Need Help Picking Out Networking Hardware

[Jonathan W]

I am trying to set up a network for my NAS that will allow the NAS to act as a file server for the house and as a client for video streaming so that I can wirelessly remote into it from elsewhere in the house or outside of it to access/stream my content.

 

BUT

 

Not all of the content is stored as normal movie/music files, most of my content I get through Google Play Music Unlimited or VUDU which are wonderful streaming services, but our lines go down a lot here in the winter, we have a generator for power and heat but it doesnt get us internet, so streaming from the internet is no longer an option until the lines are fixed. Google Play and VUDU give you the ability to download your purchased content to a computer, which will be my low power file server, and then I want to use some VPN or VLAN software to screenshare the file server to one of the other computers in the house, like the one connected to the TV in the living room, or to my phone or a tablet or whatever.

 

AND I would like to have the option to be able to stream the content from outside of the network when I am away from the house [obviously this would have to be over the internet]

 

I'm going to attach a paint layout of how I imagine the network working.

 

I want the network to have the capability to stream 4K SUHD content, help future proof it a bit.

 

I was told a CAT6 cable at least is required, and that a 450Mbit/s Wireless AP should be fine when paired with a true gigabit router/switch

 

[kirashi]

47 minutes ago, Jonathan W said:

--SNIP--

1) Google Play and VUDU give you the ability to download your purchased content to a computer, which will be my low power file server, and then I want to use some VPN or VLAN software to screenshare the file server to one of the other computers in the house, like the one connected to the TV in the living room, or to my phone or a tablet or whatever.

 

2) AND I would like to have the option to be able to stream the content from outside of the network when I am away from the house [obviously this would have to be over the internet]

 

3) I want the network to have the capability to stream 4K SUHD content, help future proof it a bit.

 

4) I was told a CAT6 cable at least is required, and that a 450Mbit/s Wireless AP should be fine when paired with a true gigabit router/switch

 

1) Definitely do-able from within the LAN. Using something like VNC or RDP (remote desktop) from within the LAN should work fine. You'd just have to get VNC server software running on the server, and then client software on each client device you want to stream to. This would essentially let you stream video and audio from the server to any other PC on the network, but sadly, no consoles or devices that don't allow VNC software.

At least you'd be able to then "stream" your downloaded Google Play and Vudu content locally. Because of the way Google Play, Vudu, Spotify, etc. cache offline content, there isn't really a way to stream said content over DLNA or as files over the network, since the computer you cache the content on is the only one that can actually play it.

 

2) Technically you could stream the content remotely again using a VNC or RDP setup too, only limited by your home upload speed and the download speed of the connection you're using remotely. I personally have TeamViewer installed on all my computers (with two-factor authentication for security) and occasionally use it to access remote files I forget to throw into my Dropbox.

Be aware that Remote Desktop from outside the LAN isn't going to be that great for video playback as you're essentially streaming a compressed version of the same video stream you'd otherwise be streaming locally, and that's going to need a lot of upload from your home connection. Music should be fine though.

 

3) Locally, this shouldn't be a problem. It all depends on how many devices are pulling content from the server at the same time, and whether or not your network gear (router, firewall, switches, cabling, etc.) can handle this kind of load. Again, streaming files from my NAS over HTTP works fine even on my dodgy home network, but using a VNC session or Remote Desktop session to watch a video playing back on another computer is choppy, simply because of how Remote Desktop works.

This means that Google Play Music should work fine for you, but Vudu Videos might be choppy or poor quality. Again, this is due to how Remote Desktop re-encodes your screen, and not necessarily your network. Oh, and you can forget streaming 4K SUHD content remotely, unless you've got a wicked upload speed.

 

4) Having gigabit ports on your router and all connected network devices is a must these days, if you plan on streaming to multiple devices at once. You also want to make sure your router actually has a CPU that can handle this type of bandwidth, as a gigabit router with a crappy CPU is like a computer having a GTX Titan X coupled with a Celeron CPU.

As for cabling, Cat5e is just fine for full gigabit speeds, up to about 100ft. My network at home is a mixture of Cat5e, Cat6, and self-made 50ft Cat5e/6 cabling, because I'm cheap, yo.  Point is, I get full gigabit speeds when transferring files over the network, and, surprisingly, even the 10/100 megabit port on my 2004 Mac Mini that acts as my file server can handle streaming a 25GB+ Bluray MP4 file just fine. Streams from the Mac Mini (running HTTP with Apache2 on Debian) through my gigabit switch, through my R7000 router (running Tomato Shibby firmware) over the wifi to my gen 1 Chromecast.

