Tower Builds

[JH2468]

- Are you buying in at least three days?

Maybe, but unlikely. Closer to 2-3wks. Need to do the proper research and design before I can even know what to purchase.

I am completely new to computer building. In fact, a week ago I didn't know anything about most hardware you find around, let alone all of what seemed to be the complicated sight inside my old towers, ha ha. Given my disclaimer, please bear with me and my ignorance. I am trying to learn all I can as fast as possible! But, of course, I am left with some questions and ineptitude.

PC Builds

- Budget: 3-5k each; 6-10k Total.

- Zip Code or Location: US

- Specific Use: Computer 1: Normal Mic Office work(On a regular basis, I have as many as 15 Word Docs, 5-10 wordpad Docs, 4 or 5 Excel, 10-15 .pdf's in Adobe; some of which are many tens of thousands of pages long being dictionaries.) heavy internet use(I can have as many as 500 tabs open at once, a lot of them streaming video, and it is hard on my CPU), light gaming, stability, reliability, OC, versatility, future compatibility, and potential for longevity in the mid-range(5-15yrs). I need to be able to do all of the Mic Office stuff listed here and the internet usage at the same time. I can close them both when playing games although, I would like not to if such was reasonable and capable.
Computer 2: Although I know entirely less about this and it's purpose, the idea on this machine is for video editing, rendering, especially with high bit rate, and 4k raw editing and rendering, etc. For gaming, heavy OC,  and any other more intensive application as well as potential to meet the demands of future applications and tasks. Similarly, also, the potential for longevity in the mid-range(5-15yrs).

- Any preferred components?: Nope. Starting from scratch and I will look at everything and check it specifically. From my research I have selected a few things though.
 

Computer 1:
CPU: Intel i7 5960x Extreme Processor
Mobo: Asus LGA2011 v3 x99-E WS
Memory: CORSAIR DOMINATOR Platinum 16GB(4x4GB) SDRAM DDR4 2666
GPU: PNY VCGGTX7702XPB-OC GTX 770 2GB OC 256-bit GDDR5

-Split Decisions-
PSU: CORSAIR AX1500i 1500W ATX12V Full Modular Power Supply80 PLUS Titanium
      VERSUS CORSAIR AX1200i 1200W ATX12V v2.31  80 PLUS PLATINUM Full Modular
The idea here being, I have heard a bit of talk about power supplies with higher load expectations being rated for performance at those higher loads and below lower loads(I believe either 15, 20 or 25% I can't remember) they are not performance rated. I don't know the total wattage of this system yet, but I would like to know where the sweet spot lies for power performance and efficiency under regular loads, while not limiting myself for future component additions and upgrades and their subsequent higher loads(considering all of the PCIe expansion available on the WS-E mobo!)

Computer 2:
CPU: Intel i7 5960x Extreme Processor
Mobo: Asus LGA2011 v3 ROG Rampage V Extreme x99
PSU: CORSAIR AX1500i 1500W ATX12V Full Modular Power Supply80 PLUS Titanium

-Split Decisions-
GPU: ASUS ROG MARS760-4GD5 GTX 760x2 4GB 512-Bit GDDR5
      VERSUS ASUS MATRIX-GTX980-P-4GD5 GTX 980 4GB 256-Bit GDDR5
Keeping in mind that this machine is for video editing and rendering,the indecision comes from the 760 having 2304 Stream Processors/CC at 512bit rate and the 980 has 2048 Stream Processors/CC at 256bit rate. I had heard that for my purposes, more cuda cores are good because certain editing software will tap into those resources thus having an expanded capacity. I have also heard that with 4k video editing and rendering it will be beneficial for the highest bit rate that is possible. But I have also heard that it makes no sense(from gaming review sites and others like it that are more oriented toward gaming) to buy below the current PCB if one can afford it. Since the 980 is a new PCB I just need to know if the benefits of having a few hundred extra cores, and a bit rate that is twice as large, will surpass the 980's PCB improvements. Also, I would be willing to hear any compelling case for anything beyond these GPU solutions in terms of price or performance. For me, it is more important that the need be met than the price be conservative. Although I am not sure I would be adequate, myself, in relating those needs.

Memory: CORSAIR Vengeance LPX 32GB (4x8) SDRAM DDR4 2133
      VERSUS CORSAIR DOMINATOR Platinum 16GB (4x4) SDRAM DDR4 2666
The idea here is that the Dominator has a higher frequency at 2666, as well as being the dominator platform, and about $100 cheaper than the Vengeance platform. But the Vengeance platform as a shear doubling of the DRAM and can be overclocked. From reviews involving bench testing (from gaming review/ gaming oriented sites)  I saw that the latency/CL and the higher frequency actually cancel each other out(DDR3). Considering my purposes are different than for gaming, would there be a difference in what I would select over a gamer and is there an inherent difference in these aspects when considering DDR4 memory? I also saw from benchmark testing that the 16GB and the 32GB didn't perform much differently, whereas the 64GB made a very big difference(also from DDR3). So on the one hand the dominator is more robust and higher grade, it's clocked at 2666, it's cheaper, it's not that different from 32GB when DDR3; and on the other hand vengence is overclockable which can make up for higher frequency, and it is only 32GB and not 64GB, and it is more expensive and at a bit rate half as large. I would also consider anything that was so cheap that money saved for an upgrade in the future could suffice, or any hardware that can best fit the video editing and rendering, and performance in the face of future demands intent of this system even if it was expensive.

- Any spare parts you can re-use?: Not likely. The three older towers I own don't even have Serial ATA so, not likely, lol. I even found out that windows no longer supports XP updates and so I could not update the installation files necessary for installing the new operating system on top of the older one. But by that time, I was less interested in trying to make this older, huge, inefficient, and certainly dated machinery work for my needs. Doing tasks beyond what my current laptop is struggling to do.

