Upgrading CPU and GPU

[Halbo]

My current CPU and GPU is gta 650ti 2gb oc edition and fx 6300 I was wondering how much I would have to upgrade if at all I was thinking about watch dogs not sure how it runs or how it is as I haven't done much research on it, the other game was BF4 apparently it's fantastic?

Yes, I know I'll have to upgrade for bf4.

Thanks

[Faa]

A 6300 performs exactly the same as a 8350 in BF4/WD. You can fill a single 780 to 99% easily but two cards not nor can 3930K's do this. Get something like a R9 290 theyre just 300 or 350$ currently.

[WyvernAbstracts]

just spend cash on gpu if you don't video edit. 

[TechFan@ic]

Really depends on your budget. Both Watch Dogs & BF4 scale very well from the FX 6300 to the 8350, so that would be a very good way to go. A good alternative would be the 8320 which is an underclocked version of the 8320 but can still be overclocked to match the 8350 or even a 9370.

For BF4 you won't need a very beefy GPU. Something like a $170 R9 270 will run the game perfectly fine on ultra settings at 1080p with Mantle.
For Watchdogs you will want to consider something a bit more powerful and has more memory. To run Ultra textures you will need at least 3GB of memory at 1080p so something like an R9 280 or 280X would be perfect. If you have more money to spend then an R9 290 is the way to go.

[Faa]

Really depends on your budget. Both Watch Dogs & BF4 scale very well from the FX 6300 to the 8350, so that would be a very good way to go. A good alternative would be the 8320 which is an underclocked version of the 8320 but can still be overclocked to match the 8350 or even a 9370.

For godsake, are you joking orwhat? He's going to be GPU bound with his 6300 with any card he can afford. Do you really think he's going to buy a R9 295x2 or the ares 2?

You called me that I'm utterly misinformed blabla or I'm a massive Intel fanboy, yet you realize that he's going to be mainly gpu limited and you recommend him to upgrade his cpu to a 8350 when he doesnt need it. I haven't even told him to swap to Intel. Learn more about cpu/gpu bottlenecking in depth.

[TechFan@ic]

For godsake, are you joking orwhat? He's going to be GPU bound with his 6300 with any card he can afford. Do you really think he's going to buy a R9 295x2 or the ares 2?

You called me that I'm utterly misinformed blabla or I'm a massive Intel fanboy, yet you realize that he's going to be mainly gpu limited and you recommend him to upgrade his cpu to a 8350 when he doesnt need it. I haven't even told him to swap to Intel. Learn more about cpu/gpu bottlenecking in depth.

Ahh... I think you're the one that should be doing more reading.

The 8320 will be faster than the 6300 in games not only because of the additional cores but also due to the additional floating point unit. Also having an additional module means that the game can load 4 cores rather 3 before resource sharing between cores begins. This significantly improves IPC.

linustechtips.com/main/topic/48571-intel-amd-architectural-discussion-how-far-ahead-intel-really-is/

So we can see scaling even with a single R9 270. And that's why we also see scaling with Mantle because if the game wasn't CPU bound we wouldn't have seen much if any performance improvement with Mantle (in the case of the 4770K)

[i_build_nanosuits]

Thief is single-threaded and it does perform better on intel its build upon the age old UNREAL engine...watch dogs the benchmarks show up there are complete utter bullshit 43-51 FPS for the FX-8350 with an ARES is BS i can tell you i get better framerates than this with a single GTX 780.

 

BUT techfan is right about the 4th module allowing the CPU to perform better even in task loads that only require 3 or 4 main threads...i've proven this already.