My point is, you don't need Cat6 cabling, but if you're going to be re-wiring your house anyway, it doesn't hurt to install it.

[Jonathan W]

46 minutes ago, kirashi said:

1)

2)

3)

4)

My point is, you don't need Cat6 cabling, but if you're going to be re-wiring your house anyway, it doesn't hurt to install it.

 

Wow, firstly thank you a ton for the plethora of information haha, that was super helpful.

 

1] The main purpose of the network is to handle streaming within the house, when I plan to go away I'' make sure my devices are pre-loaded and I have a 128GB microSD card in my phone and in my tablet [my music folder alone is about 40GB these days lol] So i'm glad to know that it'll work without a service like PLEX

 

2] Since all the computers are connected directly together either by wifi or cable, I imagine that transfer/stream speeds will be just fine. But one thing you made me think of is compression..if I have a 1080p video stream coming from the server, how/what should I use to ensure a compressionless connection? I'll PROBABLY only be doing one streaming session at a time from the server to a client

 

3] I'm not super worried about streaming from outside the LAN, because like I said in 1, When I go on trips or whatever I normally have enough content preloaded for the trip or I'll spend the night before I leave making sure is downloaded to my laptop/phone/tablet

 

4] So there is a moderate chance that the house itself is wired in CAT5 [not 5e, sadly I still live at home as rent is astronomical around here for someone also in college, and my parents are very much "only get what you could ever need" types of people] would that seriously hurt the performance of the system? Should I try to run my own cable along the baseboards/moulding?

 

I was planning on getting CAT 6 cables because theyre not much more than CAT 5e cables on amazon and to have bandwidth to spare on the cable is always great

[Jonathan W]

Also, like the thread title says, I will need help picking out hardware  I found THIS switch that seems like a great value and a solid performer. Same for THIS Wireless AP, but i don't know hardly anything about networking hardware so plz halp

[kirashi]

16 minutes ago, Jonathan W said:

 

Wow, firstly thank you a ton for the plethora of information haha, that was super helpful.

 

2] if I have a 1080p video stream coming from the server, how/what should I use to ensure a compressionless connection?

 

4] So there is a moderate chance that the house itself is wired in CAT5 ... would that seriously hurt the performance of the system?

1

No problem, always happy to help.

 

2) To clarify, if you're going to be streaming by way of Remote Desktop sessions or VNC servers, there'a almost always going to be some kind of compression going on due to the nature of Remote Desktop. However, if you've got your server PC setup as a DLNA, iTunes Server, or just have the files accessible via SMB (file sharing) or HTTP, then whatever device you play them on shouldn't experience any compression.

This is how I stream to either my gen 1 Chromecast, or to VLC Media Player on another PC. I don't stream to Consoles any more as I find both Microsoft and Sony FAR TOO PICKY in what formats their consoles will actually play, so you'll have to test that out on your own. These days, it's much easier to have a PC hooked up to every TV in the house, even if it's something like the Intel ComputeStick. It's definitely not as elegant as just using your Console to do everything, but I'll be damned if I'm going to spend the time and effort setting up DLNA only to find out I need a PLEX server to re-encode all the files that should be supported by these "next gen" consoles.

 

4) If it's good Cat5 wiring, technically it should support gigabit as well. Cat5 is the minimum you need for gigabit, but a lot of people still will suggest upgrading to cat5e/6 to eliminate interference. You can give it a go with the networking cables you have wired up now and see if Windows reports your connection as 1000/gigabit instead of 10/100.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethernet_over_twisted_pair#Variants

Speed [Mbit/s]	Distance [m]	Name	Standard / Year	Description
Speed [Mbit/s]	Distance [m]	Name	Standard / Year	Description
1	100 (nominally)	StarLAN	802.3e 1986[15]	Runs over four wires (two twisted pairs) on telephone twisted pair or Category 3 cable. An active hub sits in the middle and has a port for each node. Manchester coded signaling.
10	100 (nominally)	LattisNet	(pre) 802.3i 1987	Runs over AT&T Premises Distribution System (PDS) wiring or four wires (two twisted pairs) on telephone twisted pair or Category 3 cable.[7][16]
10	100 (nominally)[17]	10BASE-T	802.3i 1990	Runs over four wires (two twisted pairs) on a Category 3 or Category 5 cable. Star topology with an active hub or switch sits in the middle and has a port for each node. This is also the configuration used for 100BASE-T and Gigabit Ethernet. Manchester coded signaling.
100	100	100BASE-TX	802.3u 1995	4B5B MLT-3 coded signaling, Category 5 cable copper cabling with two twisted pairs.
1,000	100	1000BASE‑T	802.3ab 1999	PAM-5 coded signaling. At least Category 5 cable with four twisted pairs copper cabling. Category 5 cable has since been deprecated and new installations use Category 5e. Each pair is used in both directions simultaneously.
2,500 5,000	100	2.5GBASE-T 5GBASE-T	802.3bz	Downscaled 10GBASE-T for Category 5e (2.5G) and Category 6 (5G) cabling
10,000	100	10GBASE‑T	802.3an 2006	THP PAM-16 coding. Uses category 6a cable.
25,000 40,000	≥30	25GBASE-T 40GBASE-T	802.3bq 2016[5]	Upscaled 10GBASE-T for proposed Cat 8.1/8.2 shielded cable