- Overclocking your processor?: Yes, on both machines.

- Need an Operating System?: Yes. Windows 7 will suffice until Windows 10 is available. Although, I had heard that you can install multiple operating systems on one machine so, I thought, why not add 8.1 as well.

- Need a Monitor? / Mouse? / Keyboard?: Yes, 4 total. (1: for the living room, 1: for the RVE; 4k video editing, and 2: for the WS-E) / No(RVE) Yes(WS-E), and / Yes(RVE) Yes(WS-E).

- Need a Wireless Card or Adapter?: If this let's the computer recognize a USB network adapter then yes; if it IS the network adapter, no.

 

- Need Another Component? (Specify): Well, here's where it starts to get tricky for me. I don't know the needs and can barely define the demand of the work, as I've always been forced to do less than I want to at once. The nature of my work involves a lot of internet, Mic Office and Adobe documents. Normally, I use my firefox browser's group tabs to help me keep down the constant demand from my system. I have found downloading the videos with the youtube download extension to be helpful. But, I heard there was software that allowed you to store websites for offline viewing, This would be great! And any other software that allowed me to take video from anywhere rather than simply from youtube. 

 

I would like for a group of maybe 50-100 people, some from different states, to be able to access certain files, with about 10 of them being on site/with me. I was considering something like the NAS device. I would also like to consider back up and, to a lesser extent, RAID options/solutions with the consideration of buying multiple NAS devices(the second can be in time if too expensive).

I was also considering: an NFC Express 2, and NZXT Aperture M Card Reader(plus whatever other drives you suggest) for the RVE, and depending on whether or not it would be useful an SDXC memory card for 4k video.

Other Useful Info

- Preferred Case Features (Ex: Color, Side Window, Flashy):

I would very much like it if there was a side window. And any cooling/fan needs met; including filters for intake fans.

 

I would like for someone to give me a proper perspective on what you should look for in a case beyond the right size. Is there any practical difference between putting your HD's in specific places relative to each other? Should there be a fan between drives? Which way should the fan point if so. Should the case be closer to completely meshed/ screen all over OR closer to completely closed with only the fan openings allowing for the exchange of air? Does it even make a difference one way or the other? I have heard that you want there to be less air going out than coming in(positive case pressure). But intuitively I want to allow for air to come into the case. So, does one preclude the other? I have a very preliminary idea as to how I was going to lay out my fans and components. I have also been introduced to the idea of running your intake fans at speeds greater than those of your output, does this make it not matter what the style of your case is; whether mesh or more closed? Is there any practical difference between putting your optical drives at the top or the bottom? Some cases it looks like the HD's mounting brackets are in the way all the way to the bottom of the case.

 

If there was a handle and feet/risers they would be welcome additions.

 

- Number of Monitors: 4 total. (1: for the living room, 1: for the RVE; 4k video editing, and 2: for the WS-E)

- Other Info?: At this point I can't think of any. Thanks for sticking with me for this long!
 

 If there are any suggestions, comments, advice, tips, warnings etc, especially those form fitted to what I have decided so far, such would be greatly appreciated! Thanks for your help and your patience with me and my goobels and gobbels of ignorance!

 

 

[Superfichtig]

Computer 2:

 

personally i think it makes more sense on spending more money on the edeting system than on the ms office one. however this is the first i came up with

CPU horsepower, enough Ram, the best professional/mainstream gpu you can get (also has double precision), one fast boot drive, one massstorage and one local back up drive.

Bulky and non shiny case but eeeeh, you need to fit all that horsepower.

 

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

 

CPU: Intel Core i7-5960X 3.0GHz 8-Core Processor  ($1004.99 @ SuperBiiz) 

CPU Cooler: NZXT Kraken X61 106.1 CFM Liquid CPU Cooler  ($128.99 @ SuperBiiz) 

Motherboard: Asus X99-E WS SSI CEB LGA2011-3 Motherboard  ($499.99 @ SuperBiiz) 

Memory: Corsair Dominator Platinum 64GB (8 x 8GB) DDR4-2666 Memory  ($1469.99 @ Amazon) 

Storage: Samsung 850 Pro Series 512GB 2.5" Solid State Drive  ($289.98 @ OutletPC) 

Storage: Western Digital Red 3TB 3.5" 5400RPM Internal Hard Drive  ($114.00 @ B&H) 

Storage: Western Digital Red 3TB 3.5" 5400RPM Internal Hard Drive  ($114.00 @ B&H) 

Video Card: EVGA GeForce GTX Titan Z 12GB Superclocked Video Card  ($1598.99 @ SuperBiiz) 

Case: Cooler Master Cosmos II (Black) ATX Full Tower Case

Power Supply: Corsair 1000W 80+ Platinum Certified Fully-Modular ATX Power Supply  ($199.99 @ Amazon) 

Operating System: Microsoft Windows 8.1 (OEM) (64-bit)  ($87.75 @ OutletPC) 

Total: $5508.67

Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available

Generated by PCPartPicker 2015-02-20 16:26 EST-0500

 

Computer 1:

 

all the multitasking may be a heavy workload but i would not go the X99 route on this one. because you are adding too much costs and the performance improvements would not raise equally as the price tag. still one great cpu, enough ram, great gpu for gaming and rendering, enough storage, and overall looks more shiny, eh?