[MaverickAsh]

You should upgrade ypur gpu first to a r9 280x or r9 290 or gtx 760 or gtx 780 . Upgrading ur gpu will give you more preice to performance ratio than upgrading your cpu to another one as the current cpu you have is not very good but decent for modern games at mid-high pared with a good gpu 

[MaverickAsh]

You should upgrade ypur gpu first to a r9 280x or r9 290 or gtx 760 or gtx 780 . Upgrading ur gpu will give you more preice to performance ratio than upgrading your cpu to another one as the current cpu you have is not very good but decent for modern games at mid-high pared with a good gpu 

or you could wait for a bit and buy a r9 280x or r9 290 and fx 8320

[i_build_nanosuits]

or you could wait for a bit and buy a r9 280x or r9 290 and fx 8320

The FX-6300 is good enough to feed any of these GPU's all day long in most modern games, i would indeed upgrade the GPU and then if CPU is bottlenecking in some of the games you play i would get the needed hardware to overclock the hell out of it.

[Faa]

Ahh... I think you're the one that should be doing more reading.

O really last time you said haswell has only a 15% IPC improvement over a nehalem: http://linustechtips.com/main/topic/158364-deciding-to-upgrade-cpu-mobo/#entry2110863

 

The 8320 will be faster than the 6300 in games not only because of the additional cores but also due to the additional floating point unit. Also having an additional module means that the game can load 4 cores rather 3 before resource sharing between cores begins. This significantly improves IPC.

 

And no IPC doesnt improve significantly especially if the engine is based on 2 threads and you can't execute 2 threads on more than 2 cores at a time. And no BF4 applies load to all cores all the time so all fpu's are shared between the 2 cores in a module. You wasted like 500 hours for your arcticle and you still can't manage to provide correct information.

 

So we can see scaling even with a single R9 270. And that's why we also see scaling with Mantle because if the game wasn't CPU bound we wouldn't have seen much if any performance improvement with Mantle (in the case of the 4770K)

If you can't link a proper source, then don't attempt to. A 270 running at 99% with a 4300 orsomething, any better cpu can't make a difference because theyre not rendering your frames. A 270 can be filled to 99% with 1 core on my 3930K so I'm not seeing why the hell a 4300 wouldn't push a 270 to 99%. Ask owners who have this card & gpu.

[i_build_nanosuits]

If you can't link a proper source, then don't attempt to. A 270 running at 99% with a 4300 orsomething, any better cpu can't make a difference because theyre not rendering your frames. A 270 can be filled to 99% with 1 core on my 3930K so I'm not seeing why the hell a 4300 wouldn't push a 270 to 99%. Ask owners who have this card & gpu.

This is correct for 99% of the games out there, i ran my FX 8 core with 2 modules disabled @ 4ghz to see how it does and i must admit in ALL the games that i've tried i was getting 90 to 99% load on a GTX 780 OVERCLOCKED to the bone...including in BF4...but i havnt tried it yet in watch dogs and i will not cause honestly the game is sluggish at times even with 8 cores at 4.6ghz i hardly get 50-55FPS average...soooo...yeah!

 

Also i'm not sure if having 4 modules instead of 3 would improve IPC i would highly doubt it i havn't tested that but i know for a fact the 4 modules performs better in a quad-threaded tasks as oppose to 3 modules even though we would think ''technicaly'' the FX-6300 is a 6core CPU those ''cores'' work really better in pairs so having 4 modules will benefit anything that uses 4 threads or more greatly...not only 6 or 8 threads are much better but 4-5 threads as well...3-2-1 threads the same.

[Faa]

This is correct for 99% of the games out there, i ran my FX 8 core with 2 modules disabled @ 4ghz to see how it does and i must admit in ALL the games that i've tried i was getting 90 to 99% load on a GTX 780 OVERCLOCKED to the bone...including in BF4...but i havnt tried it yet in watch dogs and i will not cause honestly the game is sluggish at times even with 8 cores at 4.6ghz i hardly get 50-55FPS average...soooo...yeah!

Why do you think I call 3930K's shit cpu's? I would have more fps with a 4670k at 5GHz than with this cpu. All my games are heavily cpu bound and I don't play BF4 anymore since they screwed sniping up. I have most of the time 2 cores & HT off and bump it to 4.8GHz. If they price a 3930K the same as a 4790k I wouldn't advice people to get the 3930K, the majority will disagree with me but some 3930K owners would agree. Some of my friends sold their 3930K for 250 or 300eur to get a haswell i5 or i7 lol because they were nothing with its cores and they needed IPC.