11 minutes ago, Jonathan W said:

Also, like the thread title says, I will need help picking out hardware  I found THIS switch that seems like a great value and a solid performer. Same for THIS Wireless AP, but i don't know hardly anything about networking hardware so plz halp

 

 

That switch is good, if you need a managed switch. Otherwise I'd pickup a more basic and consumer oriented switch and let your router/firewall do the configuration and DHCP for the network. Nope, nevermind, you americans seem to get way better deals on everything on Amazon.com... The unmanaged version of that switch costs more than the managed one.

Speaking of which... What are you using for a router/firewall?

 

As for a wireless AP, I'd straight up go for a Ubiquiti Networks AP for both reliability and range, but also because of the management interface. Linus actually did a video a while back on installing one of these at his wife's family members' house.
https://www.amazon.com/Ubiquiti-Networks-Enterprise-UAP-US/dp/B00HXT8R2O/ref=sr_1_1?s=pc&ie=UTF8&qid=1473284757&sr=1-1&keywords=ubiquiti+ap

 

[leadeater]

Plex or Open Media Vault is your best options for streaming video. RDP and VNC are geared for remote control rather than watching video/audio content so won't work well and device support for it is poor. Plex can be used through an app or web browser and just works internally and externally, it's not free however. Open Media Vault is free but not quite as quick and easy to setup.

 

The big caveat to Plex/Open Media Vault is that you need to download the actual video files, caching content isn't an option as that is local to the device/app only.

 

Everything @kirashi has said is spot on, Cat5e is fine and Ubiquiti is by far your best option for wireless APs.

[Jonathan W]

@kirashi Oh yeah I remember those videos..

and as far as 

What are you using for a router/firewall?

I have no fucking clue yet lol

 

[Jonathan W]

20 minutes ago, leadeater said:

Open Media Vault is your best options for streaming video.

See. The problem is that 90% or more of my content is accessed through a downloaded web client, and I don't believe that either one, VUDU or Google Play Music, supports Linux OS's [actually Google might but I know VUDU doesnt yet]

[Jonathan W]

The files I want to stream cannot be moved and accessed as individual files, they need to be played on the device they are downloaded onto, which is the NAS server. It's not so much that i'm trying to move files around between devices or computers it's more that I need the audio and video out of the NAS to be able to float around to wherever I decide, whether it be on a phone hooked up to the wifi network, or to the HTPC upstairs hooked up to the tv, or even across the states when that becomes possible

[kirashi]

32 minutes ago, Jonathan W said:

The files I want to stream cannot be moved and accessed as individual files, they need to be played on the device they are downloaded onto, which is the NAS server. It's not so much that i'm trying to move files around between devices or computers it's more that I need the audio and video out of the NAS to be able to float around to wherever I decide, whether it be on a phone hooked up to the wifi network, or to the HTPC upstairs hooked up to the tv, or even across the states when that becomes possible

 

 

Unfortunately, you aren't really able to stream content downloaded through a client/caching system as traditional files or through a PLEX Server because they are stored in an encrypted format (I believe) and decrypted on-the-fly through the Google Play App, VUDU player, or Spotify client. I feel your pain, as I'd love the ability to cache Netflix series for offline watching on my iPad when we go to the summer cabin every year.

Your only option there is to either store this content on the actual device you'd like to access it on (for example, a laptop you'd then hookup to your TV or carry room-to-room), or access it via some kind of Remote Desktop screen sharing system, which will result in compressed and choppy video frames.

 

I'm sorry I don't have any other options to suggest; this is a perfect case of DRM restricting you from legally watching content you've licensed because content publishers are more concerned about preventing piracy than allowing law-abiding citizens to consume content however they wish.