 

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

 

CPU: Intel Core i7-4790K 4.0GHz Quad-Core Processor  ($319.73 @ OutletPC) 

CPU Cooler: NZXT Kraken X41 106.1 CFM Liquid CPU Cooler  ($94.99 @ NCIX US) 

Motherboard: MSI Z97-GAMING 7 ATX LGA1150 Motherboard  ($169.99 @ Amazon) 

Memory: Kingston Beast 32GB (4 x 8GB) DDR3-1600 Memory  ($272.00 @ Amazon) 

Storage: Samsung 850 Pro Series 256GB 2.5" Solid State Drive  ($158.78 @ OutletPC) 

Storage: Western Digital WD Green 2TB 3.5" 5400RPM Internal Hard Drive  ($69.99 @ Amazon) 

Storage: Western Digital WD Green 2TB 3.5" 5400RPM Internal Hard Drive  ($69.99 @ Amazon) 

Video Card: Asus GeForce GTX 980 4GB STRIX Video Card  ($544.99 @ SuperBiiz) 

Case: Fractal Design Define R5 w/Window (Black) ATX Mid Tower Case  ($117.99 @ SuperBiiz) 

Power Supply: SeaSonic 650W 80+ Gold Certified Semi-Modular ATX Power Supply  ($93.99 @ SuperBiiz) 

Operating System: Microsoft Windows 8.1 (OEM) (64-bit)  ($87.75 @ OutletPC) 

Total: $2000.19

Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available

Generated by PCPartPicker 2015-02-20 16:47 EST-0500

 

 

 

EDIT: i would go 1x 4k monitor for the video ed. rig, 1x 1440p for the living room and 2x standard 27" 1080p for your basic multitasking stuff.

 

4k monitor:

http://pcpartpicker.com/part/asus-monitor-pb287qthis one is decent and should be suiting you well, however i dont know exactly your needs so i am unsure what i shall recommend exactly..

 

just make 2 more threads please! one for your monitor setup and the second one for the peripherals. 

 

however very interesting and good luck!

[JH2468]

This is by no means my full response, but in order to make this more efficient. I would like to apologize for having missed something in what I want.

 

I am seeing the price be misunderstood if you are not taking into account that most of the Z97 series boards(and specifically the z97 gaming 5) use a VRM with only 4 true phases, although claims of 8 phases, it is a virtual 8 by way of doubling.(http://cdn.overclock.net/0/07/900x900px-LL-071b2d45_1.png) Something manufacturers in recent years have been ridiculed for. Asus x99 boards say: " Combining the most advanced VRM to date with new component selections ideal for Haswell-E," in addition to the Haswell architecture using the new x99 chipset, and being specifically made for overclocking as a novice with capacity for more advanced controls once the novice learns more, I feel the selection of motherboards and processors to be pretty close if not exactly what I am going for.

 

It is more important that communication between these parts and future parts occur than any performance at all. So, yes, this computer is being built to work, but it is being built keeping in mind the next decade of technological and parts advances. But, I can swing some things around to find the money or cut out other less useful stuff. The ROG computer is not going to pay for itself. It is simply going to be something that our work can not live without, the ability to make videos etc. But the WS will pay for itself many times over in performance considering the particular reason I am buying this computer: the future/versatility and comparable performance through those 5-15 yrs. The ROG, although it can do the same thing, we have maybe 5% the workload to go onto it than we do for the WS.

 

So, what if we could outright, buy the ROG as you put it, but we took a lot of time checking up on those two motherboards and feel they are matched better with the WS for the office work and the ROG for any high intensity work. Keeping in mind, this will all be in one place where the parts can be interchanged based on sensibility and capacity. If I want to use something, I am not beyond taking it from one computer to serve my purpose until it is done and then I can put it back into the rig it was initially set up in. Instead of changing the parts I have decided on already to save in price, suggest away all of those that might inflate the price, but keep in mind we would like to spend around the amount listed. *Worry less about price* although we are obviously limited so don't leave comments SIMPLY intending to spend more.

 

This may not make sense, however, I have another variable taking into account that I don't want to argue about but need to have it impact. Imagine I wont have any more money after this shot, and imagine there is no upgrade to be had. This system is a parody build for a financial collapse of the USD. So, effectively, I need to cover both being able to buy and build-in upgrades if there is no collapse, as well as covering what all to get if this is my only purchase for 5-15 years if there was to be a collapse. Sorry if this seems absurd, but I would really appreciate the help none the less! Thanks!

[stconquest]

wtf is going on here?

 

16 GB of RAM, way overpriced GPUs, no worksation grade cards...

 

Just glanced... you better do some research.  You won't be ready to buy in three days.  Okay, 3 weeks....use that time to get familiar with what programs you will use and what hardware benefits them.

 

I wish I had more time, but I do not.  I like researching.  Hopefully some members here will help you more.

 

Why would you ever have 500 tabs open?

[stconquest]

This is by no means my full response, but in order to make this more efficient. I would like to apologize for having missed something in what I want.

 

I am seeing the price be misunderstood if you are not taking into account that most of the Z97 series boards(and specifically the z97 gaming 5) use a VRM with only 4 true phases, although claims of 8 phases, it is a virtual 8 by way of doubling.(http://cdn.overclock.net/0/07/900x900px-LL-071b2d45_1.png) Something manufacturers in recent years have been ridiculed for. Asus x99 boards say: " Combining the most advanced VRM to date with new component selections ideal for Haswell-E," in addition to the Haswell architecture using the new x99 chipset, and being specifically made for overclocking as a novice with capacity for more advanced controls once the novice learns more, I feel the selection of motherboards and processors to be pretty close if not exactly what I am going for.

 

It is more important that communication between these parts and future parts occur than any performance at all. So, yes, this computer is being built to work, but it is being built keeping in mind the next decade of technological and parts advances. But, I can swing some things around to find the money or cut out other less useful stuff. The ROG computer is not going to pay for itself. It is simply going to be something that our work can not live without, the ability to make videos etc. But the WS will pay for itself many times over in performance considering the particular reason I am buying this computer: the future/versatility and comparable performance through those 5-15 yrs. The ROG, although it can do the same thing, we have maybe 5% the workload to go onto it than we do for the WS.

