Which AMP do I buy???

[MTGKING]

Alright, so the sub that i've decided on is the Orion HCCA152 15" HCCA Series 2 Ω.

 

I've been looking at amps for awhile and I have yet to find any good answers to what I should buy and why. 

I know you get what you paid for, but I do still have a budget. I'm thinking around $200 to $400.

 

Is the Soundstream TA1.2000D Tarantula 2000W Class-D Monoblock a good choice, or do you guys have a better suggestion?

I'm basically looking for the amp with the best price to performance ratio. Thanks:)

[dj_ripcord]

This is in your vehicle right?

 

Edit: Sorry dumb question.

 

Anyhow, keep in mind that to power your sub, your RMS is 2500W. 2500/12 = 208 Amps. That's a lot of juice. Way more than any standard card alternator can provide. It's likely that if you purchase an amplifier for your sub that can provide it's RMS wattage, you will need a new alternator. A really big alternator.

 

At this build size, I recommend you consult a professional installer company.

[MTGKING]

30 minutes ago, dj_ripcord said:

This is in your vehicle right?

 

Edit: Sorry dumb question.

 

Anyhow, keep in mind that to power your sub, your RMS is 2500W. 2500/12 = 208 Amps. That's a lot of juice. Way more than any standard card alternator can provide. It's likely that if you purchase an amplifier for your sub that can provide it's RMS wattage, you will need a new alternator. A really big alternator.

 

At this build size, I recommend you consult a professional installer company.

lol, thanks. Yeah, I'll be getting a high output alternator of some sorts too in the the next few weeks. So that amp is a good choice though as far as power goes? Also, any suggestions about what to do for the alternator? Thanks again

[Ahoy Hoy]

3 hours ago, MTGKING said:

Alright, so the sub that i've decided on is the Orion HCCA152 15" HCCA Series 2 Ω.

 

I've been looking at amps for awhile and I have yet to find any good answers to what I should buy and why. 

I know you get what you paid for, but I do still have a budget. I'm thinking around $200 to $400.

 

Is the Soundstream TA1.2000D Tarantula 2000W Class-D Monoblock a good choice, or do you guys have a better suggestion?

I'm basically looking for the amp with the best price to performance ratio. Thanks:)

What you want to do is search 2 ohm 2000 watt amp. Then when you find a amp which says at 2 ohms it provides 2000 watts (not more then 2000, but possibly a little less like 1800) you pick that one.

[Stagea]

4 hours ago, MTGKING said:

Alright, so the sub that i've decided on is the Orion HCCA152 15" HCCA Series 2 Ω.

 

I've been looking at amps for awhile and I have yet to find any good answers to what I should buy and why. 

I know you get what you paid for, but I do still have a budget. I'm thinking around $200 to $400.

 

Is the Soundstream TA1.2000D Tarantula 2000W Class-D Monoblock a good choice, or do you guys have a better suggestion?

I'm basically looking for the amp with the best price to performance ratio. Thanks:)

It'd work. This may be worth a look too:

https://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_127477_Soundstream-AR1.8000D-Class-D-Monoblock.html

 

Lower cost car amps (like most Soundstream products) don't deliver rated power, especially as the supply voltages drop. Getting a larger amp like this will give you enough headroom (preventing clipping), and will run the parts at a lower duty cycle (potentially extending life).

 

35 minutes ago, Ahoy Hoy said:

What you want to do is search 2 ohm 2000 watt amp. Then when you find a amp which says at 2 ohms it provides 2000 watts (not more then 2000, but possibly a little less like 1800) you pick that one.

He's looking at a dual voice coil subwoofer. If he puts the coils in parallel, it will yield 1 Ohm nominal.

[MTGKING]

17 hours ago, Stagea said:

It'd work. This may be worth a look too:

https://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_127477_Soundstream-AR1.8000D-Class-D-Monoblock.html

 

Lower cost car amps (like most Soundstream products) don't deliver rated power, especially as the supply voltages drop. Getting a larger amp like this will give you enough headroom (preventing clipping), and will run the parts at a lower duty cycle (potentially extending life).

 

He's looking at a dual voice coil subwoofer. If he puts the coils in parallel, it will yield 1 Ohm nominal.

Ok, thanks so much. I do still have a couple questions though.

So, I'm still kind of new to car audio, hence my presence in this forum, and I am a little confused about subwoofers power draw.

So are subs exactly like PCs in the fact that having a power supply/amp with way more power than needed is what you want?

In other words, would buying an 8000 watt amp potentially cause any problems when powering a much smaller rms sub? 

