Wifi Extender Through Powerline?

[KeithD]

In our flat, the kitchen gets awful signal. We don't want to run a coaxial cable through the place so we were thinking of getting a powerline adapter which can get the internet signal through the powerlines and omit a wireless signal in the kitchen where it is plugged in. However, these are quite expensive.

 

I have a generic powerline kit (one that outputs to an ethernet port: http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00QTG4J9C), so would it be possible to essentially turn the ethernet output of our existing powerline adapter into a wireless signal? Basically I want a router that stays on the same network. Hope this makes sense.

 

However, if anyone knows of a cheap wireless extender that runs through the powerline then that works too!

[The Cool n00B]

Sure you can.

[burnttoastnice]

-snippity snip-

However, if anyone knows of a cheap wireless extender that runs through the powerline then that works too!

 

Netgear WN-3000RP. I have the older chunkier version. It can either take or provide internet access via the ethernet port, but it's only 2.4GHz.

[KeithD]

Netgear WN-3000RP. I have the older chunkier version. It can either take or provide internet access via the ethernet port, but it's only 2.4GHz.

 

That seems to be a repeater only which wouldn't work as I currently get very weak signal (if any) in the kitchen - hence why I think I'd need to run the signal through the powerlines.

[burnttoastnice]

That seems to be a repeater only which wouldn't work as I currently get very weak signal (if any) in the kitchen - hence why I think I'd need to run the signal through the powerlines.

My model can function as a router, if in the setup you select Ethernet as the WAN connection. In your scenario, you could connect the WN-3000RP to your powerline via Ethernet, then when connecting to the WN-3000RP for the first time, set it to take in internet from the Ethernet port.

BTW, the Ethernet port is 100Mbit, not gigabit unfortunately.

[yzbd]

If possible, take a look into Moca network adapters which are normally faster then powerline. A quick Google search can provide you with all the info and can reach higher speeds over powerline depending on your home/network.

[skywake]

Don't expect to get a low latency connection from it but compared to the other options? It works very well. Much better than a traditional range extender. I'd also add that the suggestions for moca/coax network adapters? That stuff is pretty stagnant and is a hell of a lot less versatile. There really isn't much debate on this one, Powerline is by far the best option for extending a wireless network... other than Ethernet.

 

Anyways, two ways to go about this. You can either go out and buy a powerline kit and an access point as two seperate things. Which is probably the way I'd personally go about it. More options on the market and you can decide where your money goes. Alternatively there are all-in-one kits that do this for you. Less options but it's simpler... actually I think there's only one option I know of. It's a D-Link AV500/N300 combo unit and you can get it in a kit combined with an AV500 adapter. Which I would say is precisely the piece of gear you were looking for.

[TheProfosist]

If possible, take a look into Moca network adapters which are normally faster then powerline. A quick Google search can provide you with all the info and can reach higher speeds over powerline depending on your home/network.

yes they are better but also more expensive, far less prevalent, and less universal.

[TheProfosist]

think of Powerline as a virtual switch. So yes hook up powerline and then a access point or router in access point mode to it. It will be limited by the speed of the powerline which degrades quite quickly. Also make sure if you get say a 500mbps kit that it actually has a gigabit port on it otherwise your still limited to 100mbps.

[skywake]

think of Powerline as a virtual switch. So yes hook up powerline and then a access point or router in access point mode to it. It will be limited by the speed of the powerline which degrades quite quickly. Also make sure if you get say a 500mbps kit that it actually has a gigabit port on it otherwise your still limited to 100mbps.

It doesn't really make a difference, an AV500 kit will pretty much always be running at less than 100Mbps anyways. The numbers on the box for powerline are worked out in a similar way to the numbers you get for wireless gear. They're not actually running at that speed. As a yardstick when they say a number on the box divide it by 2 (they add UL + DL) and then take about 1/3rd of the number. The number you'll end up with will be closer to the mark.

[TheProfosist]

It doesn't really make a difference, an AV500 kit will pretty much always be running at less than 100Mbps anyways. The numbers on the box for powerline are worked out in a similar way to the numbers you get for wireless gear. They're not actually running at that speed. As a yardstick when they say a number on the box divide it by 2 (they add UL + DL) and then take about 1/3rd of the number. The number you'll end up with will be closer to the mark.

