Linux Challenge 2 pre-game

[PacketAuditor]

Just wanted to say RIP for Linus choosing PopOS (again), but more specifically at a time when Cosmic is just being shipped. Citing Nvidia drivers as a big decider when every single real distro ships with them. Ironically PopOS probably ships a somewhat old Nvidia driver. I'd love to see him try CachyOS, Nobara, or even Bazzite worst case. On KDE, not a brand new DE. I think CachyOS would be ideal, but maybe not the best choice for a wide audience since most users use native packages on Cachy via the terminal. Nobara is probably the most capable Windows replacement without touching too much terminal. 

Cosmic is brand new and exciting, but it's not ready for prime time. PopOS hasn't been in the gaming distro discourse in a LONG time. 

Any other Linux users a little disappointed that he didn't try another distro (yet)?

Edit: OMG Luke is trying CachyOS. Insane W.

[Timme]

wtf isn't there some universally good distro??

[PacketAuditor]

7 minutes ago, Timme said:

wtf isn't there some universally good distro??

lol.

Nobara KDE is the closest to a jack of all trades that won't immediately make you go into a terminal to install an application. CachyOS/Arch is my personal favorite, but every package/driver/library is bleeding edge so it is not ideal for beginners. 

Linus has been using Windows his whole life, but won't even Google the desktop environment he is using and see that it's extremely new and not mature yet. 

[Lurking]

41 minutes ago, PacketAuditor said:

Just wanted to say RIP for Linus choosing PopOS (again), but more specifically at a time when Cosmic is just being shipped. Citing Nvidia drivers as a big decider when every single real distro ships with them. Ironically PopOS probably ships a somewhat old Nvidia driver. I'd love to see him try CachyOS, Nobara, or even Bazzite worst case. On KDE, not a brand new DE. I think CachyOS would be ideal, but maybe not the best choice for a wide audience since most users use native packages on Cachy via the terminal. Nobara is probably the most capable Windows replacement without touching too much terminal. 

Cosmic is brand new and exciting, but it's not ready for prime time. PopOS hasn't been in the gaming distro discourse in a LONG time. 

Any other Linux users a little disappointed that he didn't try another distro (yet)?

Are you referring to this video? I actually agree with most the points they make. 

I mean, Pop-OS is very hyped these days and so is Cosmic. So it isn't a fault of a user to choose it. 

(Edit: i think Pop-OS was recommended a lot two weeks ago. Last week it was bazzite, this week it is CachyOS, next week it will be Nobara)

 

I never used it, but I have a natural aversion to Ubuntu LTS (an old dated distro) for new applications like games or newer dGPU. And Cosmic is new, and still incomplete and buggy. I saw Brodie Robertson's video about what they plan in Level 2 and 3, and I couldn't believe how many things are still missing. 

 

So yes, for games, what you propose may work better (proven KDE, and not an Ubuntu LTS clone). But again, I wouldn't blame Linus getting Pop-OS recommended. It seems anything that is based on Ubuntu LTS gets recommended a lot. Except Ubuntu LTS.

 

I'm not saying Ubuntu LTS is bad, it just isn't for new stuff. And if anyone needs Ubuntu LTS, why not just use that? No point in using forks. 

[Potatoes__]

6 hours ago, PacketAuditor said:

Nobara KDE is the closest to a jack of all trades that won't immediately make you go into a terminal to install an application.

Last time I tried Nobara they had a weird ass package manager app instead of regular Discover on KDE version, they changed that yet? Cus if they didn't I can't see how this stuff is much better than the cosmic horrors of using a Terminal once in a while.

Spoiler

These weird "gaming" forks of perfectly fine distros remind me of good ol times of modded pirate Windows XP installations 

6 hours ago, Timme said:

wtf isn't there some universally good distro??

Yes and no because each time someone says "hey X distro is good" others will pop up to say that "Y/Z/Q distro is also great". Truth is there are some distros that do not make much sense on a modern desktop, some forks solving god knows what problems, and some obscure ones that don't really suit regular users. All the others are just fine. Fedora is fine, Arch is fine, Mint is fine, Bazzite seems fine as a SteamOS-like concept. Pick any and you should be good, and if something's not it sure won't be fixed by putting some gamer sauce on it. It's just that Linus has a supernatural talent of choosing the wrong ones each time and breaking them in most unexpected ways.