[Stagea]

6 hours ago, MTGKING said:

Ok, thanks so much. I do still have a couple questions though.

So, I'm still kind of new to car audio, hence my presence in this forum, and I am a little confused about subwoofers power draw.

So are subs exactly like PCs in the fact that having a power supply/amp with way more power than needed is what you want?

In other words, would buying an 8000 watt amp potentially cause any problems when powering a much smaller rms sub? 

As long as you are not maxing out the amplifier, then you are safe. The more powerful the amplifier, the more headroom you have (it is your subwoofer's power supply). An amplifier is an AC power supply with an output that's modulated according to the input signal from your source. Its aim is to replicate the input waveform in frequency, but produce a proportionally greater amplitude (this amplification factor is what they call "gain"). Like cheap power supplies, cheap amplifiers often do not output rated capacity (by how much, it really depends on a lot of factors). An amplifier hitting its limits will clip its output waveform, causing nasty distortion. It's nearly impossible to buy an amp that's too powerful with today's Class D designs (because they are so efficient that even a huge amp won't waste a lot of power).

 

The subwoofer's power rating is generally just the maker's rated thermal capacity for the voice coil. Depending on the use, you may be able to push much more than this without damage (in cases of powerful transients without reaching mechanical limits) or damage it with far less power (if you constantly hit mechanical limits due to the wrong enclosure design or infrasonic filter setting).

 

 

[Stagea]

I believe many of Soundstream's ratings nowadays are at max input voltage (16V in this case). If you can get 12V to the amplifier terminal, the AR1.8000D amp will have a real limit of about 2,250W into 1 Ohm at 1% distortion. That'd be about typical for your subwoofer driver.

 

Here's another option:

https://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_128831_Hifonics-BRX4016.1D.html

[Stagea]

Power supply side items to consider when building a powerful system:

1. Alternator - A high capacity alternator would be the foundation of a system that can play loud continuously (it should be capable enough to supply the amps and keep the battery charged)

2. Battery - A strong and durable battery will help take care of transient current demands (the alternator does not ramp output instantly, so they go hand in hand)

3. Conductors - Do a "Big 3" wiring upgrade and ensure that the wiring to the amplifier is of sufficient gauge (everything should be safely wired as well, of course)

 

What car do you have by the way?

[MTGKING]

6 hours ago, Stagea said:

Power supply side items to consider when building a powerful system:

1. Alternator - A high capacity alternator would be the foundation of a system that can play loud continuously (it should be capable enough to supply the amps and keep the battery charged)

2. Battery - A strong and durable battery will help take care of transient current demands (the alternator does not ramp output instantly, so they go hand in hand)

3. Conductors - Do a "Big 3" wiring upgrade and ensure that the wiring to the amplifier is of sufficient gauge (everything should be safely wired as well, of course)

 

What car do you have by the way?

Thanks so much for the help. I have a blacked out 2010 mitsubishi lancer btw

So why would I pay almost twice as much for an amp that has very similar specs to a $200 one? I understand that cheaper amps are not quite as good, but what specifically would warrant me to buy the more expensive one?

[Stagea]

11 hours ago, MTGKING said:

Thanks so much for the help. I have a blacked out 2010 mitsubishi lancer btw

So why would I pay almost twice as much for an amp that has very similar specs to a $200 one? I understand that cheaper amps are not quite as good, but what specifically would warrant me to buy the more expensive one?

You're welcome. You can build the system and do the big three upgrade. Install a voltmeter (it can even be a cheap one that plugs into the cigarette lighter port); that'd give you an idea if the system voltage is dipping (letting you monitor your electrical demands to see if you need a much larger alternator and/or battery). 

 

I believe their dynamic power outputs are not that far from each other on the bench. I'd suppose the Hifonics would do better in terms of continuous power (good for test tones / burping / competition), but either should do the job for loud music playback (music is dynamic material).

[MTGKING]

9 minutes ago, Stagea said:

You're welcome. You can build the system and do the big three upgrade. Install a voltmeter (it can even be a cheap one that plugs into the cigarette lighter port); that'd give you an idea if the system voltage is dipping (letting you monitor your electrical demands to see if you need a much larger alternator and/or battery). 

 

I believe their dynamic power outputs are not that far from each other on the bench. I'd suppose the Hifonics would do better in terms of continuous power (good for test tones / burping / competition), but either should do the job for loud music playback (music is dynamic material).

Okay, thanks. I'm probably only going to run the thing on full blast like a couple minutes per week, so hopefully I'll be okay. So what actually causes the huge price difference. Is it just the brand or what?

