"Floppy disk with USB": does it exist?

[Stefan1024]

So at work we have some fancy measurement devices like a spectrum analyzer that can measure up to 26 GHz. They are quite old but still work perfectly fine.

 

BUT they only have a 3.5' floppy disk drive to exporte the measurement data what is a pain. However, we are no going to replace working devices that cost about 50 000$ each just because they don't have a USB plug.

Lately I was wondering if there is a device that looks and acts like a floppy disk, but is actually a flash drive. It could look kilt this (the disk on the photo is only a USB drive it can't emulate a floppy disk):

 

 

To make it working it have to have a magnetic interface too.

 

Does anybody knows if this exits and where one could buy it?

[iamdarkyoshi]

Can you not use a USB FDD reader?

[zMeul]

5 minutes ago, Stefan1024 said:

Lately I was wondering if there is a device that looks and acts like a floppy disk, but is actually a flash drive. It could look kilt this (the disk on the photo is only a USB drive it can't emulate a floppy disk):

 

To make it working it have to have a magnetic interface too.

something like that doesn't exists and can't exist

why? how / who / what  transfers the data from the magnetic storage to the flash drive?!

 

you can use something like this: http://www.amazon.co.uk/ESYNiC-External-Diskette-PC-Compatible-Windows/dp/B00BM4X032/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1457809704&sr=8-1-spons&keywords=usb+fdd&psc=1

[iamdarkyoshi]

1 minute ago, zMeul said:

something like that doesn't exists and can't exists

why? how / who transfers the data from the magnetic storage to the flash drive?!

 

you can use something like this: http://www.amazon.co.uk/ESYNiC-External-Diskette-PC-Compatible-Windows/dp/B00BM4X032/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1457809704&sr=8-1-spons&keywords=usb+fdd&psc=1

It could actually work if someone were to create hardware that could sense the motor spinning the disk and have a magnetic head in it to emulate the disk moving. But it really does not serve a useful purpose as you can just use regular disks and a reader.

[Stefan1024]

3 minutes ago, zMeul said:

something like that doesn't exists and can't exist

why? how / who / what  transfers the data from the magnetic storage to the flash drive?!

 

you can use something like this: http://www.amazon.co.uk/ESYNiC-External-Diskette-PC-Compatible-Windows/dp/B00BM4X032/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1457809704&sr=8-1-spons&keywords=usb+fdd&psc=1

It would requre some controller inside, but it is possible.

 

And we do use external drives at the moment. But it wuld be neat to have it in one device. Also it woulbe be possible to make a 8 Gbyte floppy disk.

 

2 minutes ago, iamdarkyoshi said:

It could actually work if someone were to create hardware that could sense the motor spinning the disk and have a magnetic head in it to emulate the disk moving. But it really does not serve a useful purpose as you can just use regular disks and a reader.

 

[zMeul]

Just now, iamdarkyoshi said:

It could actually work if someone were to create hardware that could sense the motor spinning the disk and have a magnetic head in it to emulate the disk moving. But it really does not serve a useful purpose as you can just use regular disks and a reader.

no you can't

the FDD unit head moves on the whole surface of the FDD and the engineering required to translate that would be enormous to fit in couple of millimeters

 

FDD controller deals in cylinders/heads/sectors while flash storage deals in address blocks 

[iamdarkyoshi]

4 minutes ago, zMeul said:

no you can't

the FDD unit head moves on the whole surface of the FDD and the engineering required to translate that would be enormous to fit in couple of millimeters

 

FDD controller deals in cylinders/heads/sectors while flash storage deals in address blocks 

The machine's head could follow the fake head on the inside of the disk, and it could be moved back and forth to follow the machine's head. It would not be easy though.

 

4 minutes ago, Stefan1024 said:

And we do use external drives at the moment. But it wuld be neat to have it in one device. Also it woulbe be possible to make a 8 Gbyte floppy disk.

I doubt it, all FDD are formatted to 1.44mb (in the size I assume we are talking about), and that would be what the machine expects to see. I think it MIGHT be possible to hack into the machine's FDD ribbon cable and make the machine think that a drive is connected, but in reality it is a USB connection direcly to the PC. That seems more reasonable and also seems like it would be easier.

 

TL;DR

find a way to emulate the drive itself, not the disk

[Stefan1024]

1 minute ago, zMeul said:

no you can't

the FDD unit head moves on the whole surface of the FDD and the engineering required to translate that would be enormous to fit in couple of millimeters

 

FDD controller deals in cylinders/heads/sectors while flash storage deals in address blocks 

The adress translation is not a big deal for a microcontroller, but the magnetic interface indeed is.

I'm shure it is possible if you send enougth money in R&D, but it looks like nobody bothered to do it.

[zMeul]

1 minute ago, iamdarkyoshi said:

The machine's head could follow the fake head on the inside of the disk, and it could be moved back and forth to follow the machine's head. It would not be easy though.

how would you know where the heads will move? you can't, unless you have a direct connection to the FDD controller - and that in itself defeats the purpose of this whole debate

[Stefan1024]

1 minute ago, iamdarkyoshi said:

I doubt it, all FDD are formatted to 1.44mb (in the size I assume we are talking about), and that would be what the machine expects to see. I think it MIGHT be possible to hack into the machine's FDD ribbon cable and make the machine think that a drive is connected, but in reality it is a USB connection direcly to the PC. That seems more reasonable and also seems like it would be easier.

 

TL;DR

find a way to emulate the drive itself, not the disk

You cound set it up that every time the 1.44 MB are reached it acts like a new empty disk was inserted.