 

So, what if we could outright, buy the ROG as you put it, but we took a lot of time checking up on those two motherboards and feel they are matched better with the WS for the office work and the ROG for any high intensity work. Keeping in mind, this will all be in one place where the parts can be interchanged based on sensibility and capacity. If I want to use something, I am not beyond taking it from one computer to serve my purpose until it is done and then I can put it back into the rig it was initially set up in. Instead of changing the parts I have decided on already to save in price, suggest away all of those that might inflate the price, but keep in mind we would like to spend around the amount listed. *Worry less about price* although we are obviously limited so don't leave comments SIMPLY intending to spend more.

 

This may not make sense, however, I have another variable taking into account that I don't want to argue about but need to have it impact. Imagine I wont have any more money after this shot, and imagine there is no upgrade to be had. This system is a parody build for a financial collapse of the USD. So, effectively, I need to cover both being able to buy and build-in upgrades if there is no collapse, as well as covering what all to get if this is my only purchase for 5-15 years if there was to be a collapse. Sorry if this seems absurd, but I would really appreciate the help none the less! Thanks!

 

In 5 years, anything you buy today will be "sub-standard" in it's performance.  Dual CPU workstation grade Motherboards are available and will help with the longevity of the unit.

[JH2468]

wtf is going on here?

 

16 GB of RAM, way overpriced GPUs, no worksation grade cards...

 

Just glanced... you better do some research.  You won't be ready to buy in three days.  Okay, 3 weeks....use that time to get familiar with what programs you will use and what hardware benefits them.

 

I wish I had more time, but I do not.  I like researching.  Hopefully some members here will help you more.

 

Why would you ever have 500 tabs open?

The nature of my work requires I look things up constantly, and no internet browser has yet figured out an intensive enough bookmark organizer for me to use it over simply buying hardware that will keep it all open and ready for use at any time. My business is that of subsidizing costs through learning and producing products myself. Instead of buying products, we make them or grow them ourselves. So, at any given time, there are hundreds of different resources that do not overlap. Nothing you learn over here about the making of mozzarella can prepare you for the chemical synthesis of fingizides nor can that preparation help you in the tending and caring of livestock or the writing and drafting of legal papers and law suits. I have many different places I take information from online. The bookmark applications on web browsers can not organize it all into a spectrum that is easily navigable over simply using the group tabs function of firefox. But each tab can have as many as 200 tabs and often in the high tens to mid hundred anyways. If I research more than 5 topics at a time, it's very easy to ring up 500 tabs. I was simply talking about the video tabs which are the big stressors. I have to double click the tabs over button(which should take you from one side to the other of one window) as many as five times just to get through the number I have open in this tab of this window. There are so many behind this in the group tabs section.The nature of these CPU's and motherboards(well I need to confirm but it seems as though) have better hardware, from more pins on the CPU to the VRM having 8 true phases(at least this seems to be the case for ROG boards.) as mentioned before. And yes, the fact is, these machines will be substandard in five years. This was the reason I included the point about these machines being built for potential to work with future components(say thorugh thunderbolt connection or through the many PCIe ports and be able to be pushed to a maximum capacity with easy user interface controls with overclocking while at the same time hardware built tough enough to not be strained(or less strained) by the overuse.

I did mention that I only started learning about hardware maybe a week ago.. Give me a break. I am trying. If you have sources for information, I'll gladly consume whatever they have to offer. I don't mean to act foolishly. I am not even the one who will be using the second station for video editing. I don't know anything about that and I have already tasked the person who will use it with composing a list of both the programs they will be using and the different requirements those programs demand. The ram situation for the WS was more based on the monitoring of my current use of memory, which has not gone over like 2.7 and definitely not 3.0GB. Although I have been taking it easy on this computer due to the forced shutdowns from overheating, I figured 16GB contained enough buffer room, plus I was under the impression I could overclock it, and I imagined being the dominator platform it would hold to more intensive use than the vengeance. For the RVE, you're right. That was like, a: "Holy shit, the memory is thousands of dollars?... What can we get away with for now?" But, I can respect the fact that I don't know how to define what I can get away with, I can't even define the needs of this one yet. But considering the pricing overall, it doesn't seem entirely undoable.

As for the GPU's, to be honest, I was basicaly shooting in the dark. There were some recommendations on http://www.videomaker.com/article/17135-editing-in-4k-minimum-system-requirementsbut I think they were more minimums and I am not sure what happened from there to here; price, cores, GPU knowledge mostly infered from gaming reviewers. (I don't know what else to do for this type of info, Like I said I'll gladly consume any info you've got!) And I don't know what the needs are yet, but I will be pressing them for that info. The idea for the RVE was to have something that could be able to do the more fun stuff and be pushed to the extreme limits with ease of UI, while being more visually capable than the WS. The idea, allbeit novice at best, being that if we could hook up an 8k monitor and four GPU's in SLI or Crossfire(if it works how I understand it to) with a couple m.2 cards(that will have higher bit/s in the future) while overclocking, we might be able to watch movies on these machines in ten years. Does that make sense? Of course, let me say again: that was the idea, allbeit novice at best.

And just in case, what does "workstation grade cards" mean? Does the workstation mean the WS motherboard or like professional? Is this an official grading or more of a performance grade? By cards, you do mean GPU's right? Or is this something else like a 4k video PCIe storage card? I'm sorry for my limits, I swear I am trying my best! Please bear with me.

[JH2468]

It's less about future standard, and more about future compatibility. I don't mind having the slowest computer on the block if, ten years from now, it's the computer I bought ten years ago. Does that make sense? This goes back into the variable about the scenario wherein one can not buy any future parts. Our best hope is that any parts we get our hands on are compatible. Whether that is in 1 year or in 15 years, or in 30 years parts found in someone's attic but still useable, we are trying to factor for each at the same time. But the hardware improvements/differences really do add a significant influence to my choice to go with these CPU's and Mobo's. The rest is pretty much after that and to which I was less attached. I am sorry for being a pain!