 

And PopOS guys are really cheeky in a way that they present their new DE as stable enough in order to draw more user base to test it out while in actuality it's still raw. Can't even blame Linus in believing them.

[spelican]

7 hours ago, Timme said:

wtf isn't there some universally good distro??

For most people, you can pick between Linux Mint (stable and good, Cinnamon desktop) or Fedora (faster releases and better for newer hardware, option between GNOME and KDE Plasma). Those two are nice and easy for beginners to get into (though you do need to enable third-party proprietary repos for Fedora to use Nvidia drivers, Steam, and a couple other things)

 

As somebody else has said, Nobara is a gaming-centric fork of Fedora (never used it myself though). Bazzite sometimes appears as an option, but that's an "atomic" distro (meaning you can't mess with the system as much, which is both a good and bad thing, where it's less likely for you to bork the installation but there are a few restrictions on what kind of stuff you can do to the system)

 

If you like tinkering and customising and are experienced with Linux, command line, that sort, then Arch-based distros are good too. I use EndeavourOS, but I know many people like CachyOS (which has gaming-centric performance optimisations)

[Justaphysicsnerd]

Welp, apologies but imma sorta hijack this thread to say something directly to Mr.TechTips in case he is reading this (or if Dan the man brings it to his attention or something)

Dear Mr.TechTips

I know you must have seen so many comments, posts and memes making fun of your choice or ranting about your choice of Pop OS. I would like to encourage you to try another distro be it Cachy OS (the one Luke is using) or Fedora/Fedora derivatives like Nobara or the good old Ubuntu or Linux Mint. I understand that you might have believed Pop OS is still a good option and I get that with the cornucopia of linux distros out there it can be difficult to keep up. But just to summarize, System 76 devs are working on their new desktop environment, which is still very premature, as such we all would reccomend staying away from that for now. I would like for you to experience the true potential of Linux for gaming, heck you could even load steam os on your pc!

Also another suggestion for future/next edition of Linux gaming challenge: have more than just yourself and Luke do it, like at least 5-6 people. Because of the variety of Linux, it can be difficult for just the two of you to explore everything there is available out there. I for one have switched to Linux for more than a year now and not only do all my games run smoothly on an Nvidia GPU laptop but also all the proprietary CAD apps I need as an engineering student.

Hoping you will keep going forward with the Linux Challenge

Someone who mentioned you as their inspiration in their essay for admission into Engineering school
 

[Mina G]

10 hours ago, Lurking said:

Are you referring to this video? I actually agree with most the points they make. 

I mean, Pop-OS is very hyped these days and so is Cosmic. So it isn't a fault of a user to choose it. 

(Edit: i think Pop-OS was recommended a lot two weeks ago. Last week it was bazzite, this week it is CachyOS, next week it will be Nobara)

 

I never used it, but I have a natural aversion to Ubuntu LTS (an old dated distro) for new applications like games or newer dGPU. And Cosmic is new, and still incomplete and buggy. I saw Brodie Robertson's video about what they plan in Level 2 and 3, and I couldn't believe how many things are still missing. 

 

So yes, for games, what you propose may work better (proven KDE, and not an Ubuntu LTS clone). But again, I wouldn't blame Linus getting Pop-OS recommended. It seems anything that is based on Ubuntu LTS gets recommended a lot. Except Ubuntu LTS.

 

I'm not saying Ubuntu LTS is bad, it just isn't for new stuff. And if anyone needs Ubuntu LTS, why not just use that? No point in using forks. 

 

i like the photo so true and that's why i agree with the others poo_os is bad choice it doesn't serve any purpose other that a distro that they put on their laptop and that's fine for them but to any other person it doesn't have a purpose i believe tuxedo doing something similar so they can put there patches for their laptops but the difference i think they didn't do too much customization just the optimization patches for their laptops although personally i would prefer a repo on top of known distro like ubuntu and call it a day 

 

10 hours ago, PacketAuditor said:

Any other Linux users a little disappointed that he didn't try another distro (yet)?

yes i was dissapointed  for both actually i didn't like luke choice too.

the last challenge lukle experience was reasonable because he have chosen  mint i am wondering what will happen this challenge.