In my case, we have a cable subscription, but aren't always home to watch our shows on Sunday nights. We do not have a PVR/DVR to record our shows when we're away, so I opt to acquire them via other means, which is a legal grey area, since, technically speaking, we've already paid for the shows via our cable subscription. I'd be all for a PVR/DVR that let's me watch my recorded shows anywhere on any device at any time, but such a device does not exist on our Cable Provider's network yet. (Though I hear Comcast is sharing their DVR Anywhere technology with our ISP soon so...)

 

I think what you're effectively asking for is a SlingBox-like video capture device you could hook up to your server in order to watch the audio/video stream from the graphics card of the server from anywhere. (Basically the same thing SlingBox lets you do with your cable subscription, but for your PC instead.) I don't know of any device that allows you to do this as of yet, so I guess it's now playing the waiting game.

[leadeater]

1 hour ago, Jonathan W said:

The files I want to stream cannot be moved and accessed as individual files, they need to be played on the device they are downloaded onto, which is the NAS server. It's not so much that i'm trying to move files around between devices or computers it's more that I need the audio and video out of the NAS to be able to float around to wherever I decide, whether it be on a phone hooked up to the wifi network, or to the HTPC upstairs hooked up to the tv, or even across the states when that becomes possible

That is what Plex and Open Media Vault can do, your actual problem is the online services you use and not Plex etc. The services you are using basically are Plex with the ability to cache the video stream to the device for offline viewing. Being able to view that cached content from any device is next to impossible, at least with any acceptable viewing experience.

 

Having a NAS isn't really going to help at all. Unless you can set the location of the content cache for VUDU/Google Play it will be on the device not the NAS. Then to actually view that cached content you have to be able to remote view the screen on the device that cached it in the first place, which means a PC via RDP/VNC which will be terrible.

[Jonathan W]

25 minutes ago, leadeater said:

 

 

1 hour ago, kirashi said:

Unfortunately, you aren't really able to stream content downloaded through a client/caching system as traditional files or through a PLEX Server because they are stored in an encrypted format (I believe) and decrypted on-the-fly through the Google Play App, VUDU player, or Spotify client.

^^^^^
This is what i've been trying to say for why I can't use PLEX lol

 

 

So guys. Great news. This will work after all on Teamviewer..I just tried it. Streaming a 1080p episode of Brickleberry through VUDU to my gaming rig, then opened a TeamViewer session on my phone, connected to the PC, and just maximized the video on the computer. It fit the dimensions of my phone perfectly and there was no perceivable desynchronization of the audio and video. Video came out crystal clear. This will almost definitely not be nearly as buttery smooth trying to do it over the internet, but i'm happy to see it is possible lol. Sadly I don't have a video camera so I can't take a video for proof so you will have to take my word for it

[Jonathan W]

Now. I just need specific recommendations for hardware. a Gigabit Switch, a Wireless AP, a 2U or bigger MicroATX server enclosure that can hold at least 6 drives, and a Firewall

 

I know everyone says "just get a ubiquity" but I need like..product names bruh lol

[leadeater]

21 minutes ago, Jonathan W said:

So guys. Great news. This will work after all on Teamviewer..I just tried it. Streaming a 1080p episode of Brickleberry through VUDU to my gaming rig, then opened a TeamViewer session on my phone, connected to the PC, and just maximized the video on the computer. It fit the dimensions of my phone perfectly and there was no perceivable desynchronization of the audio and video. Video came out crystal clear. This will almost definitely not be nearly as buttery smooth trying to do it over the internet, but i'm happy to see it is possible lol. Sadly I don't have a video camera so I can't take a video for proof so you will have to take my word for it

Well that's good to hear, hopefully it's not too bad over the internet but then I guess why not just play it direct on the device using VUDU/Google Play? Don't really get the point of caching content to a single PC when you do have internet access and your accessing it remotely, surely getting it from the original source is better? Using it locally when the internet is out makes perfect sense.

 

10 minutes ago, Jonathan W said:

Now. I just need recommendations for hardware. a Gigabit Switch, a Wireless AP, a 2U or bigger MicroATX server enclosure that can hold at least 6 drives, and a Firewall

Ubiquiti AP AC Lite or Pro if you feel you need the higher model. As for the server is this going to run it's own Windows OS that you'll install TeamViewer on to? Firewall you don't really need anything fancy, a typical consumer all in one router has enough protection in it with NAT and port-forwarding.

[Jonathan W]

3 minutes ago, leadeater said:

Well that's good to hear, hopefully it's not too bad over the internet but then I guess why not just play it direct on the device using VUDU/Google Play? Don't really get the point of caching content to a single PC when you do have internet access and your accessing it remotely, surely getting it from the original source is better? Using it locally when the internet is out makes perfect sense.