I understand that I have two TP link 500mbps kits and two if not 3 of the 4 exceed 100mbps. yes I did pay extra to get the ones with the gigabit ports on them.

Basically the devices connected only have N which isnt capable of enough bandwidth for what I need. Powerline easily does with more stable connection and better latency.

[yzbd]

yes they are better but also more expensive, far less prevalent, and less universal.

 

It really depends, but something like in the link below would do what the OP needs for around $100 bucks. Just thought I throw the idea out there to the OP, doesn't hurt to have some other ideas on how it could be setup. 

 

Link: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=0ED-0011-00002

[skywake]

I understand that I have two TP link 500mbps kits and two if not 3 of the 4 exceed 100mbps. yes I did pay extra to get the ones with the gigabit ports on them.

Basically the devices connected only have N which isnt capable of enough bandwidth for what I need. Powerline easily does with more stable connection and better latency.

Well for the first bit.....

 

Which you might think of as a (small) win for the "it's more than 100Mbps" argument until you read the methodology.

 

• Location A: The two adapters under test are plugged into the same wall outlet or two outlets in the same outlet strip.
• Location C: One adapter in Location A outlet. Second adapter in living room, one floor up and middle of home
• Location E: One adapter in Location A outlet. Outlet in kitchen, one floor up and opposite end of home

I'd argue that if you're putting it in a situation like Location A? It's a decent benchmark but not really something you'd do. Unless it's on the other side of a wall if you're doing that you'd be better off just running a short cable. So Location C is probably the most realistic benchmark for most people. And none of the AV500 adapters get anywhere near 100Mbps.

 

And it's a similar deal with N300 (and N600 to some degree). You won't go above 100Mbps when you're actually using it so that's not really a bottleneck. If there are any claims that it's "better" then it's going to be a placebo. Although I will also point out the speeds in "location E" here vs the powerline one. That's the key difference.

 

 

As for the better latency argument? Well I've done some of my own tests and really it depends. When the wireless signal was fading away powerline was better on every measure. Latency, bandwidth, the whole lot. But closer to the router? When the wireless signal was working? Wireless had lower and more consistent pings. I don't have a graph like the above to prove this because nobody really bothers to test this. People are more interested in bandwidth. But you can test it yourself if you really want to. Do some science, measure it, come back with some numbers.

 

tl;dr

- Powerline makes for a better backhaul for range extention than wireless

- Powerline works better at longer distances than wireless does

- You need to go above AV500 and N300 before 100Mbps is a bottleneck

- Don't repeat conventional wisdom unless you can back yourself up with evidence

[skywake]

Actually, bugger it. I'll do some latency benchmarks of my own gear. Pings are to my router from an old little Netbook running Ubuntu. It has an N150 wireless card and a 100Mbps Ethernet port.  My wireless access point is an AC1200 one from D-Link which is a couple of brick walls and about 10m away from where I'm sitting. Powerline adapter is a Netgear AV200 kit and the distance is about the same. Firstly, for science, here's what I get from Ethernet connected directly to a switch on my network.

50 packets transmitted, 50 received, 0% packet loss, time 49063msrtt min/avg/max/mdev = 0.840/0.962/1.254/0.084 ms

Here's the benchmark of my powerline adapter from where it currently is. 

50 packets transmitted, 50 received, 0% packet loss, time 49081msrtt min/avg/max/mdev = 3.747/4.817/20.578/2.413 ms

And here's the same for WiFi. From the same location.

50 packets transmitted, 50 received, 0% packet loss, time 49090msrtt min/avg/max/mdev = 1.511/2.141/9.584/1.254 ms

Lower minimum pings, maximums, averages and variation on WiFi.

[KeithD]

Really, speed isn't a massive issue. We get about 160Mbps down with a decent wireless card, and our phones can usually manage about 100-120Mbps. Really, we just want a decent signal (preferably 5GHz, but not required) in the kitchen - whether it is above or below 100Mbps won't really matter.

 

It does seem there are kits that are available for around £40 (http://www.amazon.co.uk/TP-LINK-TL-WPA4220KIT-Powerline-Configuration-Smartphone/dp/B00DHB2T44/) that do what I want - but really I was hoping there may be a simple solution where I can use my regular powerline kits (which I already own, linked in OP) and attach the ethernet output to a 'router' of sorts which converts it into a wireless signal but using the same network. Is there a cheaper solution than spending £40 on this new piece of kit?