 

and even the reasons

chacvhyOS because it's trendy and because steamos made from arch !!!  

that doesn't mean you will be able to maintain arch like valve do 

and because pop_os have the NVIDIA drivers !! 

any big distro has wiki page dedicated to how install NVIDIA drivers i believe ubunto and mint have GUI for it

 

of course i can't blame them but i can't say i am not dissapointed 

 

 

and to be clear there is no right choice it's just the reasons that make me frustrated

if you're software developer and you're technical  enough to maintain it  arch makes sense to be on the edge with great flexibility

if you are regular user with modern hardware fedora or ubunto interm release or maybe nobara is good

if you use old hardware ubunto LTS , mint and debian could be good for you

if you use servers or home lab rocky Linux or opensue leap

if you want rolling distro and reasonable middle ground opensuse slowroll or debian testing could be for you 

there is honorable mentions like bazzite or KDE linux (still in alpha don't use it ) if you want the most safe and limited experience 

every thing depend on the reasons

 

my biggest problem 

they are not small. a lot of people would follow there reasoning and that's what make me  very dissapointed 

i really would love if they would make someone from labs comment and correct there mistakes afterword that would be a very good learning experience 

i know there is Linux YouTuber who corrected them on some of the mistakes  but they don't have the reach LTT has beside of course other youtuber would try to be gentle but if someone from ltt done it it would be more effective and would be a great service to the  people who watch it

you had fun and learned something 

[PacketAuditor]

3 hours ago, Potatoes__ said:

Last time I tried Nobara they had a weird ass package manager app instead of regular Discover on KDE version, they changed that yet? Cus if they didn't I can't see how this stuff is much better than the cosmic horrors of using a Terminal once in a while.

Nobara KDE ships with Discover enabled by default. The reason I like it is because it ships KDE, Discover, Wayland, isn't rolling release, but isn't out of date.

Probably objectively the best choice for Linus in this situation. But Arch/Cachy/EOS has my heart.

[PacketAuditor]

2 hours ago, spelican said:

Linux Mint (stable and good, Cinnamon desktop)

Mint is outdated, especially Cinnamon. Wouldn't recommend it to many people, especially a gamer or power user. 

50 minutes ago, Mina G said:

KDE linux (still in alpha don't use it )

lol what...

Edit: Oh you mean the Distro, not DE. Yeah, true. 

[Potatoes__]

19 minutes ago, PacketAuditor said:

Nobara KDE ships with Discover enabled by default.

Not sure about that at least judging by this thread, but that was 6 months ago. My point being that the process of software installation/updates is an already complicated topic for Linux newbies. Adding this weird thing with different package managers for different sources and purposes on top of that seems proper weird if it claims to be aiming for a "more user friendly and gamer focused Linux experience".

 

Like I'm not trying to dunk on you or your distro of choice, just that Nobara confuses me. It seems like the only thing it does is having a custom KDE theme, a few apps pre-installed and having some changes to the update process (with dubious benefits for the user and added headaches with package management mentioned above). Ironically, Fedora in a hat. Maybe I got something wrong?

[PacketAuditor]

45 minutes ago, Potatoes__ said:

Not sure about that at least judging by this thread, but that was 6 months ago. My point being that the process of software installation/updates is an already complicated topic for Linux newbies. Adding this weird thing with different package managers for different sources and purposes on top of that seems proper weird if it claims to be aiming for a "more user friendly and gamer focused Linux experience".

 

Like I'm not trying to dunk on you or your distro of choice, just that Nobara confuses me. It seems like the only thing it does is having a custom KDE theme, a few apps pre-installed and having some changes to the update process (with dubious benefits for the user and added headaches with package management mentioned above). Ironically, Fedora in a hat. Maybe I got something wrong?

Given that Linus’ main reason for choosing a distro is NVIDIA drivers, Nobara is probably a better choice than Fedora because Fedora ships Nouveau out of the box, and you have to install the proprietary NVIDIA driver via RPM Fusion if you want a current driver. Nobara offers an NVIDIA ISO and is generally more newcomer-friendly.

Believe me, I wish Linus would put even a grain of effort into learning Linux instead of expecting it to be Windows. That’s just setting yourself up for disappointment. It would be great if we saw an LTT Linux video closer to PewDiePie’s, where he actually spends a little time learning how to use a rolling release distro and a package manager. That doesn’t inherently clash with his Windows using audience. They can simply take PewDiePie’s approach and explain things in simple terms, comparing them to Windows and pointing out advantages and disadvantages, etc.

