seen a reference 980Ti up close) so I suppose it should be okay with just airlow from the blower fan.

I'd suggest going for whichever decent quality custom card is the cheapest where you live. The GTX 1060 should give you a slight performance edge in gaming right now, but I wouldn't be surprised if the tables were turned a bit in a while. If the cards are within like 10-15€ of eachother, I'd probably advice you go with the GTX 1060, but both cards will do well.

If I had to choose a card, I'd probably go for a Sapphire RX 480 Nitro. Sapphire generally makes fantastic cards and I've yet to hear anything bad about the 480 Nitro. The 4GB Nitro is by far the best deal when it comes to buying a new gpu where I live; the price-to-performance ratio is really just amazing. Sure, the 4GB vram could end up being somewhat of an issue in the future, but the value is just so good. I'll probably end up getting the 4GB Nitro for my 2500k machine to replace the R9 290 that's having problems. 

In all honesty I find this whole PCMR circlejerk more annoying and sad than anything.

1 hour ago, Godlygamer23 said:

If my hardware died, I'd be fucked. I have no money to replace any of the expensive components. 

I'm in the same boat. If I were to lose hardware now, I'd be completely fucked unless warranty saved my ass. Like I could replace the mobo alone, if I could find a good Z97 board second hand, and I might even be able to replace the CPU with like a 4690k or 4790k if I absolutely had to. But if like my loop leaked all over the place or I lost my GPU? Yeah, I'd be without a decent PC for a long time.

Unemployment is hell.

Yeah, those connectors should be really cheap and very easy to find. I hope we can diagnose and fix the problem soon enough!

If the fans work fine, try running the pumps directly off of the PSU for example and see how the temps are. I mean everything here is more or less pointing to a pump issue.

16 hours ago, hotcoolfool11 said:

Ok but, the guy said that installed the Cpu cooler i must watch out for my the temp to get too low and start forming water, or vapor? What do u guys think must i be worried becuase its currently cpu is running at 31c @4.5 overclock.

You can tell "that guy" that he shoudn't be giving advice about something he knows nothing about. He's so badly off that it's really making my head hurt.

No, you don't have to worry about the cooler. It absolutely cannot get your CPU temp below the ambient temp. There will not be any condensation issues. You also don't need to worry about the cooler leaking. It's extremely rare nowadays and if it does happen, Corsair will be helping you out.

Just ignore the guy and have fun.

I really don't know how a windows update could've made your load temps go up. What were they like before?

I'd just try to run the pumps at full power directly from the PSU just in case there are issues with the mobo fan headers. While you're at it, make sure the radiator fans are nice and good. If the temps still look that bad, I don't know what to say. I never ran my R9 290 with an AIO, but a single 120mm should be enough to handle the load and not produce 90c+ temps. The only thing that comes to mind really is a pump issue. While it's very unlikely that both units would start having issues at the same time, it's not impossible and I'm having a hard time finding an alternative explanation. 

In any case, your first priority should be to make sure that the pumps and fans still work.

I'd go with a 1070 unless you can get a 980 Ti for significantly cheaper. A 1070 will consume less power and produce less heat, but imo that's not all that important. What is important is the way Nvidia has been doing things - a 1070 will very likely last you longer than a 980 Ti. With Nvidia I definitely always prefer going with the latest generation, which is why when faced with the same decision I went for a 1070 instead of a 980 Ti and paid a bit more.

5 minutes ago, Wingfan said:

Is it expandable? if i wanted to add a GPU to the loop?

Yeah, they are. The EK kits contain fully custom-grade parts. However I'd recommend getting one of the newer kits that have D5 pumps. It's really the only pump I'd truly recommend. Also I think it's a good call not watercooling your gpu for now. It's really not worth it to put a 290x under water any more. Just make sure to plan the loop so that it'll be easy to expand it when you decide to put your new card under water.

And finally; don't cheap out when doing custom h2o. It'll come back to bite you in the ass later.

You can't use them on a rad obviously. Get an anti-vibration rubber gasket, they're cheap and fairly effective. There should be 240mm ones as well if you don't want to use two 120mm ones. I think I'm using a 360mm one from xspc or something.

The 970 for that price is definitely worth it. However I would suggest saving a bit more and then buying a 6600k instead of the 6500, and I'd also get a bit better PSU.

Well that blows. I'm sorry but I can't stop myself from asking; how the hell did you manage that? I've been trying to figure out how installing a waterblock could do such damage.

I've always wanted a small but powerful laptop like the Blade Stealth.

This is a very cool way of showing your appreciation to your fanbase.