[Fhait]

Really, speed isn't a massive issue. We get about 160Mbps down with a decent wireless card, and our phones can usually manage about 100-120Mbps. Really, we just want a decent signal (preferably 5GHz, but not required) in the kitchen - whether it is above or below 100Mbps won't really matter.

 

It does seem there are kits that are available for around £40 (http://www.amazon.co.uk/TP-LINK-TL-WPA4220KIT-Powerline-Configuration-Smartphone/dp/B00DHB2T44/) that do what I want - but really I was hoping there may be a simple solution where I can use my regular powerline kits (which I already own, linked in OP) and attach the ethernet output to a 'router' of sorts which converts it into a wireless signal but using the same network. Is there a cheaper solution than spending £40 on this new piece of kit?

 

What you need in this case is a wireless 'BRIDGE'. Like you suggested you hang the bridge off the end of the powerline module in your kitchen and it bridges the wireless connection down to your existing router for DHCP/etc. However, you have now consumed another power outlet so you need to decide whether or not that is worth the 40 pounds minus whatever you pay for the bridge.

 

Most(possibly all)  Linksys equipment I've seen can run in bridge mode. (you don't even have to configure anything, you just DONT enable/configure any of the DHCP/routing stuff)

 

Other vendors you'll need to check on individually as I've never used any of them in bridge mode. The DLINK wireless router I used to use COULD NOT bridge however so don't assume that every vendor can do both.

 

= F

[skywake]

Really, speed isn't a massive issue. We get about 160Mbps down with a decent wireless card, and our phones can usually manage about 100-120Mbps. Really, we just want a decent signal (preferably 5GHz, but not required) in the kitchen - whether it is above or below 100Mbps won't really matter.

 

It does seem there are kits that are available for around £40 (http://www.amazon.co.uk/TP-LINK-TL-WPA4220KIT-Powerline-Configuration-Smartphone/dp/B00DHB2T44/) that do what I want - but really I was hoping there may be a simple solution where I can use my regular powerline kits (which I already own, linked in OP) and attach the ethernet output to a 'router' of sorts which converts it into a wireless signal but using the same network. Is there a cheaper solution than spending £40 on this new piece of kit?

Out of fear of bombarding you further with conflicting messages. Yes, this is possible and I did say this was one of two ways to go about it. I must have misread where you said you already had a powerline kit. That's why I pointed out the all-in-one option. Sorry for that. Although I will point out that you can get that AV500/N300 combo unit outside of a kit if that is a route you do want to go.

 

Either way, basically what you need is an access point. What spec that access point is is a matter for you to work out. However given you have an AV500 kit and want 5Ghz? N600 is probably what you're after but truth be told 2.4Ghz N300 will probably do. The real trick is finding one that can work as an access point, the market is flooded with crap that only works as a range extender. Especially at lower price points. After doing a quick search on amazon uk these are what I think are your two best options:

 

Netgear AC750, plugs into the wall which may or may not be an advantage. The key thing though is that this particular model can be configured as an access point: 

http://www.amazon.co.uk/NETGEAR-EX6100-100UKS-AC750-Extender-Booster/dp/B00I15EAIO/ref=sr_1_29?s=computers&ie=UTF8&qid=1441679965&sr=1-29

 

TP-LINK N300, is it's own unit. Happens to also support PoE which means you'll be able to be more flexible where you place it. The drawback is that it's only N300 but I don't think that'll be much of a bottleneck anyways. As I explained above

http://www.amazon.co.uk/TP-LINK-TL-WA901ND-Advanced-300Mbps-Wireless/dp/B002YETVXC/ref=sr_1_21?s=computers&ie=UTF8&qid=1441679896&sr=1-21

 

 

What you do is you get one of those and then set the SSID, password and so on to the same as your router. Make sure that whatever you get is setup as an access point not as a range extender. Plug it in to your powerline adapter. That's it. I had this same setup, including powerline, for a while and it does the job reasonably well. Better than a range extender but not as good as running Ethernet. More people should be doing this rather than pouring money into "better" routers. I'm only vocal about this because I've already done all of the trial and error