It's not ready to replace every Windows install, might not be for another decade, if ever. But it's definitely ready to replace a lot of Windows installations, especially technical users. They need to accept that reality. 

We have had plenty of “Linux challenges.” Where is the “Learning Linux challenge”? Instead of "Wow, this is so buggy, Linux is buggy!", what about spending two minutes learning why you are having that experience. 

[Mina G]

1 hour ago, PacketAuditor said:

Believe me, I wish Linus would put even a grain of effort into learning Linux instead of expecting it to be Windows. That’s just setting yourself up for disappointment. It would be great if we saw an LTT Linux video closer to PewDiePie’s, where he actually spends a little time learning how to use a rolling release distro and a package manager. That doesn’t inherently clash with his Windows using audience. They can simply take PewDiePie’s approach and explain things in simple terms, comparing them to Windows and pointing out advantages and disadvantages, etc.

exactly you can't approach Linux with windows mindset it's a whole different beast with completely different architecture and that's why i hate the premise  of this challenge i was talking about it on another thread  they set bad expectation for people who watch them you can't treat Linux like windows 

 

actually any one who doesn't learn Linux wouldn't be able to use it for very long, they will eventually get frustrated and switch which understandable 

 

and unfortunately that's a trend these days i miss the days that you had to read 80 page manual to operate a coffee machine i imagine if said to anybody to read 80 page of something he/she would faint 

now people want every thing  without much thinking about it and i see that in every thing any device or tool people try to use it without trying to read the manual and understand how to operate it or maintain it or worse would go to chatgpt to tell them information that most likely wouldn't be true for their exact tool or model ... maybe i am getting old 

[Ha-Satan]

13 hours ago, Timme said:

wtf isn't there some universally good distro??

Honestly for beginners there are really only two options you need to consider:

 

For old computers with lower-res displays and old/low-end hardware: Mint XFCE

 

For new computers with recent hardware and/or a high-res and/or VRR display: Fedora KDE

 

These are both great distros that are easy to use out of the box, have sensible defaults, and have a long history of being properly supported by their respective dev teams.

[PacketAuditor]

22 minutes ago, Ha-Satan said:

For old computers with lower-res displays and old/low-end hardware: Mint XFCE

There are a lot of options in this case. 

 

22 minutes ago, Ha-Satan said:

For new computers with recent hardware and/or a high-res and/or VRR display: Fedora KDE

Maybe if Fedora shipped the latest Nvidia driver by default. And ideally had Flathub enabled by default, but I get why that's not always the best compromise. 

The idea of a universally good distro is a bit strange. Windows isn't even universally good for all applications. 

[Ha-Satan]

25 minutes ago, PacketAuditor said:

Maybe if Fedora shipped the latest Nvidia driver by default. And ideally had Flathub enabled by default, but I get why that's not always the best compromise. 

I understand that perspective but personally it's not what I would want. 

 

IMO the most important aspect of a distro in terms of making it good for noobs is that the distro has widespread use and a long history of good support. That ensures that, if you have problems, you have the best chance of finding the right solution for your distro. In my experience, most people who switch to Linux are anticipating having to do a little bit of configuring and usually doing small things like enabling Flathub are not actually a big stumbling block. However, not being able to find resources that pertain to your particular distro can be a big problem.

 

I personally haven't found a distro that ships with the latest Nvidia drivers that meets my criteria and I feel comfortable recommending to a total noob.

[PacketAuditor]

15 minutes ago, Ha-Satan said:

IMO the most important aspect of a distro in terms of making it good for noobs is that the distro has widespread use and a long history of good support.

I don't disagree.

 

15 minutes ago, Ha-Satan said:

In my experience, most people who switch to Linux are anticipating having to do a little bit of configuring and usually doing small things like enabling Flathub are not actually a big stumbling block.

Well in that case, Linus isn't "most people" lol.

 

16 minutes ago, Ha-Satan said:

I personally haven't found a distro that ships with the latest Nvidia drivers that meets my criteria and I feel comfortable recommending to a total noob.

Yeah, it’s difficult. Generally, distros that are more suitable for a total noob aren’t as huge as Fedora, Debian, or Arch. But derivatives exist with enough users that it’s a non-issue, especially since these distros (Nobara, EOS, CachyOS) can usually be troubleshooted by searching using the parent distro. Or the issue isn’t even distro specific.