 

True ASUS 16+2 Phase Power Design

Unprecedented Innovation with the Best Quality Component for Best Performance
The groundbreaking 16+2 phase VRM design is brrought to the ASUS motherboards. 16+2 phase power design, 16-phase for vCore and extra 2-phase for QPI/Memory controller inside CPU, can provide the highest power efficiency, and hence generates less heat to effectively enhance the overclocking capability. With the high quality power components such as low RDS (on) MOSFETs, Ferrite core chokes with lower hysteresis loss and 100% high quality conductive polymer capacitors, ASUS 16+2 phase VRM design also ensure longer component life and minimum power loss. http://www.asus.com/ca-en/Motherboards/P6X58E_WS/

Now, I can't seem to find the specs on the X99 WS-E and the RVE specifically. But this makes me think 8 true phase with doublers on those as well.

[stconquest]

"I'll be back..."

 

Yes, i just said that.

[andrewhinkle5831]

Here are a few readings that I recommend:

http://www.pcworld.com/article/2365823/next-gen-memory-is-coming-fast-here-s-what-you-need-to-know-about-ddr4.html

http://www.computershopper.com/feature/buying-a-pc-case-20-terms-you-need-to-know

http://www.playtool.com/pages/selectvid/select.html
http://www.pcworld.com/article/2025425/how-to-pick-the-best-pc-power-supply.html

I don't have the experience to ensure that my specific hardware recommendations would all pan-out for you, and I would be weary of your own ability to make mistakes and buy incompatible hardware, or hardware that you aren't sure how to set up (like a motherboard), or that doesn't fit physically with all the components you expected it to, etc, especially bc these parts will generally not come with any support. In other words, make absolutely certain before you purchase your parts to build your pc, that there isn't a pre-built pc on the market that is virtually the same in terms of upgrade-ability, performance, and price. All pre-fabs will have technical support, and often will be cheaper than building, although sometimes the reverse is true and they are over-priced, or the manufacturer skimped on certain high-performance components. These are all things to be aware of. I have purchased a great pre-fab pc that would have cost me much more to build on my own. 

 

Not to be discouraging - building a PC is a great experience and I wish you luck, just saying I will limit my recommendations to generalizations from experience, rather than conclusions of specific hardware choices based on quick research. 

 

As was stated above, anything you buy today will be sub-par in five years, even three quite possibly.  

 

So first to consider, I would limit your budget (just stay on the low end of it), simply because computer electronics lose most of their value at point-of-sale, and over a couple years are literally worth nothing, and will soon be out of date, unsupported, and incompatible with other hardware and software. 

 

Consider a few things... It is better to spend your money on components that will allow you to upgrade later, to the newest and best tech - should you want it, than it is to spend your money on the newest and best tech right now.. For example, right now is not the best time to buy RAM bc ddr3 is rising in price and ddr4 is just around the corner or just on the market. The main difference in the two comes down to waste-heat, bc ddr4 requires less power (it also has faster data transfer speeds, but this is not noticeable what-so-ever and is certainly not worth paying 50% more for). This is almost definitely irrelevant considering how nice of a pc you're going to build, with adequate cooling, etc. IMO you will be wasting money to go as high-end as is possible, especially on components like the ram - that's just how computers and electronics work unfortunately.

 

So, IMO you would be much better off not purchasing ddr4 memory for these computers, or the newest and best graphics card for that matter (the slots for these components existing on the motherboard however, is crucial). Instead I would invest in a motherboard that is ddr4-capable, but I would not bother with ddr4 memory, as it is way over-priced and there is virtually no performance difference from ddr3. Invest the big money in a tower, a nice one, a CPU, power supply, and motherboard.. The graphics card, memory, optical drives, hard drives, etc., are less important in terms of needing them to be super high-end/cutting edge tech, bc they can easily be upgraded later if they aren't up to snuff, as long as your base-components are capable. 

 

What this boils down to is that it's better to buy two $3,000 computers five years apart than it is to buy one 6,000 computer once. I recommend you buy two computers around the 3k range, because the performance of these machines is honestly not possible to fully reach. I can honestly say these systems you're describing above will never have a processing issue, so the idea that you "need" them for your computing needs is just not fully the case. If you spend 6k of your budget on these two, you then have 4k to spend on another build, in a few years, when these two builds start to get older, and you've got a little more experience under your belt with the whole process. You could also spend the 4k on upgrades for these machines, once the graphics of today and the ram of today have gone down in price. 

 

Just my thoughts. Hope this helps. Good luck! 

[stconquest]

@JH2468

 

So, I have been envisioning a single system to take care of your needs.  I undoubtedly need to go over the information on this page, and research some more.  I put together this monster that SHOULD take care of your surfing(researching) habits, and your need to quickly render video.  I opted for gaming grade GPU's as you did not mention 3d modeling and video rendering is benefited more by CPU threads (but don't take my word for it, software varies the hardware benefits).

 

Long story short, this is freakin' expensive.  I believe it might be the direction you want, but I do not think you need this much... like I said I need to research more.