7 hours ago, Jonathan W said:

3] I'm not super worried about streaming from outside the LAN, because like I said in 1, When I go on trips or whatever I normally have enough content preloaded for the trip or I'll spend the night before I leave making sure is downloaded to my laptop/phone/tablet

@leadeater lol

 

[Jonathan W]

Ignore

[leadeater]

2 minutes ago, Jonathan W said:

@leadeater lol

 

lol never mind then, missed that. Sounded like you also wanted to remotely stream from the server.

[Jonathan W]

Just now, leadeater said:

lol never mind then, missed that. Sounded like you also wanted to remotely stream from the server.

If I have the ability to do that, then that would be awesome, but if I can't, It's fine because that's not the core functionality I'm going for

[Jonathan W]

11 minutes ago, leadeater said:

Ubiquiti AP AC Lite or Pro if you feel you need the higher model. As for the server is this going to run it's own Windows OS that you'll install TeamViewer on to? Firewall you don't really need anything fancy, a typical consumer all in one router has enough protection in it with NAT and port-forwarding.

Do you have any other manufacturers you recommend? I like the flashy looks of ASUS "gaming" hardware but not if it's garbage hardware or way too expensive.

 

The server will probably just run Win 10 because my Parents can each get free Win 10 Pro disks from work and they're usually happy to give me one.

 

I don't know a damn thing about NEtworking gear, especially not Firewalls, so I'll probably need some hardware suggestions for that too

[Jonathan W]

OH! And I think i'll need a wifi adapter for the desktop upstairs. It's plugged in to the wall but I don't know that it'll be able to access my NAS through the wall cables

[leadeater]

23 minutes ago, Jonathan W said:

If I have the ability to do that, then that would be awesome, but if I can't, It's fine because that's not the core functionality I'm going for

You will be able to, give it a shot. No idea how good it will be, depends on how good your home internet is.

 

As for Ubiquiti vs Asus the difference is on the inside. Asus just looks flash but in terms of wireless technology and signal quality every Ubiquiti product is leagues better. However that being said these brands are in different markets and aren't competing with each other, the 'Asus type' products are designed for general home users which are simple to use and are also routers. Ubiquiti wireless APs only do wireless and nothing more, you need a dedicated router as well.

 

Ubiquiti: Small business

Asus/TP-Link/Linksys etc: Home users

 

Keeping it simple is good and there is often no reason to over complicate things, if you don't like the idea of the Ubiquiti products then don't use them and is a perfectly valid reason. Networking enthusiasts like myself as you have noticed will almost always throw Ubiquiti in to the mix if someone asks about a good wireless access point, even if it actually isn't the best solution for the person asking.

 

Currently the overall best all in one device for wireless that I'm aware of is the TP-Link C9, http://www.tp-link.us/products/details/Archer-C9.html. Unless you actually need a switch, either for distance or port count the TP-Link C9 is all that you will need.

 

Edit: Just re-looked over your original post, how open is that guest network? Does it require a wifi password (it should)? Having an open wireless network complicates things a lot isn't great security wise.

[leadeater]

11 minutes ago, Jonathan W said:

OH! And I think i'll need a wifi adapter for the desktop upstairs. It's plugged in to the wall but I don't know that it'll be able to access my NAS through the wall cables

Using cable will work and is better.

[Jonathan W]

1 minute ago, leadeater said:

Currently the overall best all in one device for wireless that I'm aware of is the TP-Link C9, http://www.tp-link.us/products/details/Archer-C9.html. Unless you actually need a switch, either for distance or port count the TP-Link C9 is all that you will need.

Eh, That's a little expensive for the project. I'd like to keep it under 100 for each device if I can, without sacrificing too much performance lol

[Jonathan W]

4 minutes ago, leadeater said:

As for Ubiquiti vs Asus the difference is on the inside. Asus just looks flash but in terms of wireless technology and signal quality every Ubiquiti product is leagues better. However that being said these brands are in different markets and aren't competing with each other, the 'Asus type' products are designed for general home users which are simple to use and are also routers. Ubiquiti wireless APs only do wireless and nothing more, you need a dedicated router as well.

I just prefer the hard edges and the gamery look of the ASUS routers. I don't know how they'd stack up against Ubiquity for this project, and if I'm going to lose substantial performance by going with the flashier option, i'd rather not go with the flashier option lol

[leadeater]

2 minutes ago, Jonathan W said:

Eh, That's a little expensive for the project. I'd like to keep it under 100 for each device if I can, without sacrificing too much performance lol

Well it may be the only thing you need to buy so cost wise may not be too bad. Do you actually need separate router/firewall + switch + wireless AP, defeats the purpose of the Asus/TP-Link etc products since they do it all in one device.