RAID 5 with different drives

[LIGISTX]

So, I know I have a pretty beastly nas (check da sig), but I also have my htpc which is 24/7 on where my nas is not (nas is in my room and is loud... once I am out of college and have a real house this won't be an issue). My htpc folds 24/7 and since I just watercooled my main Rig I have my extra hhd's out of there as well. 

 

Basically, I have 4 500 gig drives (2 are WD blacks, one is a WD blue, one is a seagate). Or, I have a 2 TB seagate, 1 TB black, and 1 TB samsung that would be in RAID 5 (I know the 2 TB will act as a 1 TB). I am just wondering what the reliability of such a setup would be. I believe they are all 7200 rpm, thus slow downs won't be a big factor. Also, these drives will be accessed over gigabit ethernet to my main rig anyways, so as long as the array is over ~100 MBps it will saturate my network anyways. I am most concerned about reliability here.

 

Would it be more reliable to RAID 5 non similar drives or just leave them on their own with no redundancy (only reason I see it being less safe in RAID is possibly due to excess stress on the drives to try and keep up with each other since they are not identical, and I am not even sure at this time if they all have the same cache, I assume the blacks may have more cache but I am not sure).

 

Also, I would not run both sets together, if I go the 500 GB drive route, I would shelf the 1 and 2 TB's, and same if I go the other way. I do assume the 1 and 2 TB route would be "safer" since it consists of less drives, less room for failure.

 

Any advice would be great!

[MrBucket101]

lots of options

 

if you want to get crazy with it

 

put the 4-500gb drives in raid 0, the 2-1TB drives in RAID 0, then create a raid 5 with the 2TB seagate, and the 2 newly created 2TB virtual drives.

 

This would give you 4TB of storage and would be similar to a true raid 5...but with more points of failure. If a single 500gb drive died, it would destroy the raid 0 volume and degrade the raid 5. put a new 500gb drive in, recreate the raid 0, and add it back to the raid 5 and it will rebuild and be good as new. Same with the 1TB volumes.

 

Eventually if you get some cash flow, destroy the raid 0 volumes one a time, and replace them with a single 2TB drive, and let it rebuild. The biggest downside would be if an old 1TB or 500gb drive failed, it would be fiscally beneficial to just buy a new 2TB drive and put the old drives somewhere else.

having non-identical drives in RAID shouldn't be an issue if they're all the same RPM and cache size. Minute differences won't make the entire thing blow up

 

 

If you're not using all the drives at the same time, then it all just depends on what you want. RAID 10 with the 500gb drives would give you a really fast 1TB volume with redundancy. the 1TB drives in RAID 1, would be almost as good as RAID 10. And the 4-500gb drives in raid 5 would give you the most space. BUT it would handicap your write speed. I don't believe RAID 10 can be expanded, and I'm not sure if a raid 1 can be expanded very easily. Maybe if you pulled 1 drive and replaced it with a bigger drive, let it rebuild, then did the same again. But with only 1TB of space, it'd be easier to just backup the drive and recreate a new array. Raid 5 can be expanded fairly easily, but it takes time to do. 

 

BTW, I have a similar server set up to you, sort of. The ST3000DM001 drives are great, and terrible all at the same time. I had 3 of them fail on me last month, one week after another. If it wasn't for the fact they failed within a week of the warranty expiring, and me having a hot-spare to swap in for the rebuild while the RMA was in post...I would be screwed. I went back and read the fine print on the drives, and they're only rated for 8 hours a day, 5 days a week. Needless to say I'm wishing I had spent more and got WD reds lol

[LIGISTX]

lots of options

 

if you want to get crazy with it

 

put the 4-500gb drives in raid 0, the 2-1TB drives in RAID 0, then create a raid 5 with the 2TB seagate, and the 2 newly created 2TB virtual drives.

 

This would give you 4TB of storage and would be similar to a true raid 5...but with more points of failure. If a single 500gb drive died, it would destroy the raid 0 volume and degrade the raid 5. put a new 500gb drive in, recreate the raid 0, and add it back to the raid 5 and it will rebuild and be good as new. Same with the 1TB volumes.

 

Eventually if you get some cash flow, destroy the raid 0 volumes one a time, and replace them with a single 2TB drive, and let it rebuild. The biggest downside would be if an old 1TB or 500gb drive failed, it would be fiscally beneficial to just buy a new 2TB drive and put the old drives somewhere else.

having non-identical drives in RAID shouldn't be an issue if they're all the same RPM and cache size. Minute differences won't make the entire thing blow up

 

 

If you're not using all the drives at the same time, then it all just depends on what you want. RAID 10 with the 500gb drives would give you a really fast 1TB volume with redundancy. the 1TB drives in RAID 1, would be almost as good as RAID 10. And the 4-500gb drives in raid 5 would give you the most space. BUT it would handicap your write speed. I don't believe RAID 10 can be expanded, and I'm not sure if a raid 1 can be expanded very easily. Maybe if you pulled 1 drive and replaced it with a bigger drive, let it rebuild, then did the same again. But with only 1TB of space, it'd be easier to just backup the drive and recreate a new array. Raid 5 can be expanded fairly easily, but it takes time to do. 