 

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: Intel Xeon E5-2687W V2 3.4GHz 8-Core Processor  ($2017.99 @ SuperBiiz)  <<Total 16 cores, 32 threads.  IvyBridge 2011.  There is a 10-core option at the same price running at 3.0 GHz, instead of this 3.4 GHz which would give you 20 cores and 40 threads.
CPU Cooler: Corsair H60 54.0 CFM Liquid CPU Cooler  ($59.98 @ OutletPC)
CPU Cooler: Corsair H60 54.0 CFM Liquid CPU Cooler  ($59.98 @ OutletPC)
Motherboard: Asus Z9PE-D8 WS SSI EEB Dual-CPU LGA2011 Motherboard  ($509.99 @ SuperBiiz)
Memory: G.Skill Ripjaws Z Series 64GB (8 x 8GB) DDR3-2133 Memory  ($602.98 @ Newegg)
Storage: Samsung 850 EVO-Series 250GB 2.5" Solid State Drive  ($118.98 @ OutletPC)  <<Boot/Program drive
Storage: Samsung 850 EVO-Series 500GB 2.5" Solid State Drive  ($204.98 @ OutletPC)  <<Scratch drive, you can up it to a 1TB if needed.
Storage: Hitachi  4TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive  ($164.00 @ B&H)  <<<Storage
Video Card: Asus GeForce GTX 980 4GB STRIX Video Card (2-Way SLI)  ($544.99 @ SuperBiiz)  <<<These GPUs go into quiet mode, shutting off their fans and going passive cooling.
Video Card: Asus GeForce GTX 980 4GB STRIX Video Card (2-Way SLI)  ($544.99 @ SuperBiiz)
Case: Phanteks Enthoo Pro ATX Full Tower Case  ($99.99 @ Amazon)  <<<Case is huge and easy to work in and comes with an on-board fan hub controller to keep you case fans quiet... when you don't need the 100% airflow
Power Supply: EVGA SuperNOVA 1000G2 1000W 80+ Gold Certified Fully-Modular ATX Power Supply  ($149.99 @ NCIX US)  <<<This is enough power for three 980s, but not quite four.  Jump to 1200W for quad.
Other: Intel Xeon E5-2687W v2 Eight-Core Ivy Bridge EP Processor 3.4GHz ($2017.99)
Total: $7096.83
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2015-02-22 17:13 EST-0500

 

For your research:  Nvidia 9XX series GPUs are incredibly power efficient:  http://www.guru3d.com/articles-pages/geforce-gtx-980-sli-review,4.html

[stconquest]

...snip....

I did mention that I only started learning about hardware maybe a week ago.. Give me a break. I am trying. If you have sources for information, I'll gladly consume whatever they have to offer. I don't mean to act foolishly. I am not even the one who will be using the second station for video editing. I don't know anything about that and I have already tasked the person who will use it with composing a list of both the programs they will be using and the different requirements those programs demand. The ram situation for the WS was more based on the monitoring of my current use of memory, which has not gone over like 2.7 and definitely not 3.0GB. Although I have been taking it easy on this computer due to the forced shutdowns from overheating, I figured 16GB contained enough buffer room, plus I was under the impression I could overclock it, and I imagined being the dominator platform it would hold to more intensive use than the vengeance. For the RVE, you're right. That was like, a: "Holy shit, the memory is thousands of dollars?... What can we get away with for now?" But, I can respect the fact that I don't know how to define what I can get away with, I can't even define the needs of this one yet. But considering the pricing overall, it doesn't seem entirely undoable.

As for the GPU's, to be honest, I was basicaly shooting in the dark. There were some recommendations on http://www.videomaker.com/article/17135-editing-in-4k-minimum-system-requirementsbut I think they were more minimums and I am not sure what happened from there to here; price, cores, GPU knowledge mostly infered from gaming reviewers. (I don't know what else to do for this type of info, Like I said I'll gladly consume any info you've got!) And I don't know what the needs are yet, but I will be pressing them for that info. The idea for the RVE was to have something that could be able to do the more fun stuff and be pushed to the extreme limits with ease of UI, while being more visually capable than the WS. The idea, allbeit novice at best, being that if we could hook up an 8k monitor and four GPU's in SLI or Crossfire(if it works how I understand it to) with a couple m.2 cards(that will have higher bit/s in the future) while overclocking, we might be able to watch movies on these machines in ten years. Does that make sense? Of course, let me say again: that was the idea, allbeit novice at best.

And just in case, what does "workstation grade cards" mean? Does the workstation mean the WS motherboard or like professional? Is this an official grading or more of a performance grade? By cards, you do mean GPU's right? Or is this something else like a 4k video PCIe storage card? I'm sorry for my limits, I swear I am trying my best! Please bear with me.

 

 

I just went over this post.  Since this is a 2-person operation, I guess my single monster solution might not be best.

 

Workstation-grade video cards are mainly a benefit to photo-editing and 3d modeling.  AMD's FirePro, and Nvidia Quadro lines are best for these types of work mostly because of the application support more than anything else.  What I mean is that the software for developing graphics is designed around this type of hardware, so workstation-grade GPUs tend to work much better than a gaming grade GPU solution.

 

...and I meant no insult in my earlier post.  I jump in quickly, because I know there is a learning process to component selection (which is why you are here), and I really don't like "hasty" decisions regarding builds.  Like if you took my 16-core, dual CPU, $7000 build and bought it tomorrow... bad idea :lol:

[stconquest]

...snip...

 

True ASUS 16+2 Phase Power Design

Unprecedented Innovation with the Best Quality Component for Best Performance

The groundbreaking 16+2 phase VRM design is brrought to the ASUS motherboards. 16+2 phase power design, 16-phase for vCore and extra 2-phase for QPI/Memory controller inside CPU, can provide the highest power efficiency, and hence generates less heat to effectively enhance the overclocking capability. With the high quality power components such as low RDS (on) MOSFETs, Ferrite core chokes with lower hysteresis loss and 100% high quality conductive polymer capacitors, ASUS 16+2 phase VRM design also ensure longer component life and minimum power loss. http://www.asus.com/ca-en/Motherboards/P6X58E_WS/

Now, I can't seem to find the specs on the X99 WS-E and the RVE specifically. But this makes me think 8 true phase with doublers on those as well.

 

Intel CPU's are quite power efficient.  A "true" 8 phase VRM is more than enough any modern i5/i7, enough for you to test for the maximum highest (and stable) clock.

[JH2468]

Man, I can not tell you how great this is to get me started! You are right, it is less desirable to try and have one machine fit all as then, effectively, only one person could work at a time which would reduce the work output by too much. But I like the idea, lol I'm going to have fun looking into the beefy parts!