[Ha-Satan]

3 minutes ago, PacketAuditor said:

Well in that case, Linus isn't "most people" lol.

 

To be totally honest I feel like Linus (at least in the first Linux challenge) tried too hard to do it "like a normie." 

 

In the discussion about the adoption of desktop Linux beyond the hardcore fans like me, it seems like we've missed a step. The next logical step for Linux on the desktop doesn't need to be courting people who have little to no tech background. Rather, it should be courting people who are already a bit tech-savvy, but just haven't tried Linux. I'm talking about users who maybe have built a PC before, regularly watch tech channels like LTT, and perhaps post on a forum like this one.

 

Those people are already tech-savvy enough that they should be OK doing something like enabling Flathub on a distro that doesn't come with it by default. Like I've said elsewhere, I'm confident that essentially everyone on this forum could use Linux without major problems with only a little effort. (I'm not saying they could run everything or completely replicate their Windows/Mac workflow, just that they could use Linux generally without encountering major resistance.)

 

There's a wide gulf of potential Linux users between the gigachad Linux superuser who runs Gentoo on his Thinkpad X220 and, I dunno, your grandma or (insert stereotypical non-tech-savvy person here).

 

25 minutes ago, PacketAuditor said:

But derivatives exist with enough users that it’s a non-issue, especially since these distros (Nobara, EOS, CachyOS) can usually be troubleshooted by searching using the parent distro.

I feel like I've only heard bad things recently about Nobara and EOS, but I haven't tried either one so that's just secondhand info. CachyOS seems great and I have actually briefly tried it, but it's still pretty new, which makes me hesitate just a little bit.

[PacketAuditor]

Well said. 
 

24 minutes ago, Ha-Satan said:

I feel like I've only heard bad things recently about Nobara and EOS, but I haven't tried either one so that's just secondhand info. CachyOS seems great and I have actually briefly tried it, but it's still pretty new, which makes me hesitate just a little bit.

I've had good experience with EOS and CachyOS. Though I've never tried Nobara, I have heard good things from my friends. The only reason I ever recommend Nobara is because there are a lot of people who will throw their hands in the air if they need to learn basic pacman syntax.

[Lurking]

8 hours ago, PacketAuditor said:

Nobara offers an NVIDIA ISO and is generally more newcomer-friendly.

Believe me, I wish Linus would put even a grain of effort into learning Linux instead of expecting it to be Windows. That’s just setting yourself up for disappointment. It would be great if we saw an LTT Linux video closer to PewDiePie’s, where he actually spends a little time learning how to use a rolling release distro and a package manager. That doesn’t inherently clash with his Windows using audience. They can simply take PewDiePie’s approach and explain things in simple terms, comparing them to Windows and pointing out advantages and disadvantages, etc.

Pop_OS made the exact same promise as Nobara. and Linuxtubers hailed ita s the THE gaming distro (the same Linuxtubers that now hail Nobara, or Bazzite...) Can't blame Linus or any other new user for trying it. And I also think Linus trying Pop OS after 4 years was a good way to show how a distro improved over that time. 

 

LTT does LTT stuff. If you want Linus do the PewDiePie approach, watch PewDiePie. We don't need clones of Youtubers. Lius represented a lot of gamers/newbies/tech poeople: generally interested, smart, but not ready to get a CS degree to use an OS that every Linuxtubers advertises as "simple as Windows". 

 

An OS should be self-explanatory. i didn't need to learn smartphone or Windows before using them. 

 

7 hours ago, Mina G said:

and unfortunately that's a trend these days i miss the days that you had to read 80 page manual to operate a coffee machine i imagine if said to anybody to read 80 page of something he/she would faint 

now people want every thing  without much thinking about it and i see that in every thing any device or tool people try to use it without trying to read the manual and understand how to operate it or maintain it or worse would go to chatgpt to tell them information that most likely wouldn't be true for their exact tool or model ... maybe i am getting old 

I never saw an old coffeemachine requiring any manual. And newer ones with IOT likely have a self-guided process. Long time ago i worked at Starbucks and learning to make EVERY single drink is much less than 80 pages. If a Linux user should enjoy reading 80-page manuals, that would explain the under 3% market share. 

ironically Linux fans tell windows users to leave Windows because of AI. And the same people then tell those noobs, to use AI to use Linux. Oh, the irony. Leave an OS one could learn even before internet, to go to one that requires AI. i agree, AI (or any source) should be verified. At minimum any advice can relate to a different distro. 