 

BTW, I have a similar server set up to you, sort of. The ST3000DM001 drives are great, and terrible all at the same time. I had 3 of them fail on me last month, one week after another. If it wasn't for the fact they failed within a week of the warranty expiring, and me having a hot-spare to swap in for the rebuild while the RMA was in post...I would be screwed. I went back and read the fine print on the drives, and they're only rated for 8 hours a day, 5 days a week. Needless to say I'm wishing I had spent more and got WD reds lol

 

Thankfully I don't have my nas on much... its only on maybe 3-4 hours a day, not even every day. So, for now, its ok. Every now and then one does drop out, but I am always able to rebuild it ok. I should have been keeping track of which one drops out lol. 

 

But yea I think I might just do RAID 5 with the large drives, I was thinking about getting fancy with it like you suggested, but I don't need the space on this array so no reason to introduce fail points. These just store my heavily accessed stuff I use on my main rig often, thus why not on the nas. But realistically I have less then 1 TB of stuff I need 24/7 on this array, so I think I will do RAID 5 with a 2 TB volume size across the two 1 TB's and a 2 TB.

 

Now I wonder if that mobo even supports RAID 5. haha

[MrBucket101]

Thankfully I don't have my nas on much... its only on maybe 3-4 hours a day, not even every day. So, for now, its ok. Every now and then one does drop out, but I am always able to rebuild it ok. I should have been keeping track of which one drops out lol. 

 

But yea I think I might just do RAID 5 with the large drives, I was thinking about getting fancy with it like you suggested, but I don't need the space on this array so no reason to introduce fail points. These just store my heavily accessed stuff I use on my main rig often, thus why not on the nas. But realistically I have less then 1 TB of stuff I need 24/7 on this array, so I think I will do RAID 5 with a 2 TB volume size across the two 1 TB's and a 2 TB.

 

Now I wonder if that mobo even supports RAID 5. haha

 

Yeah, I use my server for a TON of things. Pretty much if I was able to offload it from my main rig, I did. It's running several virtual machines, ruTorrent+rTorrent, and Plex Media Server for my whole family. For only being rated at 8 hours a day, they held up for almost a year of 24/7 abuse.

 

Personally...I'd never use the fakeRAID onboard mobo's. it's just not that great. Limited flexibility for little gain. And almost none of them support RAID 5.

 

I'd slap the 2TB drive in my main rig, and call it a day. Store a backup of the data on the 2-1TB drives and pull them from your rig and sit them on a shelf. Or put a backup on your NAS. Less cables, less headache, no need for redundancy when you have a true backup.

[LIGISTX]

Yeah, I use my server for a TON of things. Pretty much if I was able to offload it from my main rig, I did. It's running several virtual machines, ruTorrent+rTorrent, and Plex Media Server for my whole family. For only being rated at 8 hours a day, they held up for almost a year of 24/7 abuse.

 

Personally...I'd never use the fakeRAID onboard mobo's. it's just not that great. Limited flexibility for little gain. And almost none of them support RAID 5.

 

I'd slap the 2TB drive in my main rig, and call it a day. Store a backup of the data on the 2-1TB drives and pull them from your rig and sit them on a shelf. Or put a backup on your NAS. Less cables, less headache, no need for redundancy when you have a true backup.

I can't put any hhd's in my rig, I went full on water cooling in my 350d which included a front mounted 120. So all I have room for is two double stick taped SSD's behind mobo tray. lol.

 

If windows 7 had software RAID 5 I would do that, but apparently it does not . 

[MrBucket101]

I can't put any hhd's in my rig, I went full on water cooling in my 350d which included a front mounted 120. So all I have room for is two double stick taped SSD's behind mobo tray. lol.

 

If windows 7 had software RAID 5 I would do that, but apparently it does not . 

There's always room.

 

I've got an SSD and a 1TB WD Black sitting on the floor of my case. I just make sure I don't move my rig unless it's turned off. It's not going to get bumped into where it's at, and even if it did. I could care less if the 1TB drive died lol. nothing on it that isn't on the my server.  It's eerie how similar our server and rig are. I went full on watercooling as well, and ripped out my HD cage, and put in a 5.25" dual bay reservoir. 

 

If you're that paranoid, use some double sided tape, or do what linus did and drill 4 small holes in the underside for a true mount.

[LIGISTX]

There's always room.