[i_build_nanosuits]

Why do you think I call 3930K's shit cpu's? I would have more fps with a 4670k at 5GHz than with this cpu. All my games are heavily cpu bound and I don't play BF4 anymore since they screwed sniping up. I have most of the time 2 cores & HT off and bump it to 4.8GHz. If they price a 3930K the same as a 4790k I wouldn't advice people to get the 3930K, the majority will disagree with me but some 3930K owners would agree. Some of my friends sold their 3930K for 250 or 300eur to get a haswell i5 or i7 lol because they were nothing with its cores and they needed IPC.

yeah but with AMD it's different the cores work in pairs more like HT is doing on intel so the FX-6300 being 3 modules for example would work more like a 3cores HT i7 (much weaker than i7 yes i know it's not the point) so you need 4 modules (8 ''cores'') to have somewhat best perfomance with quad-threaded tasks like gaming...the FX-6300 is not only slower with 6 threads or more it is also slower with 4 threads processing. But still for gaming it does pretty well and will continu to do so for a while it's good enough for 99% of the games even with high end cards as i mentionned already.

[Faa]

yeah but with AMD it's different the cores work in pairs more like HT is doing on intel so the FX-6300 being 3 modules for example would work more like a 3cores HT i7 (much weaker than i7 yes i know it's not the point) so you need 4 modules (8 ''cores'') to have somewhat best perfomance with quad-threaded tasks like gaming...the FX-6300 is not only slower with 6 threads or more it is also slower with 4 threads processing. But still for gaming it does pretty well and will continu to do so for a while it's good enough for 99% of the games even with high end cards as i mentionned already.

- SMT = HT allowing multiple threads being executed on a single core at the same time. Multiple = two here. Without HT, lets say we have a instruction of "5+2" + "5/2" - so one goes into your ALU (integer) which takes a cycle and the other one goes into your FP and requires a cycle too. Basically it will take the cpu two cycles to finish that instruction. Intel thought why not within a single cycle? HT came to life and did that within a single cycle that gives you a 100% gain (in reality it's toooo rare to see this happen). Requires atleast 2 software threads to make this happen. With one software thread = no gain and HT wont even work.

- CMT Clustered something multithreading = Basically two core sharing some assets, executing multiple threads on multiple execution engines (most of the time independently). Multiple means two again and two integer cores and they share a 256 bit FP. Singlethreaded you just get a 256bit FP, once you kick a 2nd thread in the same module each integer core gets a 128bit FP that can run independetly. This architecture is currently only on amd's bulldozers/vishera.

- SMP symmetric multithreading nothing hard just more cores. Works in co with SMT/CMT. Not sure why people thought amd is going back to SMT, actually theyre dropping CMT and going back to where they were with phenoms: SMP. 

Saying amd's 6300 works like HT is somewhat wrong and somewhat right but technically it's wrong. Also this is why the 8350 was a true 8 core.

What people just dont want to understand is; you want to have your gpu at 99% so you know your cpu isn't a bottleneck at that point no cpu upgrade would make a difference and when you're cpu limited no gpu upgrade would make a difference. A 270 is a 7870 right? A 6950 unlocked and overclocked to 1000MHz performs the same and I'm pretty sure I've seen in many games my 6950 at 99% with a Q9550 at stock. For those games my 2600K upgrade it didnt make any difference but in mmo's the difference was huge. Most benchmarks you see these days are all flawed, not providing the gpu loads you probably noticed in many games that the gpu fluctuates heavily between 95-99 thats just the gpu's performance variation and that has nothing to do with the cpu - and they all put the 3930K on purpose on top adding 0,1 fps more than the 4770K just to avoid getting criticism. Avoid benchmarks, theyre useless these days instead youtube actual gameplay and if they provide the gpu load ignore benchmarks complety. I'm only checking the cinebench singlethreaded performance and I know how to find out how many cores I need - perfect to make my conclusions for myself which cpu would suit me the best.