Thank you so much for the research direction and suggestions! I was feelin a bit bummed out thinkin' most people don't quite understand that future compatibility is more important than price and performance now. I really did take a lot of time lookin into that processor and those two motherboards.. More than 3 or 4 hours of reviews alone. Hours of videos of people building 4k editing machines(that's where I got my first suggestions) and other informational videos(some really great ones about the VRM etc. from someone right here on linustechtips.) and other articles about minimum needs and enthusiast options.  I wish I had made a list but there really was like one benefit or improvement or upgrade after the next with these.

 

A lot of people also don't seem to comprehend the idea of buying into capacity rather than defining capacity and buying after. We are thinking about how this is an investment and until two weeks ago, video editing was not one of the career options of that person. They had started when they were young but out of necessity and lack of proper machines had to stop the work. They are excited to be getting back into it and for them, this purchase is not as hard on the wallet as it is for some, so investing in a machine that will enable them to pick up where they left off and potentially do more than they ever thought possible, might just be perfect fit to effect the atmosphere that will enable them to get the most from their system and their money.

I have noticed what you talk about: programs change the hardware benefits, I have certainly seen that in benchmarks. And like I said, I have tasked them, with making a list of the programs they intend to use and their system demands. I would be going from there, sorry I don't have that yet.

I hear you for sure about the workstation GPU's are much better than gaming one's. I didn't mean to act foolishly. That selection is probably because a majority of those I can learn from online, who do reviews about hardware, are gamers. My apologies.

 

The idea specifically about the RVE build was that no matter what demand a future program could place on the computer, we would be equipped with the ability to push the computer to the max in 5-10 years simply to keep up with future program demands. Less about Mobo being fine tuned for editing and more that it's user interface is more designed for OC by a nube who tried hard, lol. I am not trying to make a case that this is the correct or more desirable organization, please do correct me if I'm wrong. This was the idea though. We had talked about probably not overclocking it until all of the warranties had expired.

 

I think there is one other thing that maybe isn't being taken into full account here. I comprehend the benefits of all suggestions that result in waiting, or buying a previous architecture, as well as waiting until this architecture becomes old news and gets a whole lot cheaper. I do see the benefits but those who provided such missed two factors I am trying to account for here.

 

One is the potential for future hardware architecture to not be compatible with hardware you can buy today. I observed a number of different things that put this hardware in a new class. As would be expected, it has some of the most updated architecture to date, in addition to some of the most robust parts, in the context of gaming, or so I think.(If we could invest in skylake we would, but we want to have these builds absolutely done and being used by or before may 1st.)

 

We are also taking into account a factor most people either wouldn't or simply don't. That is, the idea of mass financial collapse of the US dollar. At this point, if you don't know that the collapse is inevitable I am sorry it's coming so late to you, but beyond this, yes, there is going to be collapse and a reduction in the current holdings anyone left with dollars in hand. So, for us, it makes more sense to spend all of the dollars we can(while not wasting obviously). If we have this NAS set up like I described, we could be very well off in an economic situation that is not very forthcoming with opportunity or all that forgiving. And the potential for others with expertise to use our system either through a contractual agreement or through good faith in the exchange, still might enable us to reap a benefit even if we adopted the absurd notion that we could not use the machines ourselves.

 

As far as buying your single bodied monster in a hasty decision tomorrow, that just couldn't happen, lol. I don't know if you've noticed, but I am not one to be convinced when there isn't detailed explanation to effect some kind of sense for that perspective's adoption over that of another. I am not one to listen to words I can not come up with myself, that is, I must understand it to be at peace with having it come into my life at all. If you've got a suggestion, it will never be adopted as my suggestion unless you've included an effective explanation for why. And you can bet your ass I'm gong to ask how and if you can't answer I'll just start reading and looking things up.. It's amazing what I have found doing that process! 500 tabs worth, ha ha!

One of the positive aspects(albeit I don't know the magnitude of the advantage) of the power reduction in the X99 boards is that it will complement when we start producing our own electricity through select biomass generators. Not that one takes care of the other, but why produce electricity that must be wasted on components that are less efficient. I'd rather buy the most efficient equipment up front, considering all other factors...

I do want to reiterate one last note that I think is maybe the most missed overall. For these builds, it would be less helpful coming from the perspective of what is possible to be done with a computer now. And entirely MORE helpful to consider what it is that a machine bought now might need to deal with in programs designed for systems designed and manufactured 5-15 years from now. Will these computers even be able to run things like the faebook of ten years from now? Or games in 8k resolution. These future, currently non-existent things, are the things to be considering this system to be able to contend with. If this system is thought generally not to be able to keep up, tell why. What hardware, which components, what mechanisms of action of those components keep it from future performance, such that we might effect solutions for these issues rather than buying different sub-standard components. Realizing for these build all suggestions must first fall within the criteria of purpose we have defined. Don't say statements like: "you will never need such'n such" because the idea is to, the best of our ability, define what it will or could need, and go from there.

I am not trying to be a stickler or a pain, but so far, beyond the idea of the non-gaming rig being more suited for the editing purpose(which I don't yet know what to do with entirely) I haven't been persuaded out of buying at least these motherboards and CPU's.  Even after making my counter points of what I feel commenters have missed about my purposes, do you feel that selection of motherboards and CPU to be short sighted?(Consider also, that although this is a work investment, we will get a whole lotta fun and use out of the gaming capacity of these systems!) I have been looking forward to potentially playing some games with my brothers, although I do not normally use my time for such. As far as DDR4 memory and the current market GPU's, I can see your point Andrew. And I will be looking closely at those components and the fact that THAT is where about $3000 expense comes from. I will look into those GPU series you suggested, thank you all so much for the time you've spent offering your ideas and experience! It has been a great resource I don't know what I would have done without it! Oh yeah, probably remained ignorant and made some poor choices. lol..