 

There are floppy drives emulators, but a lot of the devices have the drive intrgrated into the front pannel and are not standart size.

[iamdarkyoshi]

1 minute ago, zMeul said:

how would you know where the heads will move? you can't, unless you have a direct connection to the FDD controller - and that in itself defeats the purpose of this whole debate

Make the disk mechanically attach the fake "disk head" to the machine's head. It would be possible but would probably cost more than its worth to engineer

[iamdarkyoshi]

1 minute ago, Stefan1024 said:

There are floppy drives emulators, but a lot of the devices have the drive intrgrated into the front pannel and are not standart size.

Since when has standard size been an issue? As long as you can get to the ribbon cable or whatever the machine uses, just run it out the front lol

[zMeul]

hmm .. I might be actually wrong because someone seems to have already build it: http://www.amazon.com/Viking-FDD-flash-memory-adapter/dp/B00004TENU

but the purpose of this is to transfer data from the flash to the FDD's heads

would it work the other way around?!  seriously doubt it

[Stefan1024]

3 minutes ago, iamdarkyoshi said:

Since when has standard size been an issue? As long as you can get to the ribbon cable or whatever the machine uses, just run it out the front lol

They will be send back to the manufacturer for calibartion from time to time. Also the less times times you have to open this devices the better. When dealing with >10 GHz physical dimensions matters a lot. Move a connector by 0.5 mm and you can recalibrate the device.

[iamdarkyoshi]

3 minutes ago, Stefan1024 said:

They will be send back to the manufacturer for calibartion from time to time. Also the less times times you have to open this devices the better. When dealing with >10 GHz physical dimensions matters a lot. Move a connector by 0.5 mm and you can recalibrate the device.

Right. I wish they had a user replaceable FDD drive. 

[zMeul]

there's one other way: remove the FDD altogether and replace it with "something" that mimics the existence of a FDD but actually writes to a flash drive

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Fusb-Simulate-Floppy-To-USB-Converter-USB-Floppy-Drive-Emulator-For-Shima-Seiki-/221578186865

[Stefan1024]

7 minutes ago, zMeul said:

hmm .. I might be actually wrong because someone seems to have already build it: http://www.amazon.com/Viking-FDD-flash-memory-adapter/dp/B00004TENU

but the purpose of this is to transfer data from the flash to the FDD's heads

would it work the other way around?!  seriously doubt it

This looks interesting, but as you said they are designed for the other way around.

[iamdarkyoshi]

1 minute ago, zMeul said:

there's one other way: remove the FDD altogether and replace it with "something" that mimics the existence of a FDD but actually writes to a flash drive

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Fusb-Simulate-Floppy-To-USB-Converter-USB-Floppy-Drive-Emulator-For-Shima-Seiki-/221578186865

That was my idea, though he said that:

 

1. The machine needs regular calibration, and with high frequency stuff, you dont want to tamper with it

 

2: They do not use standard sizes for things.

 

OP, I would get one and try it in a spare machine, try to figure out a way to fit it into the machine, and then have it recalibrated.

[Stefan1024]

1 minute ago, zMeul said:

there's one other way: remove the FDD altogether and replace it with "something" that mimics the existence of a FDD but actually writes to a flash drive

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Fusb-Simulate-Floppy-To-USB-Converter-USB-Floppy-Drive-Emulator-For-Shima-Seiki-/221578186865

Yes this are the once iamdarkyoshi suggested. Sadly they don't fit.

[zMeul]

1 minute ago, Stefan1024 said:

This looks interesting, but as you said they are designed for the other way around.

check my previous post, that's more interesting

 

[iamdarkyoshi]

1 minute ago, Stefan1024 said:

Yes this are the once iamdarkyoshi suggested. Sadly they don't fit.

Inside them is just a basic PCB. If you can make a friggin passively cooled PC, you can take apart one of these and retrofit the PCB into the existing FDD

[Stefan1024]

1 minute ago, iamdarkyoshi said:

Inside them is just a basic PCB. If you can make a friggin passively cooled PC, you can take apart one of these and retrofit the PCB into the existing FDD

I could, but I'm not the person in charge to take care of this devices. So I can't simply take a screw driver and modify them

Until we have a seamless solution we will keep using the regular floppy disks and USB floppy drives.

[zMeul]

7 minutes ago, iamdarkyoshi said:

That was my idea, though he said that:

 

1. The machine needs regular calibration, and with high frequency stuff, you dont want to tamper with it

 

2: They do not use standard sizes for things.

 

OP, I would get one and try it in a spare machine, try to figure out a way to fit it into the machine, and then have it recalibrated.

way to many post to keep track of 

 

---

 

fit them externally with a extension cable? http://www.ebay.com/itm/24-inch-34-Pin-IDC-Floppy-Drive-Ribbon-Extension-Cable-Cord-CablesOnline-FF-004-/270837785829

[iamdarkyoshi]

1 minute ago, Stefan1024 said:

I could, but I'm not the person in charge to take care of this devices. So I can't simply take a screw driver and modify them

Until we have a seamless solution we will keep using the regular floppy disks and USB floppy drives.

I would talk to the person in charge of them and see if they would look into it. Maybe somewhere there is a spare one that does not work or is in need of calibration you could try tampering with?

[Stefan1024]

Just now, iamdarkyoshi said:

I would talk to the person in charge of them and see if they would look into it. Maybe somewhere there is a spare one that does not work or is in need of calibration you could try tampering with?

This is possible, but I don't like to spend to much time for something supposed to save me 2 minutes per day.