7 hours ago, Ha-Satan said:

Honestly for beginners there are really only two options you need to consider:

 

For old computers with lower-res displays and old/low-end hardware: Mint XFCE

 

For new computers with recent hardware and/or a high-res and/or VRR display: Fedora KDE

 

These are both great distros that are easy to use out of the box, have sensible defaults, and have a long history of being properly supported by their respective dev teams.

+1. forget all forks of forks. And I don't know if you mean extremely old hardware. I have 10 year old PCs, but use dule 4k monitors. So fractional scaling is a must. May I present MX Linux KDE as an addition? That also is relatively light weight, but uses Wayland and fractional scaling. Even easier to use than Mint, IMHO. They also have XFCE and Fluxbox for extremely low power PC. Based on Debian, but has newer Kernels etc. (AHS - Advanced hardware Support). IME, better hardware support than Mint. And definitely Fedora KDE for the reasons you state. 

6 hours ago, Ha-Satan said:

IMO the most important aspect of a distro in terms of making it good for noobs is that the distro has widespread use and a long history of good support. That ensures that, if you have problems, you have the best chance of finding the right solution for your distro. In my experience, most people who switch to Linux are anticipating having to do a little bit of configuring and usually doing small things like enabling Flathub are not actually a big stumbling block. However, not being able to find resources that pertain to your particular distro can be a big problem.

 

I personally haven't found a distro that ships with the latest Nvidia drivers that meets my criteria and I feel comfortable recommending to a total noob.

+1, avoid small distros, or the distro of the week. 

 

To be fair, if I buy a PC from Dell, or best buy, i expect drivers installed and it working, but i also know, it isn't the latest BIOS, drivers etc. and I should update them. I wouldn't ding a distro just because the driver is a bit older as long as it has an easy process to get the correct driver. 

5 hours ago, Ha-Satan said:

To be totally honest I feel like Linus (at least in the first Linux challenge) tried too hard to do it "like a normie." 

 

Those people are already tech-savvy enough that they should be OK doing something like enabling Flathub on a distro that doesn't come with it by default. Like I've said elsewhere, I'm confident that essentially everyone on this forum could use Linux without major problems with only a little effort. (I'm not saying they could run everything or completely replicate their Windows/Mac workflow, just that they could use Linux generally without encountering major resistance.)

 

There's a wide gulf of potential Linux users between the gigachad Linux superuser who runs Gentoo on his Thinkpad X220 and, I dunno, your grandma or (insert stereotypical non-tech-savvy person here).

But normies watch it and are the next ones to try Linux. "computer people" already use Linux, or looked into it, or researched other sources. Also remember, LTT is entertainment, it doesn't claim to be Wendell. At Level 1Tech, you learn from Wendell. At LTT you learn WITH Linus. Linus basically goes through it like many of us.

 

And grandma would just use Linux, not set it up. and she would be better served with a Chromebook or iPad anyway. Grandma isn't watching LTT and then installs Nobara hoping her AAA games run well. 

 

i don't know how many of the LTT audience is on this forum. and not everyone on this forum could use Linux. i bet LTT audience is more than just people who already researched Linux. And all critique Linus had for Linux in general, or Pop-OS specifically, seemed justified from the point of a user that was told it will be easy. 

 

The disconnect is, all Linuxtubers make it sound easy, and then in reality, here people say "you have to learn". This may be true. But then please adjust the advertisement where the word "easy" is used a LOT. The typical Linux YT video basically goes: "Mint is better than Windows, you don't need CLI, all games work, GIMP is better than Photoshop, If you still use Windows - you have been brainwashed". Well, make a distro that delivers what was promised.... 

[PacketAuditor]

4 minutes ago, Lurking said:

Linuxtubers advertises as "simple as Windows". 

Literally nobody says this. 

 

4 minutes ago, Lurking said:

i didn't need to learn smartphone or Windows before using them. 

You literally did. 

 

5 minutes ago, Lurking said:

Linux fans tell windows users to leave Windows because of AI

You mean Copilot and other bloat? That's definitely one of many reasons people switch. 

 

 

[Lurking]

21 minutes ago, PacketAuditor said:

You literally did. 