[Stagea]

1 hour ago, MTGKING said:

Okay, thanks. I'm probably only going to run the thing on full blast like a couple minutes per week, so hopefully I'll be okay. So what actually causes the huge price difference. Is it just the brand or what?

Either should do what you need. There are people who claim to have dyno tested the AR1.8000D to deliver about 80% of rated output (3.2 kW) in real-world conditions (using a large alternator and extra batteries) from a dynamic measurement standpoint. That should be sufficient for your described use case.

 

We can pretty much consider the Hifonics and Soundstream amps in our discussion as 2 kW amplifiers when tested with a sine wave and powered realistically, and maybe reach 3 kW with music. Slightly more if the car has a beefed-up electrical system, and much less with factory electricals.

 

Price differences from the same retailer generally may be caused by:

1. Brand perception / marketing

2. Design and component selection

3. Import duties (not so much of a factor here)

4. Supply & Demand

 

For example, these amps may only be rated at 2,400 - 2,500 watts but they're actually guaranteed to meet that specification:

https://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_127791_Kicker-KXA2400.1-44KXA24001.html

https://www.crutchfield.com/S-g55toCDTnhN/p_57525001CP/Rockford-Fosgate-T2500-1bdCP.html

 

If you check birth sheets of these models, you'd see that they're probably more powerful than the "4000W Continuous / 8000W Max" Soundstream and Hifonics amps that we were talking about. These models bench in the ballpark of 3 kW with a sine wave.

 

Higher end products generally are rated and built more conservatively, which drives up the price. It's upto the wise buyer to decide on what would work for him/her. As with anything, there is a sweet spot for everyone. 

 

That being said, amplifier power is cheaper than ever (thanks to Class D topology). It's pretty amazing that you can get a 2 kW amplifier for $200 (ignore that it's being marketed as a 4 kW amp).

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Stagea]

If you wanna look for a product that at least gets close to the rated output, look for the CEA-2006 badge. That is somewhat of a car audio "equivalent" of a PC power supply's 80+ rating. It's saying that the ratings are based on standardized testing procedures and parameters.

[Stagea]

If you're yet to buy amplifiers for the rest of your speakers, I suggest looking for full range Class D amplifiers for them. That will at least reduce the total power demand of your sound system at a given playback level (they are just that much more efficient). They are also generally more compact at a given power level and are lighter.

 

Here's an example:

https://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_40254_NVX-JAD800.4.html

 

Scroll down to see the Certified Results and Dynamic Results. As you can see this amplifier meets the promised results.

 

 

[MTGKING]

21 hours ago, Stagea said:

Either should do what you need. There are people who claim to have dyno tested the AR1.8000D to deliver about 80% of rated output (3.2 kW) in real-world conditions (using a large alternator and extra batteries) from a dynamic measurement standpoint. That should be sufficient for your described use case.

 

We can pretty much consider the Hifonics and Soundstream amps in our discussion as 2 kW amplifiers when tested with a sine wave and powered realistically, and maybe reach 3 kW with music. Slightly more if the car has a beefed-up electrical system, and much less with factory electricals.

 

Price differences from the same retailer generally may be caused by:

1. Brand perception / marketing

2. Design and component selection

3. Import duties (not so much of a factor here)

4. Supply & Demand

 

For example, these amps may only be rated at 2,400 - 2,500 watts but they're actually guaranteed to meet that specification:

https://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_127791_Kicker-KXA2400.1-44KXA24001.html

https://www.crutchfield.com/S-g55toCDTnhN/p_57525001CP/Rockford-Fosgate-T2500-1bdCP.html

 

If you check birth sheets of these models, you'd see that they're probably more powerful than the "4000W Continuous / 8000W Max" Soundstream and Hifonics amps that we were talking about. These models bench in the ballpark of 3 kW with a sine wave.

 

Higher end products generally are rated and built more conservatively, which drives up the price. It's upto the wise buyer to decide on what would work for him/her. As with anything, there is a sweet spot for everyone. 

 

That being said, amplifier power is cheaper than ever (thanks to Class D topology). It's pretty amazing that you can get a 2 kW amplifier for $200 (ignore that it's being marketed as a 4 kW amp).

Wow, thanks for the in depth explanation. I guess the sweet spot for me is on the cheap side lol. You've helped me more than any other person on this forum btw, so thanks:D

[Stagea]

2 hours ago, MTGKING said:

Wow, thanks for the in depth explanation. I guess the sweet spot for me is on the cheap side lol. You've helped me more than any other person on this forum btw, so thanks:D

You're welcome. Wishing you the best of luck with your project.