 

I've got an SSD and a 1TB WD Black sitting on the floor of my case. I just make sure I don't move my rig unless it's turned off. It's not going to get bumped into where it's at, and even if it did. I could care less if the 1TB drive died lol. nothing on it that isn't on the my server.  It's eerie how similar our server and rig are. I went full on watercooling as well, and ripped out my HD cage, and put in a 5.25" dual bay reservoir. 

 

If you're that paranoid, use some double sided tape, or do what linus did and drill 4 small holes in the underside for a true mount.

Honestly there isn't even much room for them in the floor of the case, but the real thing that will kill the idea is noise. My pc is no dead quiet, with the highest RPM fan at 600. LOL. A HHD will ruin that vibe. I will figure something out on the HTPC though. 

 

Also that reminds me, I really need to update my sig and add some pix. btdubs, a UT60 280 rad WON'T FIT in the top of a 350d, mine is now external... lol

 

And no lie, I am a little jealous of your 780 ti, but I did get my 290 for ~260 bucks but it doesn't OC worth a crap. HIS, not the bestest.

[Captain_WD]

So, I know I have a pretty beastly nas (check da sig), but I also have my htpc which is 24/7 on where my nas is not (nas is in my room and is loud... once I am out of college and have a real house this won't be an issue). My htpc folds 24/7 and since I just watercooled my main Rig I have my extra hhd's out of there as well. 

 

Basically, I have 4 500 gig drives (2 are WD blacks, one is a WD blue, one is a seagate). Or, I have a 2 TB seagate, 1 TB black, and 1 TB samsung that would be in RAID 5 (I know the 2 TB will act as a 1 TB). I am just wondering what the reliability of such a setup would be. I believe they are all 7200 rpm, thus slow downs won't be a big factor. Also, these drives will be accessed over gigabit ethernet to my main rig anyways, so as long as the array is over ~100 MBps it will saturate my network anyways. I am most concerned about reliability here.

 

Would it be more reliable to RAID 5 non similar drives or just leave them on their own with no redundancy (only reason I see it being less safe in RAID is possibly due to excess stress on the drives to try and keep up with each other since they are not identical, and I am not even sure at this time if they all have the same cache, I assume the blacks may have more cache but I am not sure).

 

Also, I would not run both sets together, if I go the 500 GB drive route, I would shelf the 1 and 2 TB's, and same if I go the other way. I do assume the 1 and 2 TB route would be "safer" since it consists of less drives, less room for failure.

 

Any advice would be great!

 

 

Hey there,

 

The short answer would be "I wouldn't use those drives in a RAID array".

More extensively, the difference wouldn't be only with the size and the actual rpm. Different drives from different manufacturers happen to have differences in the firmware and using them in a RAID array could end in complete data corruption. Moreover, those drives are not RAID/NAS class drives which means they don't have the necessary features for safe performance in such environment and the chance of dropping out of the array is much higher. 

 

My suggestion would be to use the two similar WD Black drives in RAID0 (giving you 1TB usable space with pretty good speeds), and create a backup of that 1TB with the two 1TB drives in RAID1. You could use the 2TB drive for secondary storage or backups or simply a standalone drive in the NAS. 

 

Captain_WD.

[MrBucket101]

Honestly there isn't even much room for them in the floor of the case, but the real thing that will kill the idea is noise. My pc is no dead quiet, with the highest RPM fan at 600. LOL. A HHD will ruin that vibe. I will figure something out on the HTPC though. 

 

Also that reminds me, I really need to update my sig and add some pix. btdubs, a UT60 280 rad WON'T FIT in the top of a 350d, mine is now external... lol

 

And no lie, I am a little jealous of your 780 ti, but I did get my 290 for ~260 bucks but it doesn't OC worth a crap. HIS, not the bestest.

 

The noise would be where our rigs differ greatly then. My room is a converted attic, and it's nearly impossible to regulate the temp up here. It's cold in the winter, and hot in the summer. So I've always got a heater or AC unit running; plus I'm allergic to dust, so I have to run a HEPA filter 24/7. Tons of noise pollution in my room. Pretty much why I just went balls to the wall and went with a push/pull setup on both rads with 1850rpm Gentle Typhoons. The case is about 2 feet away from me, and I swear it's silent!  If I ever get my own place with proper insulation and what not, I would be a little more conscious about the noise coming from the rig. Annnd my server is in the basement, so who cares how much noise that thing makes or doesn't make lol.

 

 

I would slap a water block on your 290 and take it for a wild ride.  They really open up on H2O

 

Yeah, the 780TI classified is truly amazing. I was blown away by it honestly. My mobo is actually not even capable of delivering the power the card needs at its top end. I spent about 2 weeks torturing the card with synthetic benchmarks. I ended up in the top 100 for single gpu setups on 3Dmark (my inner nerds claim to fame ) I made it to 86, and got bumped off about 2 weeks after that. I went back to push the card even harder, and my mobo was forcing the system to shut-off to "protect itself". Even with the extra power to the PCI-e slots, it wasn't enough for the card lol. I had sufficient power from the PSU, and my H2O kept the card under 60C the entire time...I just couldn't deliver the power the card needed haha.