 

[JH2468]

Intel CPU's are quite power efficient.  A "true" 8 phase VRM is more than enough any modern i5/i7, enough for you to test for the maximum highest (and stable) clock.

 

I think it that 16+2 IS in fact only a true 8 phase. And so, it's a 16 phase via the use of doublers, but that makes it a 16 phase virtual not a true 16 phase. I have not confirmed this, but that is my inference form other ROG boards. So, yeah, that's the idea, higher quality architecture and components with the 12k capacitors among other things like the humungo heat sync on the VRM on the ROG. Like I said, it was like one advancement after the next when it came to describing what they had done to improve these boards over what they called 'the reference model' as well as the CPU actually. 

[stconquest]

@JH2468

 

Boy you write a lot 

 

"Future-proofing" - As far as hardware is concerned, there is no way to plan for hardware changes 5-10-15 years down the road.  Software is tailored to the current hardware.  Hardware is always playing the game of catchup.  As hardware gets better, the software written for it will get more advance.  To buy a system today, it has to be for what software is available to use with it... today.  The best you can do to accommodate the advancement of software designed for hardware not even built yet, is computational "robustness":  The best current CPU architecture; processing core count;  available RAM; etc... 

 

You can't really plan to use a system for things that it is not designed for, there will be new hardware for that.  For example:  processing massive calculations will theoretically be done by quantum computers.  There are only a few in existence currently.  Depending on how fast they are developed, you could see Q-bits doing all the computational "heavy lifting" as soon as ten years from now.  You can't expect a "classical" computer to keep up with the Quantum CPU base PC.  Games, editing/rendering music/video/3d models, facebook will still be run on classical PCs as there is no benefit of shear computing speed from a quantum computer.

 

So, I am getting off-track here.  The type of PC you build today (classical), will be used for a very long time when doing the things you are planning to do with it (researching available data on the net, rendering video, playing games).  What will change is the size of semi-conductors resulting in smaller dies that require less and less power;  the architecture will be optimized with every die shrink, and probably even without;  materials transfering/storing data could see evolutions we do not have the privilege of knowing about.

 

If you don't have a use for the PC today, it's effectiveness will only diminish over time, 100% guarantee.

 

VRM Phases - In previous generations of motherboards (pre-haswell), the motherboard was 100% in charge of deciding how much power was to be delivered to the CPU and to get it there safely.  With the introduction of Haswell CPUs, we also saw the introduction of the VRM instruction set taken away from the duties of the motherboard and placed directly into the CPU die.  Now the motherboard is only in charge of getting the power to the CPU.  The CPU determines how that power is used.  The only thing that matters as far as motherboard VRMs is their quality and to a lesser degree the number of MOFSETS, capacitors and chokes. 

 

http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/cpu/display/20121226225930_Intel_s_Haswell_to_Feature_Secrete_Weapon_Integrated_Voltage_Regulator.html

 

With current materials, if four sets of MOFSETS, capacitors and chokes provides 150% of the maximum voltage required by a CPU at an efficient rate (as fast as the CPU needs)... then having 8 phases does absolutely no good, let alone 16.  It is simply unnecessary.

 

Don't buy into the "gimicky" side of "true phase" blah, blah, blah...  Can the motherboard deliver enough clean power to the CPU in an expedient manner?  That should be your only question.  Buying a motherboard that is capable of providing a CPU with 500% of the max power a CPU needs is... unnecessary.  It will never be a performance factor.  You are buying into shear marketing of hardware without the practical necessity for that hardware.

 

Rendering Video - There is a reason I went to IVY bridge for the system:  There are dual CPU motherboards.  The difference in processing speed or IPC(intructions per clock) between 1155/2011 socket CPUs and 1150/2011V3 socket CPUs is not that great in most cases... around 5-10% faster.  The 16 cores and 32 threads of the IVYBRIDGE Xeons will be much, MUCH faster than the 8 cores and 16 thread of the X99 Haswell CPUs.  If you are rendering video as a job (making money) then time is very important.  Just ask Linus employees :lol: If your rendering time is related to income, then the investment can make returns for you quicker as you would be able to complete more projects (more videos).

 

Economic Collapse - Well, this one is a doozy!  The US economy has been propping itself up to appear profitable for over 50 years now.  Some people make a lot of money from the way things currently are and will probably do a lot to keep it going.  I am not saying the monetary system of the USA won't break down in 1-5 years, what I am saying is don't be surprised if it last another 25-50 years.  Money has a set value, the setting is made by "us".  Inherently valuable resources have always had the same value as they are not tied to money... unless we tie it.  A glass of water is just as refreshing and beneficial to the body today, as it was 50/100 or 1000 years before.  Just to be fair, just about every country in the world is using the same broken systems, within a larger functioning system.  The larger functioning system is what you show off to the citizens.  The broken parts are the things you try to hide.  A computer will not fix the broken pieces, so I do not want to guess as to why this plays a factor in your purchase of one.   

 

To sum it up -  A decent productivity PC used for researching and quality gaming, and a second rendering workstation that can pump out 4K video quickly.  The first one is available to US citizens at about the $1500 mark or less.  The workstation, well that depends on how much money you are gonna make with it.  If those videos are gonna make you money, and more videos means more money, then the system I had above (minus the dual GTX 980s) is a great processing workhorse.  Don't spend $6000 dollars on a workstation like that only to have it sitting idle for days at a time... week after week... month after month... etc..

 

I am not including the price of peripherals in any of my thoughts.  Just the towers.  I do not recommend gaming at 4K resolution because the performance to do so is not readily available in the current market.  You can try to compensate for the lack of "power" from your components (quad SLI 980s, etc..) but you are pretty much just overspending for very little improvement to your gaming experience.  There is nothing wrong with gaming a 1440p and 120 FPS... that is as far as I would recommend.