I didn't need to learn anything BEFOREHAND or from books. Learning to use it was intuitive and possible without Internet. My first PC was W95. I had never used a PC when the W95 PC arrived. I hooked it up, turned it on, and was able to do quite a bit without asking anyone. The only thing I wasn't able to figure out on my own, was there was a 640kB limit (even when I had 4MB or so) and a friend helped me set up a script to move some stuff out of the 640kB for games. This definitely is something I would have to use Google/AI to figure out if it was today. But that was in 1997 or so and obviously Windows is much better now. But in Linux, you run into such issues constantly and they are NOT intuitive to resolve and you still need to google/AI/visit forums to resolve all the little things. 

[Mina G]

9 hours ago, Lurking said:

I never saw an old coffeemachine requiring any manual. And newer ones with IOT likely have a self-guided process. Long time ago i worked at Starbucks and learning to make EVERY single drink is much less than 80 pages. If a Linux user should enjoy reading 80-page manuals, that would explain the under 3% market share. 

it was a metaphor i don't remember exactly the page numbers but the point stil stand 

i see that around me a lot and the only thing i would say most of thw situtions i see  could have been mitigated if somone read the manual 

 

 

9 hours ago, Lurking said:

I didn't need to learn anything BEFOREHAND or from books. Learning to use it was intuitive and possible without Internet. My first PC was W95. I had never used a PC when the W95 PC arrived. I hooked it up, turned it on, and was able to do quite a bit without asking anyone. The only thing I wasn't able to figure out on my own, was there was a 640kB limit (even when I had 4MB or so) and a friend helped me set up a script to move some stuff out of the 640kB for games. This definitely is something I would have to use Google/AI to figure out if it was today. But that was in 1997 or so and obviously Windows is much better now. But in Linux, you run into such issues constantly and they are NOT intuitive to resolve and you still need to google/AI/visit forums to resolve all the little things. 

i completely respect the trail and error learning style however

in the last challenge i don't think Linus learned anything by switching to manjaro he simply avoided the problem and if he used manjaro for more than 30 days i am sure he would found a good amount of bugs beside he escaped pop_os package manager to use manjaro (arch based) !!!

 

honestly i can't imagine someone using any arch based distro without having to learn the package manager because no matter how good the GUI is i am sure he will need it beside the arch upgrades is big and it's always good to see the output and see if there errors or something need you intervention

 

i think he would have learned more if he tried to learn the package manger at least the basic how to install and pin packages and uninstall would have been enough 

 

of course learning isn't the objective it's the entertainment

it's just that not the beginner experience for any one who want to use Linux and want to give it a fair shot 

 

there is big difference between "i will play with but i won't take seriously (what linus do)" and "i want to try to use this os i will try to learn it as little as possible to use it and see how far i can go with it" 

 

[PacketAuditor]

13 hours ago, Lurking said:

I didn't need to learn anything BEFOREHAND

Uhh, same? I installed it and started learning.
 

13 hours ago, Lurking said:

Learning to use it was intuitive and possible without Internet. My first PC was W95. I had never used a PC when the W95 PC arrived. I hooked it up, turned it on, and was able to do quite a bit without asking anyone. The only thing I wasn't able to figure out on my own, was there was a 640kB limit (even when I had 4MB or so) and a friend helped me set up a script to move some stuff out of the 640kB for games. This definitely is something I would have to use Google/AI to figure out if it was today. But that was in 1997 or so and obviously Windows is much better now. But in Linux, you run into such issues constantly and they are NOT intuitive to resolve and you still need to google/AI/visit forums to resolve all the little things. 

You miss this part?

23 hours ago, PacketAuditor said:

It's not ready to replace every Windows install, might not be for another decade, if ever. But it's definitely ready to replace a lot of Windows installations, especially technical users.

 

[Ha-Satan]

18 minutes ago, PacketAuditor said:

You miss this part?

There's no sense trying to argue with that poster. They accuse Linux enthusiasts of being liars who don't actually use Linux for [insert use case here], and they vastly overstate the difficulty of using Linux. Lurking is a pretty good troll because they wrap their trolling in a lot of fairly reasonable points, but if you look through their post history it's quite clear that they are actually acting maliciously and not in good faith (i.e., repeatedly accusing "Linux youtubers" of being shills who are lying about the difficulty of using Linux).

 

Just put them on ignore.