 

I try to game @ 5760x1080 as much as possible, so I wanted to get a card powerful enough for that sort of thing. I had two 670's in SLI, and wasn't really happy with the performance. All my games needed SLI profiles to even use the second card, and some of them weren't even really optimized. So most of the power from the second card was underutilized. 

 

 

ANYWAYS, back on topic.

 

I like @Captain_WD 's idea. seems like a nice compromise.  Though I wouldn't worry too much about drive firmware and discrepancies of that nature.  Obviously mismatched drives will affect the performance, but for an at-home setup, I don't think it will kill you. In any other scenario though, I would avoid it if possible. 

 

In your situation, worse comes to worse, a drive kills itself and you move on lol

[LIGISTX]

The noise would be where our rigs differ greatly then. My room is a converted attic, and it's nearly impossible to regulate the temp up here. It's cold in the winter, and hot in the summer. So I've always got a heater or AC unit running; plus I'm allergic to dust, so I have to run a HEPA filter 24/7. Tons of noise pollution in my room. Pretty much why I just went balls to the wall and went with a push/pull setup on both rads with 1850rpm Gentle Typhoons. The case is about 2 feet away from me, and I swear it's silent! If I ever get my own place with proper insulation and what not, I would be a little more conscious about the noise coming from the rig. Annnd my server is in the basement, so who cares how much noise that thing makes or doesn't make lol.

I would slap a water block on your 290 and take it for a wild ride. They really open up on H2O

Yeah, the 780TI classified is truly amazing. I was blown away by it honestly. My mobo is actually not even capable of delivering the power the card needs at its top end. I spent about 2 weeks torturing the card with synthetic benchmarks. I ended up in the top 100 for single gpu setups on 3Dmark (my inner nerds claim to fame ) I made it to 86, and got bumped off about 2 weeks after that. I went back to push the card even harder, and my mobo was forcing the system to shut-off to "protect itself". Even with the extra power to the PCI-e slots, it wasn't enough for the card lol. I had sufficient power from the PSU, and my H2O kept the card under 60C the entire time...I just couldn't deliver the power the card needed haha.

I try to game @ 5760x1080 as much as possible, so I wanted to get a card powerful enough for that sort of thing. I had two 670's in SLI, and wasn't really happy with the performance. All my games needed SLI profiles to even use the second card, and some of them weren't even really optimized. So most of the power from the second card was underutilized.

ANYWAYS, back on topic.

I like @Captain_WD 's idea. seems like a nice compromise. Though I wouldn't worry too much about drive firmware and discrepancies of that nature. Obviously mismatched drives will affect the performance, but for an at-home setup, I don't think it will kill you. In any other scenario though, I would avoid it if possible.

In your situation, worse comes to worse, a drive kills itself and you move on lol

The 290 is full blocked, it just doesn't do well because it's a crap card. I only got a HIS version because it was so cheap. My old gtx 470 that was OCed no joke 45% finally took a crap even though I had a kuhler 620 ghetto rigged to it.

But once again, back in topic. Maybe I should throw all my 500's in RAID 5 and use a nightly backup program to back up that array to my 2tb. Hmm. Any advice on backup programs?

[MrBucket101]

The 290 is full blocked, it just doesn't do well because it's a crap card. I only got a HIS version because it was so cheap. My old gtx 470 that was OCed no joke 45% finally took a crap even though I had a kuhler 620 ghetto rigged to it.

But once again, back in topic. Maybe I should throw all my 500's in RAID 5 and use a nightly backup program to back up that array to my 2tb. Hmm. Any advice on backup programs?

I run linux on my server, so I just write a simple bash script and schedule that via crontab whenever I need to backup something on a schedule.

 

For the very brief time I was running windows, I was using the Microsoft SyncToy2.1. It was free, didn't really have any fancy features, but I could schedule it and automate backups that way. Not sure if its still in use or deprecated or what. FreeFileSync also looks interesting...but I couldn't tell you if its just crap, or actually works.

[LIGISTX]

I run linux on my server, so I just write a simple bash script and schedule that via crontab whenever I need to backup something on a schedule.

 

For the very brief time I was running windows, I was using the Microsoft SyncToy2.1. It was free, didn't really have any fancy features, but I could schedule it and automate backups that way. Not sure if its still in use or deprecated or what. FreeFileSync also looks interesting...but I couldn't tell you if its just crap, or actually works.

Yea I used to use synctoy as well, still do for my parents daily backups to their little 2 TB nas box. It is a great free program, I will think about that. Still haven't looked into if my HTPC supports RAID 5, guess I will do that now.